Hello to Hope and everyone else:
Your point about bad health being the cause of certain problems re. recovery and not being just the effect of the abuse is very interesting (if I have restated your thoughts wrongly, please let me know). Clear thinking is important in recovery. We need to regain critical thinking and perspective. This is work, and like muscles, they atrophied thru lack of exercise. Long-term abuse of any kind causes us to [i:c68da77412]dis-integrate[/i:c68da77412]. Anything, inc. health conditions, diet, etc. that affects clear-thinking certainly needs to be taken care of. Someone once wrote regarding the spiritual life, and I paraphrase here: if you are tired and your spiritual life seems to be lacking, go catch up on your sleep. Sometimes we overlook the obvious, don't we?

Well said Terry.

In order to forgive, one must be aware of how they were offended/wronged/violated, etc. This is often the "sifting" process that you described.

The other aspect of forgiveness, at least Biblical forgiveness, is that we must go to the person who offended and confront them. As many of you know, Matthew 18 is one place where this idea is developed in the Bible.

We do not ever excuse abuse. The abuser never gets a pass, especially when they won't admit their fault. Forgiveness and excusing, or tolerance, is quite different.

There is a great pair of articles on this at:

[www.withchrist.org] and [www.withchrist.org]

Brent

Hi Terry, Brent, and Others.
Boy, there is some great advice re. a very difficult subject here. I agree that we are all different and as such will have a different explanation for our entrance into the groups' we were involved with. I was looking for a group that matched my great enthusiasm re. serving God; the Leader of the group used my zeal to serve His own self serving goals. Who was more responsible? The Assembly seemed to be a perfect fit to my prideful desires and yet I was earnestly seeking to serve God and not the designs of a despot.
As a Christian I believe that God allowed my entrance into the group to change me into a better person. I was totally unaware of the pride in my heart and saw it as a pure desire to serve God. I also was unaware of the true nature of the grace of God. I not suggesting that I have attained Nirvana yet, but I am a much wiser person for having experienced the Assembly.
Of course it is possible to be in such a group and leave and learn nothing. I think it is essential to take the time to think through one's involvement honestly. Healing grace comes to a life when faced with the reality of our own personal failure. Wisdom comes in recognizing how much God really cares about his wounded pilgrims and what the power of his Holy Spirit can do in our lives. It is easy to think that he doesn't care, as in our former groups our acceptance was based on how well we performed. God's love is unconditional and complete, and believing this has brought blessed recovery to my life.
As Brent said, this doesn't let the abusive group off the hook, but as Terry said it gives us an opportunity to take a nice good belly laugh re. the whole situation (of course some tears may have preceeded this). God Bless, Mark

Hi Everyone,

Since I left about 6 weeks ago, I can share a little about what helped the most. The most important therapy or way of recovery was talking to ex-members who had left before me. In that way I was able to work out in a short period of time what they had already learned. The internet is a powerful tool and the rick ross website/bulletin board was instrumental in conveying the answers as well as providing long lost contacts.

Another thing I did was go to a church that was heavily berated by the group I was in. I figured there was a "good" reason for ridiculing them. On my first Sunday, I was completely open with the elders as to what I was involved in. They in turn, welcomed me, offered to help me in any way they could. They offered to help me find a church that was biblically based if I wanted to check out any others. It's interesting, they mentioned 5 churches that are in no way related to them. My point in this, is that by communicating, rather than hiding, I feel I'm on the road to recovery much more quickly than would have been if I had kept quiet.

Hope, thank you for your contribution and for reminding me! When I joined the group 18 years ago, I rarely got sick. Usually once every five years, I got a minor cold. I believe the oppression and the stress from the group I was in, caused me to progress into severe allergies, then internal bleeding, then to a terminal blood disorder for which the cause is unknown. Since I left, I got a minor case of the flu when all around me people were very ill. My allergies are gone!?! (This is my worst season.) My blood condition is in remission. Proper nutrition kept me going and now I believe it's helping me to recover physically as well.

The Lord bless you,

Eric

I wanted to contact this ND and speak with him after I started finding out more about the lies he had told me about his background and experience. In fact, he basically lied about everything, right down to the manufacturer of his motorcycle. However, after emailing him asking why he had said this or that, I got a response back that he would call a lawyer regarding me harassing him. Much research and reading convinces me that he is a psychopath, at the very least, a narcissist, however, and I know contacting him will only lead to more pain. My therapist at the time agreed he PROBABLY fits both of those profiles, but it's really an educated guess.

