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Two features that, IMO are the mark of a hurtful group or relationship

Too much purpose, not enough time for play, real play. Ever hungry groups and partners are insatiable and want your attention all the time and want your attention all the time.

Any hint that you are playing or just plain having fun in a way that has zero to do with the group or relationship is resented

I have mentioned this before, how here in the San Diego area, if there were something like the Temecula Avocado Festival coming up, it was only announced in terms of "We're going to have a booth there to promote the SGI - sign up for a time slot!" There was never a "This sounds like a really fun time for you all to enjoy with your families" comment. And anything we were going to do that had a fun element to it, like having our District General Meeting at the park with playground for the kids and grills and potluck always came with the admonishment "Remember to bring a guest!"

Sell sell sell!!

Also, and similarly, on the subject of having fun, even that was carefully scrutinized. Once, we YWD were out with our Jt. Terr. YWD leader from Chicago, MISS Almeda Bailey, and you know she's supposedly a great singer. But she was telling us that her dancing is really lame! That if she danced for us, we'd all be going "I'm so discouraged!" And we were laughing our asses off. When I told my WD District leader about it, she said, "We should change that to be 'I'm so ENCOURAGED' instead!" Or something like we should never say we are discouraged, but only state how great everything is all the time. Maybe it was, "We should make sure our district has the reputation for ALWAYS being encouraged!!" Totally phony and superficial, in other words. Not allowed to be human.

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Your loyalty is not reciprocated and you are accused of selfishness if you dare mention this.

That is *EXACTLY* what happened to me. Shortly before I stopped going to meetings, like maybe even my last district discussion meeting, I mentioned to my MD District leader that I simply wasn't getting any of my needs met through the organization's activities. You know what he said to me?

"You're being really selfish. You should instead be thinking about how you can use all your training and knowledge of Buddhism to help others." O_O

Yep, not allowed to have any needs...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2013 01:37AM by TaitenAndProud.

Thanks for pointing all of that out TaP . . . really, it's no wonder that sgi and nsa are both packed with vindictive little whatevers. Honestly, prior to sgi, my leanings were more toward Tibetan Buddhism, I have no idea why. I have no interest in affiliating with any particular group at this point and options in my area are limited anyway, although there is a spectacular Thai temple near me (it makes me chuckle every time I see it, since they are located directly next to a very fundamendalist Christian church). They have a tiny little Kwan Yin room that is peaceful and filled with calm.

Yes, an ungrateful org indeed. It really resembles nothing more than a crappy relationship with a needy, greedy manipulative human being; I reread your postings several times, and it struck me that leaving sgi is neither more nor less than leaving an abusive partner.

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corboy
Two features that, IMO are the mark of a hurtful group or relationship

Too much purpose, not enough time for play, real play. Ever hungry groups and partners are insatiable and want your attention all the time and want your attention all the time.

Any hint that you are playing or just plain having fun in a way that has zero to do with the group or relationship is resented

A story, here of a woman whose parents helped her get out of a cult. By playing a game she had loved her whole life. Scrabble. She was home sick from the cult and it was in playing Scrabble with her family that it slowly dawned on her that...it was the first time since joining the group that...she had actually had fun.

[forum.culteducation.com]


Your loyalty is not reciprocated and you are accused of selfishness if you dare mention this.

(??) A part of play dimension in life is one's free choice in how one decorates one's living space.

Even if a person is encouraged to set aside a place for meditation or prayer, if a person has autonomy, there will be features that are idiosyncratic.

People who belong to the Zen lineage I try to practice in...many do have plenty of recognizable Japanese items, but their living spaces still have plenty of features characteristic of that person. One of my closest friends in that group is a scholar of Buddhism--but also an avid reader of detective stories.

And a good number of persons in the sangha follow the fortunes of the local baseball team.

But if homes or businesses owned by members of a group all have a characteristic 'look'
thats a signal that play dimension is being taken over by the group.

All cult kaikans (community centers) pretty much look the same. Same thing applies to members' home altars / chanting areas. Cookie cutter same, too. I've noticed that Ikeda's photo has inched closer and closer to the actual butsudan and is now "officially" on the little butsudan stand where the person leads (this would have been sacrilegious when I was in). Gosho thumping and gosho study has now morphed into more Ikeda-centric activities. It was a cult when I was in it and is even more so today.

