Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
Quetzal
()
Date: April 28, 2009 02:00AM
Quote
notanantiGnostic
Hi Quetzal some coordination will be required. Perhaps we should just translate it and post it here for now. I found it very hard to find any anti Weor writings because I all my searches came up with were pro Samael sites that used the word cult, usually with Victor Gomez aka Samael Aun Weor using the phrase cult of personality, which by the way sounds a lot like what he was doing.
Hi notanantiGnostic,
msanchez contacted me some weeks ago in order to request some stuff from me to his website. I am just waiting for him to open his new site to collaborate as much as I can with him.
I agree with you, I also strongly believe that it is necessary to create a English site which offers all that info that can be collected over the internet but it is only in Spanish and that is precisely what msanchez is working on at the moment.
Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
notanantiGnostic
()
Date: April 28, 2009 02:17AM
Sounds good. Keep up the good work. Perhaps This site is enough for the English world for now.
Anyone please let me know if there is anything that you think should be translated into English from Quetzals website, which is linked on a previous page, and reposted here. I will do my best to run it through Bablefish a page at a time and repost it here so that it is available here. Others can of course do that as well. I am assuming that Quetzal is ok with that. To me it seems that get the information out there to anyone who wants it is the greatest priority.
Personally my thoughts are now towards formulating a Gnostic (and I mean real Gnosticism) response to the teachings of Samael Aun Weor. This will take a lot of learning and a lot of time. There is an increased interested in Gnosticism and related matters and I think others may fall into the trap that I did.
Anyone please let me know if there is anything that you think should be translated into English from Quetzals website, which is linked on a previous page, and reposted here. I will do my best to run it through Bablefish a page at a time and repost it here so that it is available here. Others can of course do that as well. I am assuming that Quetzal is ok with that. To me it seems that get the information out there to anyone who wants it is the greatest priority.
Personally my thoughts are now towards formulating a Gnostic (and I mean real Gnosticism) response to the teachings of Samael Aun Weor. This will take a lot of learning and a lot of time. There is an increased interested in Gnosticism and related matters and I think others may fall into the trap that I did.
Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
Keir
()
Date: May 02, 2009 06:34AM
Quote
QuetzalI think this is a good start. Looking forward to msanchez's site.Quote
notanantiGnostic
msanchez contacted me some weeks ago in order to request some stuff from me to his website. I am just waiting for him to open his new site to collaborate as much as I can with him.
I agree with you, I also strongly believe that it is necessary to create a English site which offers all that info that can be collected over the internet but it is only in Spanish and that is precisely what msanchez is working on at the moment.
Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
Quetzal
()
Date: June 20, 2009 05:07PM
Hi guys,
We have already received several complains about defamation. It seems that Baron´s lawyers are pushing hard in order to stop our efforts to continue our job.
As we are on a free host it seems quite difficult to keep the site open. As far as I know, they are claiming to the server owners, threating them with claims in order to force them to close our web otherwise they will proceed with legal actions.
I have not had any news from msanchez and I would like to know if he is still pondering about opening that site. I was also wondering if having a North American server would make things easier for us to work.
Anyway, it looks like our site will be wiped out, and there is little we can do.
We have already received several complains about defamation. It seems that Baron´s lawyers are pushing hard in order to stop our efforts to continue our job.
As we are on a free host it seems quite difficult to keep the site open. As far as I know, they are claiming to the server owners, threating them with claims in order to force them to close our web otherwise they will proceed with legal actions.
I have not had any news from msanchez and I would like to know if he is still pondering about opening that site. I was also wondering if having a North American server would make things easier for us to work.
Anyway, it looks like our site will be wiped out, and there is little we can do.
Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
notanantiGnostic
()
Date: June 20, 2009 09:29PM
Well Quetzal I guess these things are to be expected. Perhaps using a server with a minimal fee would be more helpful in defending your right of free speech. Have you emailed Rick Ross about your situation? He might have some advise for keeping information cults don't want on the internet up. I want him to set up a Samael Aun Weor information section with articles, but I am not sure if he is willing to do that yet.
It is strange that these so called spiritual leaders feel the need of the divine assistance of lawyers, I have seen in in the case of Mark Pritchard and now we see it with Baron. From what I understand the way to fight defamation is to show that you had reasonable evidence that the information was true. However keep in mind that I am not a lawyer. It is interesting that they are not really going for damages but are more interested in silencing freedom of speech. How is freedom of speech anti spiritual?
It is strange that these so called spiritual leaders feel the need of the divine assistance of lawyers, I have seen in in the case of Mark Pritchard and now we see it with Baron. From what I understand the way to fight defamation is to show that you had reasonable evidence that the information was true. However keep in mind that I am not a lawyer. It is interesting that they are not really going for damages but are more interested in silencing freedom of speech. How is freedom of speech anti spiritual?
Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
Quetzal
()
Date: June 23, 2009 02:15AM
We have already decided to continue on another forum which is already available, although we will let you know soon.
We are also thinking of paying for a regular server in which enjoy more freedom, although we will be more exposed so we are looking forward to get some counselling on those subjects.
msanchez have not replied yet, I will contact him personally to see if he is still thinking of opening an English site.
Greets.
