Read the rules you agreed to again.

As long as you post within the stated guidelnes there should be no problem.

ok, sorry i broke the rules in was unintentional,

i will try again

my main point is i dont think u can judge the teachings of master Samael on the behievour of individuals who use them to abuse and take advantage of innocent people, of course any claim made against a group, of mind control, extortion and brain washing should be investigated and if proven condemmed for the crime that it is, but my own experieces have been the opposite, no one tryed to keep me from leaving my group, no money was ever asked for, although we did buy materials for pamphlets and things like that, anyway as i said judge the individuals on their personal conduct, but please dont condem the teachings because some one corrupts them for their own perverted use , thanks..

Hi, many of the things written about the aspects Samael advocates are quite reactionary..

Dragoshman's post seemed most simple & honest and not coloured by negative experiences. The non-ejaculation is something which is at first shocking, but on investigation I found Buddhist esoteric teachings teach the same thing. And I can see a similar doctrine within Catholic priesthood.

This manipulation issue talked of in posts is thorny. If you study NLP, hypnosis, etc, then you will know that every time someone opens there mouth in conversation there is manipulation going on, often completely unconsciously. Since I have studied this, I can use it. I am not a gnostic instructor, but since I am a gnostic student I could be in the future. If I then lead a meditation or do a lecture, I will know that the words I use can influence towards or away from gnosis. Then which should I choose?

Clearly when people are in a state of meditation this is a responsible position. In my experience the words of my teacher have always been very respectful during meditation. Many people on the forum have stated that for them astral experiences are a reality: this is also the case for myself. I know this because my ex-girlfriend was better experienced and could certainly influence my dream experiences remotely. The meditation experience involves sleepy states and so is astral too. It is surely unlikely that people will speak against Buddhist meditation?

As far as I can tell my instructors are less-experienced in manipulation than I am. Manipulation occurs everywhere throughout society. Money has been asked for me in the group only for aspects for which it is only sensible to pay - books, congresses, weekends away - actually in this respect there are times where I have not paid what was asked. At one congress in a foreign country I didn't pay a fee which everyone was meant to pay - the lady responsible for taking the money told my instructor this was not good, but in the end I did not even have to pay this - and organising events in hotels obviously costs money. I have never paid for the meditations I have attended.

My instructor can be fanatical about certain ideas from the gnostic books - he was of the opinion reiki was a form of black magic, but I wanted it clarified. He asked another member of the organisation to clarify it, and he was told he was being too fanatical. So obviously no-one is perfect within the organisation. As a point of reference I have experience of other occult groups and have witnessed things within these of the impossible nature that is often described in the books of Samael. And these were groups which had absolutely nothing to do with Samael Aun Weor. And many of their beliefs, though not consider cultish, I find far more radical than Samael's, if that is the correct word in these cases. In contrast though, the people I meet involved in the study of gnosis are more well-balanced, more caring, less prone to anger, etc.

From my reading of Blavatsky (theosophy), whatever link theosophy has with some "pure-race" idea is a misunderstanding or fabrication from the text by the Nazi party. Samael occasionally quotes from Blavatsky or Gurdjieff, etc, but this is not just thrown in without understanding - Samael evidently has a deep understanding of these texts. One of his books "Hell, Devil, Karma" elaborates on something Gurdieff states, and without having read the huge book by Gurdjieff this reference would certainly not be noticed.

It is of interest to hear quotes from older people with direct experience of Samael, Litelantes, the family, etc. I have met Samel's son/family at congress, and can say that Samael's grandson is certainly very spiritual, caring, and mature, while at the same time you can sense the tangible pressure which organisational aspects has on him, and he is definitely there from free choice. The doctrine of Samael is strict - just like that of Jesus - and while I myself gave up alcohol there is another grandson of Samael's (not the one mentioned above) who I know drinks. My point is that the individual has the free will to take on board as much as he is capable of. Without a doubt, there are many aspects of "normal" society which are not beneficial to society, and while society allows and accepts these, the gnostic doctrine takes a much more responsible approach.