On the topic of having fun and personal autonomy, there is one thing I've noticed that is universal about gakkai cult org. leaders. I've seen this characteristic with "leaders" from all strata in the cult org. (district, semi-salaried, full-salaried, etc.). Many of them all share the same trait of being aggressive, intrusive and controlling - with no sense, care or concern about respecting everyday normal civilized boundaries between people, basic human rights, personal space and privacy.

Examples I've witnessed:

A "leader" walking into a member's front door, during a busy time for the family and calling (no, actually ordering) the first person who they saw to come over and take some gakkai cult org. scheduling material.

Another "leader" home v-ing (home visiting) a member on a rainy day. This member had some special flowers sitting out on their porch, the "leader" barks at the member that those were the kind of flowers that couldn't get wet and that they should immediately be placed inside out of the rain. The member quickly applied, while apologizing.

Don't forget, in every case, the "leader" was visiting and intruding into a member's own actual personal house / property.

And the doozy of them all, a salaried "leader" plopping himself monkey-style over the arm of a member's sofa, in their home, as a "guest", leg-a-dangling over the side, and dispensing guidance like some kind of childish mini-king to the surrounding members. I was aghast when I saw this happen.

I have seen this trait and tendency over and over with gakkai cult org. leaders. Intrusive, rude, pushy and domineering. The more sheepish the member's personality, they more leeway they took with this behavior and the more they got away with it, too. In every case, take this same "leader" and place them in front of one of their superior "leaders", and you'd see a complete 180 degree turn in their attitude, personality and behavior (role reversal).

The gakkai cult is an extremely sick "organization."



- Hitch

You are correct, sir! [/EdMcMahonVoice]

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TaitenAndProud

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Two features that, IMO are the mark of a hurtful group or relationship

Too much purpose, not enough time for play, real play. Ever hungry groups and partners are insatiable and want your attention all the time and want your attention all the time.

Any hint that you are playing or just plain having fun in a way that has zero to do with the group or relationship is resented

I have mentioned this before, how here in the San Diego area, if there were something like the Temecula Avocado Festival coming up, it was only announced in terms of "We're going to have a booth there to promote the SGI - sign up for a time slot!" There was never a "This sounds like a really fun time for you all to enjoy with your families" comment. And anything we were going to do that had a fun element to it, like having our District General Meeting at the park with playground for the kids and grills and potluck always came with the admonishment "Remember to bring a guest!"

Sell sell sell!!

Also, and similarly, on the subject of having fun, even that was carefully scrutinized. Once, we YWD were out with our Jt. Terr. YWD leader from Chicago, MISS Almeda Bailey, and you know she's supposedly a great singer. But she was telling us that her dancing is really lame! That if she danced for us, we'd all be going "I'm so discouraged!" And we were laughing our asses off. When I told my WD District leader about it, she said, "We should change that to be 'I'm so ENCOURAGED' instead!" Or something like we should never say we are discouraged, but only state how great everything is all the time. Maybe it was, "We should make sure our district has the reputation for ALWAYS being encouraged!!" Totally phony and superficial, in other words. Not allowed to be human.

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Your loyalty is not reciprocated and you are accused of selfishness if you dare mention this.

That is *EXACTLY* what happened to me. Shortly before I stopped going to meetings, like maybe even my last district discussion meeting, I mentioned to my MD District leader that I simply wasn't getting any of my needs met through the organization's activities. You know what he said to me?

"You're being really selfish. You should instead be thinking about how you can use all your training and knowledge of Buddhism to help others." O_O

Yep, not allowed to have any needs...

Well, T&P, I was always told, "Practice for oneself and for others...primarily, the practice is for YOUR benefit." See? Numero Uno, yessiree!

One thing that severely twisted my knickers - after the reorg in January, our new md district leader seemed to make it a point to lead gongyo where ever he went . . . really pissed me off, especially when he was at my place. I talked with the woman who shakubuku'd be, and she told me that that was considered extremely rude, even by organizational standards and that as a long-time member, he should know better. The next time we had a meeting here, I made a point of starting gongyo before he had a chance to plant his ass . . . he could've only sat closer to me if he'd gotten into my clothing with me - I could tell that I had usurped his power position and Baby Yawheh was most displeased. Ass-hat. Ah, yes, that's when the leaders started noticing I had a little tarnish around the edges.

