Wow! You guys make Mahesh's TM organization sound just like some kind of [b:e61b05bba8]CULT!!!!![/b:e61b05bba8] (snark and sarcasm dripping from the page)

Seriously...one of the problems as I see it is that people blame the 'movement' as being evil but still worship, adore and make excuses for their Maharishi. They say that he must be innocent of all this money grubbing and mind control because he is a sanyasin and simple.

But these posts are helping to show that actually he is firmly in control and at the helm of his own Death Star.

Toni, perhaps the word you were looking for earlier concerning Silk Wrap Undies for men is dhoti? I believe that is what East Indians males wear as their main form of undergarment. Their version of the 'tighty-whitey'. You've got to be kidding me! Not exactly designed to be worn under Western Trousers! And now we see yet another of Mahesh's control factors: Keep their knickers in a twist and they won't be able to question what I"m doing!

I, too, do not grasp the idea of Celibate Marriage. I mean, DUH? Any couple sharing a home and a bed who would consent to such a very strange edict would at least think twice. But those in the movement never queston. In fact they sometimes look for FURTHER ways to prove their obedience. Sigh.

Hi, Rose -- a dhoti is the outer garment. The undergarment looks sort of like a jock strap.

Yes, all the true-believers think Mahesh is pure as the driven snow and doesn't know what aweful things the organization is doing. Crap. He is the organization; no one makes a move without his permission and they're off to Lower Slobvolia to teach the minute they do (make a move without his authorization, that is).

Religion? Pujas and yagyas look entirely religious to me. The translation of the puja doesn't leave much doubt. In India there is no such concept as separation of religion and state. Everything is religious. So, Mahesh is simply fashioning his "organization" [a.k.a. cult] the right way, the Hindu way, and especially his particular version/vision of what Hinduism should be.

Mahesh sees himself and everything he does as reinventing the world in his own image. Simple as that. To understand him, look at what he does. By their deeds and so on. Is he dangerous? Depends on who you are. If you're an insider and want to remain there, yes, he's a threat and it would be very dangerous to cross him. The worst would happen, you'd be banished from "the presence". -- Would he actually hurt someone? Sure, but only in some way that wouldn't get him in trouble! Remember, he isn't stupid and understands psychological torture and punishment.

You may be aware that a student at MUM (Iowa) murdered another student. This is gonna cost him big time, money-wise; but it will come out of MUM's operating budget, not out of Mahesh's pocket. Everyone's job is to serve him 100% as he served Guru Dev (or, at least, as he imagined he did). If you get caught, he never knew you.

As far as TM is concerned, you're better on the outside looking in (and rolling your eyes and shaking your head). TM 2x20 [i:76f33853fd]sans[/i:76f33853fd] anything to so with any other aspect of the TMO is probably not bad, although whether it is beneficial in the long-term is questionable.

But, TM is based on the premise that the mind goes in the direction of more and more ... which it surely does. It's called GREED, CRAVING, DESIRE and finally ATTACHMENT. Just doing TM and not getting involved is like explaining to a cat not to be curious.

Martin.....I think I remember you. I was in Switzerland on multiple TT, 6 Month, Governor and Sidah courses during the time you were there. I left the "movement" many years ago.....about 1978 when, after returning to the states and working at the national center in Pacific Palisades I was told to shred documents.....day after day....because the "CIA" was interested in the movement. That's when the little light went one inside that something was going wrong here.

Just a few months ago, for reasons unknown, I became interested in dredging that whole period of my life up again. I found read Nancy Cooke de Herra's book, All You Need Is Love and also Paul Mason's book. Then I found this site.....utterly fascinating and healing to read of others who were there at that time.

You've mentioned several times that a friend of yours is writing a book about his time in TM. Any news to report here?

Hi, Joe -- we may well have crossed paths in Seelisberg or elsewhere on TTC or ATR.

It seems a lot of folks abandoned Mahesh when he started blatantly selling spiritual techniques (well, he said that's what they were, others saw through the lie). He was so paranoid about the CIA, yet anyone with the course fee could become a TM teacher. He is/was sort of a joke on himself in that regard, wasn't he.

Many, many people saw through his efforts to enrich himself by first creating huge numbers of TM teachers (Mallorce/Fiuggi/LaAntilla) and then selling them his latest inventions (actually, bleeding them of their assets is a little more accurate).