As to Samael's mastery, that is as difficult to prove as all the other great religious teachers through history. I know of no-one in the current organisation passed on through Samael's family who claims mastery. Another individual who runs a gnostic group and claims to be VM Belzebuub (as mentioned above) is considered by the group I am with to be deceiving himself.

I hope this is a good honest post that will give some insight. As no-one, at least in the gnostic movement segment which I belong to claims to be perfect, there will always be some problems.

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mofason
my main point is i dont think u can judge the teachings of master Samael on the behievour of individuals who use them to abuse and take advantage of innocent people.....

But these are some of Aun Weor's claims:
"Kalki Avatar of the New Age"
"the Red Regent of Mars"
"Maitreya Buddha"
"the Archangel Samael"
"Angel of the Apocalypse"
"Avatar of Vishnu"
etc.

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mofason
ok, sorry i broke the rules in was unintentional,

i will try again
..

Let me guess it was self promotional.

Great post on the first page of this thread pointing out the distortion and attempted ownership of the term "gnosis" by the Samael Aun Weor Gnostic cult and related splinter groups. Here's the relevant extract from that post, then I'll add the actual history and meaning of the word, which wasn't included with the original.

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When a person called Victor Gomez changes his name to Samael Aun Weor because he claims that he is in touch with an entity which has that name and creates a Cult in which people are forced to accept the words of this "entity" as a sacred doctrine... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

When a person creates a Cult and forces his followers not to ever release sperm during sex and there are hundreds of testimonials of people who claim that after having joined the Cult they become Celibate because they were told that celibacy was better than releasing sperm... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

When people are coerced to donate their own houses to a Cult in order to have a better knowledge of God and demonstrate that way that they are not attached to the material world... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

When you find a stupid guru that says some stupid things like "the first master was Buddha, then Krishna, then Christ... and then I arrived, and I am like those other guys, so praise me"... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

When people follow a "Master" (and every "Master" needs servants or slaves in order to be a "Master", right?)... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

When a person like Samael Aun Weor claims that he has channeled ancient rituals which are practiced in his order and those rituals are full of literal quotes which come from a cheap Spanish translation of Wallis Budge's English translation of the Egyptian "Book of the Dead", a few rituals written by Krum-Heller and even a few quotes from Aleister Crowley's "Book of the Law" (who would probably have felt amused to know that a person that promotes a VERY DISTORTED and CHEAP version of Tantra is quoting his Book of the Law)... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

When an organization is known as "Gnosis" and yet it promotes that his students MUST have visions that match the "revelations" that a loon like Samael Aun Weor claimed to have... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

When the outcome of an organization is that several of its students end up getting absolutely alienated from society, in several cases living in mental hospitals, unable to have any social life beyond the organization... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

When an organization asks his students to promote it by leaving brief posts in forums that mention its founder or links to the webpage of the Cult... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

When Religious Fanaticism is the main teaching of a Group... and when the stupid "revelations" of a stupid man like Samael Aun Weor become the core of a group... that's NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL.

Samael Aun Weor was NOT GNOSTIC AT ALL... and that the organization he has founded and its branches are not GNOSTIC, but a dangerous brainwashing cult.

This term originally comes from ancient Greek Platonic philosophy and referred to knowledge that empowers a person. It was then later used throughout Greek philosophy more generically as knowledge derived from experience. The term later became associated with some early Christian and Jewish sects that stressed the idea of striving to gain spiritual knowledge first-hand as opposed to simply having faith.

This is of course all well and good. Problem is, we have a cult taking the word and twisting it towards themself as referring to their ideology. If we use the term correctly, gnosis in this context would be to become aware of the trickery and distortions presented to us by cults, and to then by that very knowledge, become self-empowered against similar future victimization. The term is actually self-empowering in a positive way as its original meaning implied. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Samael Aun Weor's bizarre tantric cult, or any cult or group for that matter.

This type of attempted ownership of a broad term (and twisting of its meaning) is not exclusive to Samael Aun Weor's Gnostic cult. Many groups do this, so be careful not to judge books by their covers. Judge them by what's actually going on underneath the sleek facade.

Thanks Yellow Beard.

Its funny how Victor Gomez (aka Samael Aun Weor) followers quite often deliberatly give the impression that they are some how connected to historical Gnostics.