It's the smarmy control that makes my bile rise . . . that soft, eldering . . . nothing said directly, all "oh, you might be . . . " or "people might misunderstand." So non-committal, and when they are confronted, they put the onus back on you - you interpreted things wrong blah-di-blah-di-blah. What a pack of weasels. Ultimately, I think many of them are cowards and bullies at heart and, as soon as they get a little bit of power granted to them, they begin abusing it immediately to build up their sad little egos. For once, they have authority, and by god, you're going to pay attention to them. You'll even sit at their feet in meetings and listen to them dispense their wisdom. You go to them for guidance and, no matter what your issue, they always have that wisdom at their fingertips and they are happy to tell you to chant more or strengthen your practice. Around May, they vary it with suggesting that you really make an effort to contribute all you can (and more) to the cause of Cousin Rufus. So imaginative and creative! So trés sgi.

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meh
It's the smarmy control that makes my bile rise . . . that soft, eldering . . . nothing said directly, all "oh, you might be . . . " or "people might misunderstand." So non-committal, and when they are confronted, they put the onus back on you - you interpreted things wrong blah-di-blah-di-blah. What a pack of weasels.

Yes! That's a knockout (K.O.) punch post right there.

I first noticed this as a teenager (high school), when I was bumping heads with the YMD leadership over scheduling issues. At the time, I couldn't understand WHY they couldn't get it thru their thick skulls as to what the problem was --> basically, always weaseling out with lame excuses and essentially "putting the onus back on me." This kind of thing was the very FIRST sign that I began to notice about the manipulative gakkai cult org. and that something just wasn't quite right and out of whack. Of course, it only continued to get worse with time (or for as long as one allows it).

I quickly learned that you have to learn to say "No", stand your ground, push back and then accept & deal with the consequences (guilt and fear tactics, mystical threats of damnation, being excluded and otherwise treated like sh*t). Otherwise, the cult org. will steamroll right over you, turn you into a mindless sheep, or hardcore Ikeda-bot, or ride you until you collapse and breakdown.

The number one manipulation tactic in the gakkai cult org. = It's always *YOU* that is the problem. Do your own "human revolution" (slap-slap across the face) . . . . .


- Hitch

That's the thing, though, isn't it? It's always something that you need to fix and you either say "omg, they're right! I have to chant more/strengthen my faith, etc., etc." or you say "screw you, Jack, you are bat-shit crazy." The latter group they'll bug for a little while but will generally give up on; the former group they sniff out like a pack of scent-hounds and hone in on. It gets to where it's like Stockholm syndrome - they cause the pain and you love them because they're the only ones who can make it go away through their encouragement and approval. I'm not sure if they discovered it by accident or design, but let's face it, a lot of us on this mb are not mainstream people. We think a little differently than the average bear, our philosophies are not euro or American - I've gotten more than one raised eyebrow when voicing my beliefs, even long before sgi. When you are embraced by a group of people whose belief-systems are fungible (omg, I used that word in a sentence - I love it!) enough to reflect our own and our voices are being heard, we're being enthusiastically validated and supported - it's pretty hard not to stick around if only for a little while (of course, I'm talking about those of us who joined the practice later in life - misfortune babies are another whole ball of wax). Many of us were at vulnerable points in our lives - I remember thinking that nothing else I had tried had worked, so why not give this a go? And, of course, as life's inevitable cycle progressed, I saw things improving in my life and attributed them to the new magic I was learning.

If you're like me, you set aside little niggling doubts you might have; you're surrounded by people who appear to be happy and are good at solving the problems they have in their lives, and if they don't solve those problems, they face them with smiles on their feverishly glowing little faces. Who doesn't want to be like that? And you start swallowing that Kool-Aid, a sip at a time, and before you know it you have a whole pitcher of it in front of you that you're eagerly gulping down. The important thing is that you're taking responsibility for your life, you're owning and trying to expiate your karma, and it seems like chanting works because lights stay green for you and you can find parking spaces. If things aren't going well, all you need to do is seek guidance from a leader; they'll generally be kind, but look . . . you're only chanting 15 minutes a day, and you don't study . . . you really need to take charge and start doing that, because that's the road to fixing your life. Look at pres ikeda . . . humble beginnings, health problems . . . the only way he conquered that was through faith, practice and sacrificing himself to Cousin Rufus. Look at this one, look at that one, so-and-so had cancer and he just completed four marathons last Saturday because he chants six hours a day. It's all about making you feel not quite adequate, but being adequate is within your reach and only the org can help you. It's working for them and it can work for you, if you only do it right. And they love you and want to help you. And if you're dealing with complete and utter a-holes, you're encouraged to view them charitably, you don't know what's going on their lives, they're struggling just like you . . .