Well, I am sure you know the story better than I, as I didn't work in any of the national offices and we didn't have anything to shred around Mahesh in Switzerland.

Now, you asked about my friend's book, so far, the author is meeting with literary folks with the manuscript in hand! and continuing to flesh out descriptive details prior to publication. I can only counsel patience, at this point.

I just have to ask: [i:81f04f5732]did you, by any happy chance, manage to save rather than shred something of interest? I am sure my friend would just love to have something like that!!![/i:81f04f5732]
M

Martin,

No, that was so many years ago. I'm afraid I have nothing that would be of interest. What I do remember was that it was all ridicuous stuff....food orders, housing stuff, just the daily type of thing that you imagine running the National center. Why anyone would think the CIA would have an interest in any of this was beyond me.

I have a funny story. I was on the 1st course that started to use the so-called "flying sutra." At that point we were still in chairs...not on foam. That came a few weeks later. I beleive we were in the Sonnenberg if I recall correctly. I rigged a coat hanger in my tie so that I could make the end of my tie "float" with my hand in my pocket on the other end of the coathanger. When everyone (including the Seelisberg hardcores) opened their eyes there I was with the end of my tie floating gently up towards the sky. I played dumb and kept my eyes closed. I could hear the gasps in the room. Then my friend started giggling and everyone started laughling. EXCEPT for the hardcore women, lead, most likely by Rindi. I was chastised and told that this was no laughing matter. SIEG HEIL! There will be NO LAUGHING!
Ah yes, good times.
Send me an e-mail, I have something to show you.

Hi Joe -- very funny story.

I was on the Poland Spring phase 1 course, Mahesh was consistently late, I think he really enjoyed keeping a roomful of people waiting; must have impressed the hell out of his ego.

One day, whilst we were all meditating, a hum from some electrical something could be heard, one by one we started to hum with it. Finally we all started to giggle uncontrolably. I don't remember if we were chastised, no doubt, however, we were.

It must have been one of those contributing factors that convinced Mahesh that large group meditation/rounding was the ideal environment for brainwashing. I distinctly remember in Fiuggi that he told the gathered and addlebrained (from rounding, they were probably at one time decent people) that no one could love them as he could.

What a weasel. His Wholly Weaselness. He may have done the same in Estes Park, but I can't remember. It may be in my notes, I tended to write everything down (it kept me from kibitzing). But it's too depressing to look through such stuff.

Now, I wonder why shredding the ordinary so the CIA wouldn't find out was so important to the old Humper. Maybe he was actually afraid of being found out for being so totally ordinary and basically unimpressive??? After all, besides being the first travelling TM teacher, what else was he? Even the phantasmorigacal courses he made up after La Antilla were basically the reworkings of other peoples' ideas and research.

Anybody with the course fee could find out the secrets (mantras by age and sex). Getting mind-boggled by lots of meditation. I guess he'd hardly want Government folks to also know that other than that there was nothing but mundane stuff.

So funny to think about now, but we took it so seriously.

I still am chuckling about your tie and coathanger. Brilliant. One absolute thing can probably be said for Maheshism: [i:fc55c77ae2]no sense of humour.[/i:fc55c77ae2]

I enjoyed your message. Thanks for sharing it.

M[i:fc55c77ae2][/i:fc55c77ae2]

Joe - forgot to ask: have you been following the old Weasel's latest horrific stunt? Groups of 'sidhas' in Fairfield and DC and Israel (!) to stop the violence? I understand that in Caesarea there's also a group. Would he give a toss if their hotel got bombed? Doubtful.

The randy oik is mad, mad I tell you, freaking mad.

It would be so laughable if he didn't have the irresponsibility to put people in harms way.

Do you suppose he wants martyrs, like the Christians fed to the lions in the Coloseum?

One can only shake one's head in utter wonder and sadness. TM, just by itself, is an effective diversion and limited to 2x20, probably not harmful. It's hardly meditation but with someone of Mahesh's charasmatic egomania at the helm, it's deadly.

Too bad the CIA wasn't infiltrating him and maybe doing a little black ops here and there.

Martin,

Yes indeed, I've seen notices about this latest move to get everyone to gather and "fly" to promote world peace. (Whirled Peas maybe.) And, wouldn't you know it, one day after announcing all this comes the another announcement that once you're there, advanced techniques, Sidhi's and something called "Maharishi Vedic Vibration Technology" will be offered...all for a (high) price. Oh yes, the Vedic Vibration trip costs "$900 for each standard disorder." For those lost souls still in, there are sure to be lots of takers to rid themselves of "standard disorders."