We are also thinking of paying for a regular server in which enjoy more freedom, although we will be more exposed so we are looking forward to get some counselling on those subjects.
msanchez have not replied yet, I will contact him personally to see if he is still thinking of opening an English site.
Greets.
Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
notanantiGnostic
()
Date: June 23, 2009 02:30AM
Hi Quetzal,
Sounds like good news, please keep us informed. One thing that may also be of mutual interest is posted about "Samaul Aun Weor" on Wkipedia and the false quotations they use to justify what is written. I am not sure if the Englsih and Spanish versions have the same content but there is some real dishonesty on the part of the posters. Wkipedia is effectively acting as a front for Samael Aun Weor supporter.
Well we are sharing good news I thought I would bring it to your attention and anyone else who may be following this thread what a strong argument has now been made against the Gnostic Movement/Gnosticweb led by Mark Pritchard Aka Bezlebuub. Just in the last week and a half there have been some good developments. [forum.culteducation.com] That is where the really interesting developments start, but of course what is said before is also quite good. The arguments against Pritchards movement would probably be the same for other Samael Aun Weor schools, other there are also some major differences.
Sounds like good news, please keep us informed. One thing that may also be of mutual interest is posted about "Samaul Aun Weor" on Wkipedia and the false quotations they use to justify what is written. I am not sure if the Englsih and Spanish versions have the same content but there is some real dishonesty on the part of the posters. Wkipedia is effectively acting as a front for Samael Aun Weor supporter.
Well we are sharing good news I thought I would bring it to your attention and anyone else who may be following this thread what a strong argument has now been made against the Gnostic Movement/Gnosticweb led by Mark Pritchard Aka Bezlebuub. Just in the last week and a half there have been some good developments. [forum.culteducation.com] That is where the really interesting developments start, but of course what is said before is also quite good. The arguments against Pritchards movement would probably be the same for other Samael Aun Weor schools, other there are also some major differences.
Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
Keir
()
Date: June 23, 2009 09:31AM
This should be no suprise. Its an intimidation tactic used to silence their critics.Quote
Quetzal
Hi guys,
We have already received several complains about defamation. It seems that Baron´s lawyers are pushing hard in order to stop our efforts to continue our job.
As we are on a free host it seems quite difficult to keep the site open. As far as I know, they are claiming to the server owners, threating them with claims in order to force them to close our web otherwise they will proceed with legal actions.
I have not had any news from msanchez and I would like to know if he is still pondering about opening that site. I was also wondering if having a North American server would make things easier for us to work.
Anyway, it looks like our site will be wiped out, and there is little we can do.
Its always best to make a copy of everything on a site just in case it goes down or is hacked etc.
Besides what notanantiGnostic suggested.
Its important how you word things.
Instead of calling a group "a cult" you can safely say "cultish" or "cultish group" instead.
You shouldnt make statment of claims unless you can back it up (over all best to avoid making claims all together). Best to use words like "questionible organization" "suspicious organization" "dubious organization" etc.
You can also put a disclaimer on the site as well. Something like "The opinions & statement here are not necessarily those of the site owner and site owner. The site owner makes no claims"...etc
As NotanantiGnostic suggested you can contact Rick Ross about how to word your site to prevent any liable challenges to the site. Rick Ross gets tons of liable threats by cults every year but they dont have a case against him because of the disclaimer he had instal.
Another site you might want to talk to the owner is www.bullshido.com
The site is about exposing fraud in the martial arts etc and they have gotten tons of "legal" threats as well and they have been around for 6 or so years now. Their complainers are unable to shut the site down due to once again the protection of the legal disclaimer on their site.
Also you might want provide a link from your new site to this site. Just a kind gesture for Mr. Rick Ross.
And it would be also a public service.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2009 09:45AM by Keir.
Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
Quetzal
()
Date: June 23, 2009 10:17PM
Thank you very much for all that info Keir, it is quite useful for us right now.
Following your advice, I will contact Rick Ross to get a good disclaimer for the new forum. To be honest, we have already contacted a lawyer to get some tips to write a disclaimer to protect our site. Anyway, we will see how much we can expect from a free forum before openning the "real" one.
We will keep you inform for sure.
Thanks for all your support guys.
Regards.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2009 10:18PM by Quetzal.
Following your advice, I will contact Rick Ross to get a good disclaimer for the new forum. To be honest, we have already contacted a lawyer to get some tips to write a disclaimer to protect our site. Anyway, we will see how much we can expect from a free forum before openning the "real" one.
We will keep you inform for sure.
Thanks for all your support guys.
Regards.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2009 10:18PM by Quetzal.
Re: Samael Aun Weor ("gnostic" cult)
Posted by:
Keir
()
Date: June 25, 2009 04:12AM
Your welcome Quetzal.
I think you can also safely submit 'Testamonies' of ex members. As long as you can have a disclaimer that states something like: "these views or opinions dont neccesarily reflect those of the site owner and its up to the reader's discretion to believe in them or not." etc.
I think you can also safely submit 'Testamonies' of ex members. As long as you can have a disclaimer that states something like: "these views or opinions dont neccesarily reflect those of the site owner and its up to the reader's discretion to believe in them or not." etc.
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