I went through a few days of soul-searching before resigning . . . I had sense enough NOT to talk to a leader. I read through postings here and other places, and it was like dawn breaking after a seven-year long night. Every situation I questioned was represented - it was like I was talking to myself. I wasn't being a bad zombie, I was just waking up and smelling the feces.

Sometimes a dark night of the soul is the best thing that can happen to a person. Absolutely nothing in the circumstances of my life has changed, but I feel like the weight of the world is off my shoulders (given that unflattering pic of Senseless, it was a substantial weight indeed - is it me, or does he look a little like chairman mao?) and I don't have to feel guilty. Life is good. Life is bad. Life is life. Get used to it. If you're going to take responsibility, do it . . . don't imagine that chanting or any other magical hokey-pokey is going to take care of it for you.

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The important thing is that you're taking responsibility for your life, you're owning and trying to expiate your karma

For me, this was an incredibly destructive concept. For example, when my asshole of a boss told me that "There are anonymous complaints about you," I should have said, "Identify them so that we can address any problems together, or let's go talk to your boss right now." Instead, I "self-reflected", imagining all the possible scenarios where I let someone down or failed to meet someone else's expectations. In other words, I was my own worst enemy. Instead of confronting the assholery I was being hit with, I colluded. Instead of identifying who had complaints and what, specifically, they were and with regard to what particular project I'd been working on, I just offered up more fuel to the fire.

In retrospect, she was just using the "anonymous complaints" dodge as a way to criticize me HERSELF without taking responsibility for any of it. I should have called her ass onto the mat right then and there, but the whole SGI thing had me automatically internalizing that I'd failed and finding scenarios that fit.

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it seems like chanting works because lights stay green for you and you can find parking spaces.

Yes, on mornings that I was running late, when I hit all the green lights and made it there in the minimum amount of travel time, I was all "THANK YOU GOHONZON!!" But I haven't chanted in years, and I *still* hit all greens some days. Plus, I've found that, if I simply leave a few minutes early, the color of the lights really doesn't make any difference *ahem*

This sort of nonsense isn't just in the SGI, though. My devout Christian mother once told me about a "miracle" she personally experienced. She and my grandmother were driving to the monthly Christian Women's Club luncheon. And they were late! There was NO WAY they could make it there on time! So she said, "Mother, pray!" They both prayed and they got there on time.

O_O

That's it. That's the "miracle." It wasn't as if the *nice* ladies at the Christian Women's Club luncheon wouldn't let them in if they were late. It wasn't as if there wouldn't be another CWC luncheon the next month. My narcissistic mother no doubt thought that the shame of walking in late would kill her. So, therefore, she needed - and was granted - a "miracle." Some years later, when she was dying of ovarian cancer, where the 17% odds of making it into remission stubbornly eluded her and all those nice church people who were busy thinking *special thoughts* and imagining they were helping somehow, I wondered if she thought back on that "miracle" and if its miraculousness and specialness were now tarnished and cheap, considering there was a perfectly good chance for her to overcome her cancer (17% should be child's play for a god, right?) and yet she was not. Despite her lifetime of devotion, despite all her bible study and forcing her children to go to church activities they hated and the pressure she put on her family to look *perfect* so that her fancy church friends would think she was exemplary. None of this got her diddly squat. When push came to shove, there were no miracles to be had.

There was a question a while back somewhere on this site about only counting the hits and ignoring the misses - it's called "confirmation bias." Anything that confirms your belief counts; everything else is dismissed as irrelevant. See it all the time in any belief system that includes some variant on prayers-being-answered.