I'm curious...was there an event during your stint where the light went on with you....where you knew you'd had enough. Mine was the shredding and all the stupidity surrounding Mahesh. It also dawned on me that he wasn't an innocent in all of this....that, in fact, he was orchestrating it.

That it's all still going on, and weirder than ever, just boggles.

Hi, Joe -- The light went on, the first time, at Estes Park. I overheard a bunch of Americans explaining to Mahesh what the Rig Veda said and what it meant! The next day, he shared with us HIS wast wedic wisdom and latest insights into the meaning of SCI and the Rig Veda. But I wanted to teach TM, so I hung on.

Then, on my first ATR in Mallorca, he asked me to stay, actually, he insisted. So I became part of Interntional Staff and finally, in Fiuggi, his personal secretary in charge of his private correspondence. But I also heard him telling the bonkers rounders how only he could love them and I was in on a couple of his slips of tongue, when it was suggested he go and meet the Pope. He was literally horrified and when he realized it showed, he swore us all to secrecy. Can you imagine the drubbing he'd have gotten from all those Jesuits!!! I'm sure he instantly imagined.

Then there was the incident as he was going to his car and an elderly lady with an apparently unwell child in arms approached him. He hurried up and began rolling up the window. He was afraid! He muttered something about giving it (IT) some good food.

But the real harbinger of sunlight was the 'sidhi' course. Obviously he was tampering with the Holy Tradition. Well, I thought it was obvious.

Yet, I kept on teaching. On my last ATR I asked him for something, a technique, to make me stronger. He quipped [i:09fa7afca0]first get stronger and then ask[/i:09fa7afca0]. Then he asked me to stay AGAIN [i:09fa7afca0]and teach these courses[/i:09fa7afca0].

I returned home and about a month later abondoned teaching and began to decrease TM time. I think I stopped TM altogether when I had been doing about 6 or 8 minutes for about 2 or 3 weeks.

Yet, the old Wease still fascinates me, perhaps in the same way one is fascinated by a train wreck: too horrible to contemplate and yet too curious too take one eyes away.

I didn't know about the $900 courses. Didn't Deepcrock Chopra invent the term Vedic Vibrational Technique? I was wondering when the other sandal would drop; getting on one of these courses for only $45 dollars a day didn't sound like the old Bugger.

Oh, and you said you were going to send me something?

Hi Martin,

Yep, I remember thinking at the first Sidhi course....for the last how many years he's been saying that "super powers" and sidhis are a distraction to the goal. All of a sudden it's OK to go for tricks and of course get charged for it. it created this whole stratification to the thing.....were you a lowly meditator, a checker, a teacher, a "108", a Govenor, Parusha.....on and on. I was always amazed that so much would be promised as he was ramping up a new "course". The course would come and go, we paid our money..and nothing would change. Wait a few months and all of a sudden there was the new , improved model course. There we were again, as if we forgot everything that came before. I began to think our brains must be rotting to forget our own common sense.

I remember riding in that big Daimler-Benz with him...going to visit a womens course in some other location in Switz. I always had a dark sense of humour (as you can tell by the tie incident) and somewhere along the way I got him laughing so hard about someone (I forget now who or what) that he was almost crying. We got to the course and his dhoti was practically falling off since he had been laughing so hard. My conversation was not "cosmic" I can assure you. Comic maybe, but I was probably making fun of someone. He kind of poured himself out of the car...the ladies took one look at him all a mess and still chuckling, and then looked at me. Man, if looks could kill! It was like "What did you do to poor Maharishi???!"

The point is, over time, I began to sense that he had very human weaknesess. He got irrationally pissed at times, was increasingly paranoid, and could take delight in others misfortune.

Can you just IMAGINE what must be going on with those that have to cater to him in Vlodrop? Wow.

I do know exactly what you mean by the perverse fascination that the experience still holds. After years of just blowing it all off I'm now finding it very helpful to talk about it and try to make some sense of what happend.

Oh, yes, I was going to send you a photo. I think we're both in it. But since I'm new to the forum I can't send direct e-mails so I don't know how to contact you. What's the rule? You have to have ten posts to send an e-mail or something like that? Ahhh, rules, rules.....