Mahesh and money
Posted by:
Lehmann108
()
Date: October 31, 2006 04:41AM
Quote
Martin
I am a former tm-er from the 70's when I was Mahesh's personal secretary as well as course leader in La Antilla.
Old thread, but I'm reading it for the first time right now. I was on the first La Antilla course and then went on to Punta Umbria and then to Seelisberg. You mention you were a course leader. I just remember an English guy (Max?) and Leon Weiner. Were you one of those guys?
Mahesh and money
Posted by:
Toni
()
Date: November 02, 2006 01:17PM
Quote
Lehmann108
This is a real old thread, but it was fun reading. I started TM in high school in 1972 and became a TM teacher the next year. Went to MIU from '74-'78.
Well Lehmann, I probably knew you.
Welcome!
You might benefit from reading the studies about thought reform on this website and elsewhere. It will help you, even after thse many years.
JGD :roll:
toni 8)
Mahesh and money
Posted by:
Martin Adanac
()
Date: November 03, 2006 03:07AM
Quote
Lehmann108
My paradox with MMY has been the very deep spiritual experiences that his techniques and his presence have triggered in me.
Hi, Lehmann -- I have a question and I am not asking it to provoke an argument or to criticize or anything of that kind. I am just wondering how you [i:7a69506389]know[/i:7a69506389] that you had a very deep spiritual experience?
This is what people said about LSD and all the toys of the 60's. After TM, I explored Zen, Vajrayana and Theravada Buddhism. This material has a very long history and has been practised by lots of folks. No one ever mentioned anything about any [i:7a69506389]deep spiritual experiences.[/i:7a69506389] Although many talked about personal insights, something I rarely, very rarely heard around Mahesh.
I spent a lot of time with Mahesh and never heard any convincing explanation for what deep spiritual experiences might be or what, exactly "spiritual" really meant. It always seemed that he said whatever people seemed to want to hear.
I'd really like to hear about your experiences. What, to you, is, actually, a deep spiritual experience all about?
If TM is working for you and your are, in good, old fashioned Star Trek terms living well and prospering, then it's a good thing[i:7a69506389] for you.[/i:7a69506389] I taught lots of folks and attended many ttc's. TM is definitely NOT universally a good thing for everyone.
Mahesh and money
Posted by:
Martin Adanac
()
Date: November 03, 2006 03:09AM
[quote="Lehmann108 I just remember an English guy (Max?) and Leon Weiner. Were you one of those guys?[/quote]
I worked with Max.
You might want to check out this marvellous video Toni shared with me recently:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E[/url]
I can cite Mahesh examples for almost every incident in the video. I didn't realize at the time I was with him what he was doing and how cleverly and deceitfully he was doing it.
I was a true True Believer, right out of Eric Hoffer! I thought I was a disciple of the greatest guru ever and felt so blessed and fortunate. But I had also seen his feet of clay. And as I thought about the difficulties of the unresolvable conflicts between my inspiration and what I had seen that I wasn't supposed to have seen, I finally had a crisis of faith and subsequently felt his feet of clay extended upwards to the top of his head.
Apologies for the exaggeration, but I am not alone. More and more people are noticing that the times of greatest happiness had loopholes, so to speak, and for some of us, as time passes, the loopholes have become vortices that have sucked the life out of us and us out of our dreamy fantacies about how good the good old days were.
Meditation, mental development, yoga, t'ai c'hi, these are good things. But increasingly as people began sharring past experiences and more and more truth about the "sexcapades" and financial dealings emerges, I have to say that Maheshism is not good, definitely NOT mental development and in no way yoga. T'ai c'hi, which is excellent exercise, especially for us aging boomers, was roundly condemned by Mahesh back in the day ... it turns out that whatever he didn't teach was BAD, whatever he taught was GOOD. Maybe [b:8b2b5b7f23]he[/b:8b2b5b7f23]'s that black/white, but most of us aren't and real growth as individuals, discovering who we are and what works for who and what we are as individuals is, in my mind, [i:8b2b5b7f23]spiritual.[/i:8b2b5b7f23]
I really think that in this way Mahesh is anti-spiritual. He was adament that he alone would make our decisions! Many things I learned from him are very, very valuable to me, but in contexts other than his black/white narcissism. -- It's a difficult area, isn't it, a slippery-slope! But when we, as so many of us did, handed over our lives so he can/could use us as he pleased, that became just too critical for us.
I worked with Max.
You might want to check out this marvellous video Toni shared with me recently:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E[/url]
I can cite Mahesh examples for almost every incident in the video. I didn't realize at the time I was with him what he was doing and how cleverly and deceitfully he was doing it.
I was a true True Believer, right out of Eric Hoffer! I thought I was a disciple of the greatest guru ever and felt so blessed and fortunate. But I had also seen his feet of clay. And as I thought about the difficulties of the unresolvable conflicts between my inspiration and what I had seen that I wasn't supposed to have seen, I finally had a crisis of faith and subsequently felt his feet of clay extended upwards to the top of his head.
Apologies for the exaggeration, but I am not alone. More and more people are noticing that the times of greatest happiness had loopholes, so to speak, and for some of us, as time passes, the loopholes have become vortices that have sucked the life out of us and us out of our dreamy fantacies about how good the good old days were.