It's the same in the SGI - that mom I've mentioned, chanting endless hours for her spine-injured young son to be restored to full health and him remaining crippled for life. At least she got millions of dollars in settlement, so she can now live without financial concerns in a great big house with a pool (that she could only have dreamed of before her son was crippled). Worth it? That woman I used to like talking to after meetings, stricken with stomach cancer and dying from it within months. Hell, Culture Department Chief Pascual Olivera getting cancer, stopping treatment midstream with the ecstatic announcement that he was "cured", that the doctors had said there wasn't a single cancer cell left within his entire body (no doctor would say that), dancing the flamenco with his lovely wife for Senseless at a New Year's Gongyo party, and then, 9 months later, he's dead. From cancer. Cancer comes from *within* your own body, you see - so there's nobody who can say there's none of it in there, because it can start up again at any time. Such an observation of "not a single cancer cell left" would be worse than useless. Shin Yatomi, Study Department Chief, dead within months of an aggressive and invasive cancer. David Aoyama dying in one of the planes that hit the World Trade Center on 9/11. Ikeda's son dying at the ripe old age of 28. National leader Guy McCloskey's son (age mid-to-late 20s) dying in a motorcycle accident. I could go on and on.

If all these high-level leaders (and their offspring) couldn't manage to overcome these obstacles, why should anyone think that this practice works in any sense that is not just random chance?

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meh
If you're like me, you set aside little niggling doubts you might have; you're surrounded by people who appear to be happy and are good at solving the problems they have in their lives, and if they don't solve those problems, they face them with smiles on their feverishly glowing little faces. Who doesn't want to be like that? And you start swallowing that Kool-Aid, a sip at a time, and before you know it you have a whole pitcher of it in front of you that you're eagerly gulping down. The important thing is that you're taking responsibility for your life, you're owning and trying to expiate your karma, and it seems like chanting works because lights stay green for you and you can find parking spaces. If things aren't going well, all you need to do is seek guidance from a leader; they'll generally be kind, but look . . . you're only chanting 15 minutes a day, and you don't study . . . you really need to take charge and start doing that, because that's the road to fixing your life. Look at pres ikeda . . . humble beginnings, health problems . . . the only way he conquered that was through faith, practice and sacrificing himself to Cousin Rufus. Look at this one, look at that one, so-and-so had cancer and he just completed four marathons last Saturday because he chants six hours a day. It's all about making you feel not quite adequate, but being adequate is within your reach and only the org can help you. It's working for them and it can work for you, if you only do it right. And they love you and want to help you. And if you're dealing with complete and utter a-holes, you're encouraged to view them charitably, you don't know what's going on their lives, they're struggling just like you . . .

I, too, was just like you, meh. I went thru the same ringer and saw everyone else being put thru exactly the same thing as you've just described above. A perfect summation, I might add. Just a few tweaks to the details here and there, but the plot was basically the same for me, too.

Everybody else is "happy", so there must be something wrong with *me* for not getting with the program. Everybody else is following orders, taking the abuse, doing their "human revolution", so I have to try harder to swallow it all and pass muster. Then, more crap gets flung on to you.

You don't have any benefits? What?! Tell me about this or that. There, you see! You *did* get a benefit! Now, go give an experience and share it at the next meeting and work harder for Cousin Rufus. You'll get an even bigger, better, nicer, more obvious, WHOPPING ZONKER of a benefit. Me: "Ok" (not really believing all of the BS that had just been shoveled and dumped on top of my head by the bucketful). Then, later, when I worked my @ss off for something and accomplished a goal, the cult org. was there, eager to exploit and use me as propaganda and try to take all the credit (when in reality, I had accomplished those things IN SPITE OF the cult org. standing in the way, every step of the way, making me miserable and abusing me the whole while). I just found it all so disgusting.

I slowly started to experiment with missing gongyo and doing only a minute or two of the magic chant. Speaking up, talking and pushing back. Absolutely nothing happened. I was told I would "get it", as in bad Cousin Rufus juju. I only kept happier and happier, the less I was forced to do the time consuming prayers and embarrassing magic chant, the less warped activities I participated in and, in general, the farther & farther I got away from the cult org. and all the manipulators in it. I might be making it sound easier than it actually was, especially in the beginning, because there were moments of fear, doubt and loneliness. But, slowly, that all eventually turned around into quiet confidence, knowledge and the realization that slowly dawned on me, that I didn't *need* those kinds of people in my life and all of their baggage. Like I said, life was actually BETTER, without all of the cult org. shackles.


- Hitch