Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Date: January 09, 2010 01:01AM
"Correct me if I'm wrong Typical, but it appears that you have no actual experience with any Samael Aun Weor group."
Ok, you are wrong. I have lots of experience with them.
"Did Samael truly plagiarize?" Yes as far as the question is concerned for the definition of a cultic group and also..."
In other words, it is a baseless accusation. Please show examples or be revealed as a clueless gossip monger.
"He copied whole writing patterns, ideas and concepts without quoting his sources"
That is not plagiarism when the authors are long dead and the copyright is expired. Writing patterns? No one writes in the Samael style... if Samael had copied someone else's 'pattern' his books would have been much improved.
> "Please quote the SAW words and then quote the Gurdjieff, Ouspenky or whatever.
" Pretty sure we have already done this. Since I don't really want to read any of those mind fuckers right now, I do not really want to go into further efforts at this time.
No, you haven't 'already done this'. Not even close. Can you please give an example of something that justifies the accusation, "mind *uckers"?
"You see that's the problem. No one is repeating gossip here,"
Yes, you are. I pointed that out clearly. Please try to answer my questions in a more direct manner.
"we are handling a messy situation the best we can. All of the claims that you mention are sourced in at least one of the internet sources, some academic and some from organizations. "
More hand-waving...How about some clear references?
"These people were not exactly accountable when they were alive, so it is pretty hard to have clear cut answers about them after their death. If you look at one of the best known modern claimants Mark Pritchard (who claims to be Bezlebuub), you will see some real problems with verifying much about him. He does not state the Welsh town he grew up in and nor does he state where he lives now. No one can research and verify his claims of his story. a real cult leader."
So what? Who cares where he grew up? What difference does that make?
"His lack of accountable, which also makes research pretty hard, is damning evidence in itself."
'Damning' how? Again, please substantiate your accusations with something substantial.
"We have been trying to translate or find translations of Spanish papers and research where possible to be able to verify things as possible. You will see that I have taken as many "rumors that written here and verified them to the degree I am able. I think we have a post a page or two back of someone who heard a lot of it directly from his mdoern followers. "
In other words you have not verified anything yet... you are just repeating rank, malicious gossip.
> "Perhaps you could give a few examples of the fear rhetoric and manipulation?"
"I think this has been done, in general. But also remember that we are speaking about different groups and organizations that follow one mans teachings as well as culture of running an organization. So there will be variations and degrees of behaviour. This testimony, which you are quoting can be seen as a primary source for what its worth. "
It has not been done. No examples at all were provided, neither specific nor general.
>"I have a few issues with these Samael based groups but so far what I read here does not seem to reflect reality. "
"Yes but your experience is not the only one we are dealing with here. "
(So now you acknowledge my 'experience' which contradicts your opening statement....)
>"I wish the 'injured' parties here would be more specific"
"People here are only comfortable with discussing this matters to the extent that they can."
Well then, that extent is totally lame. Childish whining and pointless complaining is all I see.
" They tend to deal with the matter to get closure from their experience and than move on. What we actually need is for a psychologist,...'"
What you really need is to back up your accusations and complaints with something substantial.
"References were made to 'rituals'... perhaps a few details would be forthcoming? "
"I have already described, about a year ago, the limited rituals which I participated in. "
That is NOT true....rituals were only mentioned, they were not described.