Meditation, mental development, yoga, t'ai c'hi, these are good things. But increasingly as people began sharring past experiences and more and more truth about the "sexcapades" and financial dealings emerges, I have to say that Maheshism is not good, definitely NOT mental development and in no way yoga. T'ai c'hi, which is excellent exercise, especially for us aging boomers, was roundly condemned by Mahesh back in the day ... it turns out that whatever he didn't teach was BAD, whatever he taught was GOOD. Maybe [b:8b2b5b7f23]he[/b:8b2b5b7f23]'s that black/white, but most of us aren't and real growth as individuals, discovering who we are and what works for who and what we are as individuals is, in my mind, [i:8b2b5b7f23]spiritual.[/i:8b2b5b7f23]
I really think that in this way Mahesh is anti-spiritual. He was adament that he alone would make our decisions! Many things I learned from him are very, very valuable to me, but in contexts other than his black/white narcissism. -- It's a difficult area, isn't it, a slippery-slope! But when we, as so many of us did, handed over our lives so he can/could use us as he pleased, that became just too critical for us.
Mahesh and money
Posted by:
Toni
()
Date: December 15, 2006 12:15AM
The Enlightened Sentencing Project
[www.enlightenedsentencing.org]
Pundits performing Yagyas (e.g.pay thousands of $$, they'll pray for your according to celestial alignment, to solve your personal, financial and professional issues)
[www.enlightenedsentencing.org]
[www.enlightenedsentencing.org]
Pundits performing Yagyas (e.g.pay thousands of $$, they'll pray for your according to celestial alignment, to solve your personal, financial and professional issues)
[www.enlightenedsentencing.org]
Mahesh and money
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: December 15, 2006 02:18PM
Seems like this video :
[www.youtube.com]
Is much more accurate and telling than this video:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
Is much more accurate and telling than this video:
[www.youtube.com]
Mahesh and money
Posted by:
Martin Adanac
()
Date: December 16, 2006 11:40PM
Hi, ajinajan -- I liked the cult movie much better, as well; but I think the second one Toni posted has a lot of merit because it gives some glimpse into how many of the faithful feel/think/fantasize. I think Toni's reference to "the fun part" is a bit of irony. When we were true believers, we thought it was delightful, cosmic, the most wonderful thing anyone could do. But from a different perspective, the one we have now, it all seems really vacuous, pretentious and really embarrassing to think we used to be like that. I find it embarrassing because it was my choice; others were not so fortunate, they were raised that way. I think those kids/now-adults would find this film very meaningful, although I'm not sure just what they would make of it.
I'm going to assume you have experience with Mahesh and the TMO (which I like to lump together as [i:7f2c049000]Maheshism[/i:7f2c049000]). Mahesh and his organization and what his organization does are altogether only one thing: it's all just Mahesh projecting his sense of "knowing better", "knowing best" onto others (and, of course, making them pay him for it and think it was their idea to do so).
The second film smacks of the airy-fairy kind of thinking and dreaminess of which the true believers are actually quite proud. They kind of make the happy-clappy born again fundies look almost normal by comparison ... well, almost.
Mahesh deserves a lot of credit for being smart enough to part the sincere and their trust funds. Few if any have pulled that off for as long as he has and not gotten caught. He has, of course, been caught. Many of his former followers know him for the slick little weasel that he is. But being known for what you are and getting put out of business are two different things. So he's still laughing; but I think his present failing health makes the laughter hurt.
I'm going to assume you have experience with Mahesh and the TMO (which I like to lump together as [i:7f2c049000]Maheshism[/i:7f2c049000]). Mahesh and his organization and what his organization does are altogether only one thing: it's all just Mahesh projecting his sense of "knowing better", "knowing best" onto others (and, of course, making them pay him for it and think it was their idea to do so).
The second film smacks of the airy-fairy kind of thinking and dreaminess of which the true believers are actually quite proud. They kind of make the happy-clappy born again fundies look almost normal by comparison ... well, almost.
Mahesh deserves a lot of credit for being smart enough to part the sincere and their trust funds. Few if any have pulled that off for as long as he has and not gotten caught. He has, of course, been caught. Many of his former followers know him for the slick little weasel that he is. But being known for what you are and getting put out of business are two different things. So he's still laughing; but I think his present failing health makes the laughter hurt.
Mahesh and money
Posted by:
Martin Adanac
()
Date: December 16, 2006 11:48PM
I thought we used to be able to edit our "contributions" once they were posted, but I couldn't find the edit switch, so there's just a small difference below" -- apologies for taking up so much space:
Quote
Martin Adanac
Hi, ajinajan -- I liked the cult movie much better, as well; but I think the second one Toni posted has a lot of merit because it gives some glimpse into how many of the faithful feel/think/fantasize. I think Toni's reference to "the fun parts" is a bit of irony.* When we were true believers, we thought it was delightful, cosmic, the most wonderful thing anyone could do. But from a different perspective, the one we have now, it all seems really vacuous, pretentious and really embarrassing to think we used to be like that. I find it embarrassing because it was my choice; others were not so fortunate, they were raised that way. I think those kids/now-adults would find this film very meaningful, although I'm not sure just what they would make of it.
I'm going to assume you have experience with Mahesh and the TMO (which I like to lump together as [i:fb723517e8]Maheshism[/i:fb723517e8]). Mahesh and his organization and what his organization does are altogether only one thing: it's all just Mahesh projecting his sense of "knowing better", "knowing best" onto others (and, of course, making them pay him for it and think it was their idea to do so).
The second film smacks of the airy-fairy kind of thinking and dreaminess of which the true believers are actually quite proud. They kind of make the happy-clappy born again fundies look almost normal by comparison ... well, almost.
Mahesh deserves a lot of credit for being smart enough to part the sincere and their trust funds. Few if any have pulled that off for as long as he has and not gotten caught. He has, of course, been caught. Many of his former followers know him for the slick little weasel that he is. But being known for what you are and getting put out of business are two different things. So he's still laughing; but I think his present failing health makes the laughter hurt.
* remember, Toni titled the post "Flashbacks anyone?"
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