Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: notanantiGnostic ()
Date: January 09, 2010 04:13PM

Typical it would be very helpful if you actually disclosed what group you were involved in so that those who often write on this site could help you by providing references that would be more specific to your particular situation.

Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: notanantiGnostic ()
Date: January 09, 2010 06:05PM

If TypicalSeeker is not just a cult apologist than they are someone going from one cult to another, based on their story. So the real question is what can we do to help you (without being attack) and what do you need to do for yourself? From experience I can say that if you have fallen for a cult twice than you have a personal problem with fanaticism and fundamentalism that you (and only you) have to deal with.

All the best

I'm not an anti Gnostic. I support those who seek true Gnosis.

Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: notanantiGnostic ()
Date: January 10, 2010 01:42AM

Here is a source TypicalSeeker may have missed. []. Enjoy.

Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: Keir ()
Date: January 14, 2010 01:33PM

re; Cult Formation

It would be nice if someone could show how these Samael groups are doing the following;

1. a charismatic leader who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose their power;
2. a process I call coercive persuasion or thought reform;
3. economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

I have been following one of these groups for a while now and I came here to get the 'dirt' on these guys if there is any. So far there is not one valid complaint on this thread.
Just because something isnt written down doesnt mean these things arnt happening behind close doors.
(The highlighted cases of priests molesting children is an example.)

The number of testamonies of former Samael members adds credibility to the claims.

Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: Keir ()
Date: January 14, 2010 01:53PM

Not to mention.

When government gets involved I think one's red lights should also be flashing.


" Latin American Cults Watched Following California Suicides

Apr. 07, 1997

QUITO, Ecuador (CWN) - Latin American nations have taken initiatives to control and even ban some cults under Gnostic or New Age influence in order to prevent a massive suicide similar to the "Heaven's Gate" suicide cult that occurred recently in California.

In Quito, Ecuador, authorities have banned any proselytizing by the "Gnostic Christian Universal Movement of Samael Aun Weor," due to the similar beliefs regarding the "messianic signals" of the Hale-Bopp comet. According to local police, the decision to forbid the sect's actions in Ecuador has been taken in order to "prevent any dangerous reaction such as the one that occurred in the United States."

Even though the Heaven's Gate sect has no official representation in Ecuador, some of its members have organized an international summit that was going to be held in the country. Since Ecuador is on the Equator, the country is seen as an "energy pole" by many New Age cults. The Ecuadorian government has forbidden the Heaven's Gate summit.

At the same time, in Peru, the government asked the National Police to investigate the "Alpha and Omega" cult, a Gnostic movement which promotes a messianic expectation on the arrival of a UFO that will bring universal peace and love. The sect says that Jesus was a forerunner of the interplanetary aliens they are expecting.

Similar investigation of other New Age sects are underway in Mexico, Chile, and Colombia. "

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2010 01:56PM by Keir.

Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: Keir ()
Date: January 14, 2010 02:14PM

"He copied whole writing patterns, ideas and concepts without quoting his sources"
That is not plagiarism when the authors are long dead and the copyright is expired.
No that is plaigiarizing.

Even if a copyright is expire its standard academic procedure to give proper references. Universities routinely does that (even for 100+ year old books). Other than that its still plaigiarizing and intellectual dishonesty.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2010 02:19PM by Keir.

Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: notanantiGnostic ()
Date: January 17, 2010 05:59AM

To add to what you were saying about Plagiarizing, non of said others were dead for over a hundred years and for some of the examples of dishonest I believe they were even done in the same year. Most of this issue with TypicalSeeker is his failure to engage with the argument which had already been presented. This is a major failure, although it may not be as easy to read these discussions when compared to an information page the discussion was right there. However TypicalSeeker seemed to have no liked this or felt that non of it met his standards under the excuse of all religious leaders behaviing in such a manner. So when I said it had already been discussed his only option was to dismiss that points of Plagiarism or suspected plagiarism had actually taken place.

Anyways enough on that rather screwed up situation.

Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: notanantiGnostic ()
Date: January 17, 2010 07:03AM

After the current episode of confusion I think it would lead to a better understanding to have a better organized description of each active Samael Aun Weor group. We should do this by matching up each supposed master or at least leader with the movement that they are or were connected with and a bit of a history. Also it would be to start a discussion page for each group. This should avoid confusion in the future and allow those who are seeking information to find it in an easier manner.

So far we have a clear description for the Mark Pritchards (Belzebuub) Gnostic Movement. That is discussion is here. []

and we also have a discussion for circle for investigation of gnostic anthropology CIGA, although I think it could use a lot of more information, including some of the basic information.

Here it is []

Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: notanantiGnostic ()
Date: January 18, 2010 08:55AM

I made a grammatical error in my last post. I meant to say the recent episode. Also I meant that it would be good to match up each leader with their organization, if possible. This list, which was on Wikipedia and should be in a few others places should be a good starting place for working on organizing this subject. The person on the List, Mark Pritchard has already been dealt with extensively. For his organization see the link above.

All of the relavent information for this matter should be in this discussion already, at least for the purpose of starting to organize this matter.

Gnostic Movement on wikipedia list of sects:
The following is a list of Masters who started their own school:

* Joaquín Amórtegui, VM Rabolu
* Julio Caesar Medina Vizcaíno, alias Gargha Kuichines, Patriarch II
* Jorge Eduardo Medina Precipice, alias Patriarch III
* Luis Gustavo Morales Sierra, alias Kelium Zeus Induceus
* Joab Morales Calderón, alias Samael Johab Bathor Weor
* Teófilo Bustos García, alias Lakshmi
* Olmedo Palomino Sanchez, alias Hi Shing
* Ernesto Barón, alias Anubis
* Luis Palacios Acosta
* Mark Pritchard, VM Belzebuub

I will go through the discussion and see what relavent information there is. Anyone else who is interested please don't be shy.

Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by: notanantiGnostic ()
Date: January 18, 2010 09:27AM

I'm gonna show a bit of my work here. Like a good math student. Since this discussion is already getting a little long I will post a few comments that have been made that and a few reference that may help to sort out this situation.

dragoshman wrote on October 31, 2006 08:32PM

I presented my opinions and direct experience in Ageac, spiritual comunity based on the teachings of Samael aun Weor, association leaded by Oscar Uzcategui.

Hopeful has given us info on "The movement was 'The Universal Chistian Gnostic Movement (New Order) i.e. the movement founded and run by 'VM Rabolu'." I was told that this organization had disbanded when I was in Pritchards organization but Hopeful was not so certain of that. Hopeful felt that it has simply gone underground.

A comment I made about a year ago "I would assume that his wife, Litelante (?) and his son, Osiris declared themselves masters of some sort."

The response from Keir "There has been a number of them.
Litelantes real name is Arnolda Garro de Gomez.

His children included Osiris, Isis, Horus, Hepatia.
..and that renegade one. Who couldnt take the nonsense that was going on and left."

That should be a good start.

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