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n
I have the misfortune to have stumbled upon this group in the northwestern U.S. There was a ten week course. This was four or so years ago.

My current experience is like that of someone poisoned, where the toxin has a progressively degenerative effect. I have been rather puzzled by the fact that going to a class for a few hours a week for a couple of months could have an effect so devastating for such a long time and to become progressively more so rather than diminish with time.

The moderator of this course had a peculiar indescribable effect on some deep level of my being. There is a feeling around the solar plexus like something having been implanted there and wreaking some indefinabole havoc on the system. Deeper, in other words, than a mere intellectual acceptance of doctrine which one can simply change one's mind about.

In short i can say that, thus far, my life has been immesurably devastated by those weeks, and it remains to be seen whether i will be able to recover. However, something seems to keep me from describing the details of my experience - a knotting up in the abdomen and scrambling of thought... But, if anyone has questions about it i will try to answer.

Primarily, I am interested in any information about this topic for the purpose of recovery and i am most grateful for what i have found here. This is the first time i have seen a true description of the institution and before now i have been unsure as to the validity of my suspicions that the "school" has affected me in this way.
Again, any helpful information on this is greatly welcomed. thanks.

Was this in Portland, OR? I had a similar experience. Long after I left the group, I felt like there was some sort of parasite in me. I think I finally was cured of that when I got involved in the Rocky Mountain Mystery School.

Thanks Silversoul for sharing. We need to hear more voices from former members. Many have not heard of this site befor.

Hello,

You were asking if anyone had any biographical information on Mark Pritchard; I do have some as I belonged to the same Gnostic movement as him in the UK and met him on a couple of occasions.

The movement was 'The Universal Chistian Gnostic Movement (New Order) i.e. the movement founded and run by 'VM Rabolu'. The movement was still fairly young in the UK when I joined in 1994 so I think it extremely unlikely that Mark Pritchard had any direct contact with Samael Aun Weor as he died before Gnosis came to the UK.

At that time it was common for people with a certain amount of time in the movement and knowledge of the teachings to move to another city and set up a centre to propogate the teachings. I believe Mark and his wife were involved in this and also spent some time abroad (maybe in Gibraltar, but I don't remember clearly).

In 1997 the movement in the UK was reorganised; apparently it should not have spread so rapidly with a few people teaching in various cities but not many members in any one place. Many centres were closed and instructors were brought in from Spain to retrain all the UK instructors (who had to pass a course). During this process there were only three functionning UK centres: Bristol, London and Edinburgh. Mark and his wife returned and became affiliated with the Edinburgh centre.

It was just after phase that I met Mark Pritchard. The centre in Birmingham had reopened and many members had gathered for a meeting / mediatation and fogueo (this was a system of learning the teachings whereby a topic was researched by reading course material and personal reflection, the student would then be questionned by other group members to test their understanding). During the session Mark did a fogueo which resulted in various 'corrections' of his understanding, many of us who had not met him before found his style and logic hard to follow but other than that he seemed inconspicuous.

Shortly after this he and his wife (whom I never met) moved to Australia and began to spread the teachings there (so I assume he must have passed the instructors' course). Several months later a communication from VM Rabolu in Columbia arrived at all gnostic centres; he and his wife had been permanently expelled from the Order due to Fanatacism and Mythomania (i.e. having delusions of grandeur and making false spiritual claims). This was displayed on the notice board of all centres. Subsequent to this, as we know, he went on to found Mystic Web.

In this post I have tried to be as objective as possible and to present the bare facts as I know / experienced them. I am familiar with the Mystic Web site and on the whole it is very true to the teachings of the New Order (on which I shall pass no judgement in this posting). However, it is not the case that VM Rabolu named Mark Pritchard as his successor (he died leaving no disciple and soon after the movement in the UK collapsed), in fact he was condemmed by him. Also, his claim to be Beelzebub which he backs using some literature of Samael Aun Weor does not stand up to scutiny. He has edited the document detailing Beelzebub's regeneration; Samael Aun Weor said Beelzebub was incarnated in female form in Holland - this can be verified through his books which are available on line.

Thank you for reading this post. I'd be happy to answer any questions arising from it.