Confronting these perps can open up healing wounds and even cause new ones. Psychopaths are notoriously capable of conning therapists, juries, judges and law enforcement personnel. They have no fear of getting caught, and it's nothing to initiate a lawsuit against someone who they perceive to be harassing them. In my situation, he's a handsome doctor who has let others know I was after him for more than professional reasons (as he put it), and I'm the hysterical woman who plays sick to get attention and who doesn't want to get well (also Landmark's assessment). There is no way I can confront him without risking a lawsuit and damage to my own emotional well-being. I can't get the word out and use his name, because that would be considered slander.

I don't doubt that cult leaders fit in the same category and may even have more financial clout behind them. Contacting perps should be well thought out, preferably after lots of healing has taken place.

The best way to cut down the time for recovery is to seek out x members and find out from them what they found out. However, in my case, the group was like a mother wart with babies coming up all over the place. Many x cult members went to "new" cult groups unbeknown to them, almost the same as the one they left. Therein may be the danger of seeking out x members.

Learning to critically read and think and give oneself lots of time to recover is more important than anything else, I believe.

The physical illnesses are something that accompanies the stresses of cult living. I too have been much "weller" since leaving the cult. The stress put on a member of any cult is amost unbelievable. Also one doesn't always even recognize stress as stress while in the cult. Disassociation is usually present. Mavin

Hi Everyone

This is a rather common phenomenon I think. At its root is pride. After leaving the first cult, people think they are so smart for "figuring out the problem." or they think they are so brave and courageous because they left, etc.

What many of us don't do is to accurately judge ourselves and realize that it was our own character flaws that made us vulnerable. Remember, hundreds of people visited the group and walked out the door thinking the place was wacky. Why didn't we do that if we are so smart and courageous? Prideful, self-deceptive people usually end up never getting over it, or they join another group and do the same thing over and over.

I think that is why exposing the group is so important. First of all, it takes REAL courage, not the fake kind.

Second, in so doing, you must come to grips with the fact and embarrassement that You, Yourself, SERVED AND PROMOTED the evil in your group/abusive relationship/ etc.

This is humbling. At the heart of "Self Esteem" is an accurate assesment of ourselves. Fake, manufactured self esteem is just that. If we don't know who we truly are, how can we ever grow?

I am convinced that these two principles (along with others)are at the foundation of recovery. Leave them out, and it just won't work.

Brent

Hi Everyone,

Sorry for the interuption, my daughter thought it would be neat to double-click on my mouse. Hence the entry above.

As I was saying, I think we need to evaluate our own selves. The reason we stayed, if it was for any length of time, is that we became proud that we found the true church, etc. Granted, there are situations where someone is forced to stay in a group, but I think those are rare. In my life, I have met only one person who was threatened to keep coming out after the second or third meeting.

However, when we leave a group and start looking with that baggage of pride, we tend to find only the groups that were like our former one. This is something we [u:f4b8ca1090]all[/u:f4b8ca1090] need to be responsible about in our lives. That is, we need to admit that we were proud.

Lord Bless,

Eric

I agree we all need to assess the reasons we got into a cult. We have to understand what we did backwards so we can move effectively forwards.

My personal case was different in many ways, but I figured out why and how I got into it, what MY personal defects were that got me to where I got, and I also researched the group and found out their methods of deceit and recruitment. Had I had informed consent, never in my right mind would I have joined.

I do not take all the responsibility. The groups are evil and go out looking for people to steal and prey upon. I do take some responsibility. I am very careful now what I get into.

Exposing the group is very important. I have worked diligently for years doing that. I have helped others exit and helped them upon exit.

True humility, I believe is looking at the good and bad in us. All of it. Facing ourselves as we really are. I think you and I are saying the same things in different words, Eric. Mavin

Hi Everyone,

I guess the first part of my post got lost in cyberspace! So, I'll reiterate it here (as a complete thought).

<<Learning to critically read and think and give oneself lots of time to recover is more important than anything else, I believe. >>

Mavin, I think you hit on a key point. When someone leaves a group they need to learn to think critically so they don't end up in another abusive "church", assembly, etc. I think if we speak with ex-members, it's productive if we combine critical thinking with it. The reason most of us got "taken" in the first place is because we weren't thinking critically at the time.

Brent also made a good point of the pride that we held on to, at least in part. Granted some groups out there don't blatantly use pride as a way of gathering people, but the pride has to be there to create an elitest mindset even if the bond is centered around "relationships". (I'm trying to cover a few cults I already know about.)

I think we need to evaluate our own selves. The reason we stayed, if it was for any length of time, is that we became proud in believing we found the true church, etc. Granted, there are situations where someone is forced to stay in a group, but I think those are rare. In my life, I have met only one person who was threatened to keep coming out after the second or third meeting.

However, when we leave a group and start looking with that baggage of pride, we tend to find only the groups that were like our former one. This is something we all need to be responsible about in our lives. That is, we need to admit that we were proud.

Lord Bless,

Eric