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notanantiGnostic
Interesting that his teachings can be directly, in ideas anyways to those of Aleister Crowley ...

He took teachings from a number of sources. Such as from the Theosophical Society, Krumm Heller's FRA, Gurdjief, Don Mario Roso de Luna, etc.

He's mainly a synthesizer. The Golden Dawn etc was synthesizing systems long befor he was even born.
Various occult groups were practicing sexual alchemy and character refinement long befor Weor was doing it.

One does not need Weor or an organization to practice spiritual exercises or study religion. One can go out on their own initiative and research it themselves.
In my opinion Weor had a very superficial understand of other religions (Buddhism, Islam etc). When you talk to authentic Budddhist monks or sufi Muslim imans they have have such an indepth understanding and knowledge that its overwhelming. It shows how complicated these religions really are and not what the erroneous & superficial stuff Weor preaches.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2009 03:17AM by Keir.

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notanantiGnostic
Thanks for that reference, Keir

It would be interesting to figure out how many people since Victor Gomez Sr. have declared themselves to be masters. I know of Joaquin Amortequi (Robolu) and Mark Pritchard. I would assume that his wife, Litelante (?) and his son, Osiris declared themselves masters of some sort.

There has been a number of them.
Litelantes real name is Arnolda Garro de Gomez.

His children included Osiris, Isis, Horus, Hepatia.
..and that renegade one. Who couldnt take the nonsense that was going on and left.

Hi Jeff (notanantiGnostic),

In my opinion, it is not right to spread lies about someone, a group of people, or an organisation. The Gnostic Movement is an open and democratic organisation.

The quote that I think you are talking about, which is in the book Secret Knowledge, Hidden Wisdom (which is for sale to the public at www.absolutepublishingpress.com), is misrepresented. I will post it here:

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Q: I have been debating with the issue of whether or not joining the military is a proper decision in consistency with the teachings of modern Gnosis. My hunch is that it is not. On the one hand people tell me, and I used to believe, that violence is wrong but self-defence is not. But then I remember that Jesus advocated extreme non-violence, and when I think about this, it makes much sense to me, and I like that.
But mainly my father is telling me that it is a selfish way of looking at the world, because if I allow myself to be killed in the name of faith, I still leave my family behind to suffer. That is where my main conflict is. What would the teachings of modern Gnosis guide me to do in this situation?

A: A country needs to have military forces to defend itself in case anyone attacks it. If you don't defend yourself, you will allow evil to prevail. Would you let an idiot kill your familiy if you were able to stop him, even if it meant killing him? If you didn't do that, you would get karma for not defending what you should have. The person who does those evil things is no better than a demon.
But the country or person needs to make sure that they do not cause the attack on themselves in the first place.

Q: If one chooses to join the military and truly believes in their heart of hearts that what they are doing is defence, then they are doing the right thing, correct? Well what if they are just a victim of propaganda, and do not realize that it was their country that initiated a war?

A: If there is a choice in joining the military, then someone who wants to take up the path would have to look into whehter joining the military would allow them the time and opportunities that they need to be able to help other people with their spiritual progress.
They also have to look into what was expected of them when joining and what the government is doing. Bear in mind too that it puts you in physical danger; you need to see whether the cause justifies the risk, becuase the body is needed for this work - that's why we are here. Different countries get up to different things - being a pawn for a corrupt government is not recommended.
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Here the author, Belzebuub answers to a specific question about joining the military. I happen to agree with what he says there and I think most people would. You are giving people the wrong impression and view of what he says, which is not right, obviously trying to discredit him unjustly by taking things out of context and misrepresenting them. It is obviously anyone's right to voice their opinions, but quite another to openly and unjusly slander someone - this shows no respect for others, nor common decency.

On this forum, you are using people’s concerns to get them against someone who is perfectly innocent. Also, you are trying to harm an individual and an organisation just because you have a distorted view of them. I am sure that the purpose of this forum is not to provide an avenue for unjustified slander and lies against an individual or an organisation.

You attended one of the The Gnostic Movement's Centres and you also left it of your own volition; we haven't tried to keep you or anything like that as you have hinted in many of your posts here. In fact, we were very accomodating with you and tried to help as best as we could, even with your condition of having been depressed in the past and diagnosed with ADD. We had also attended to your request to run a particular course just for you when you asked us to. Just to mention another of many things, we gave you numerous lifts home from there as friends. We find it strange that here you are today vehemently attacking us and the author of the books that you decided to read and try to practise what was in them, just because you no longer agree with what we do and have stopped attending.

This whole thing is puzzling, food for thought.

I have decided to participate in this forum now to put things into context, because many people could become victims of your own misinterpretations and misconceptions, which wouldn't be fair to them.

Jordan

Spreading Lies? Only someone who believes that someone is either with them or against them (a fanatic) would accuse someone of telling ties , because they have a difference of opinion with him.

I should mention to all those who are interested that this is the first time, that I am aware of this book being available to general public. Why don't you make it readable on google books or some manner like that so everyone can judge your believes?

The author Mark Pritchard (who believes a fantasy that he is a mythical creature called Belzebuub) seems to be a hypocrit in my opinion. If the entire world is meant to be living in a state of "awareness" then why would there be a need for military or nation states for that matter? Again I am not a liar for having different opinion then you. My opinion stands.

It is funny for you to talk about common decency and respect for others when you participate in an organization that has no respect for any other group or individuals spiritual beliefs.

To quote Mark Pritchard's Secret Knowledge, Hidden Wisdom

pg 203 " Those who betray or reject a Master of the White lodge will not awaken, even if they practice Alchemy" implying that people have no choice but to agree with him.

I can find other points to this matter if anyone needs them.

"On this forum, you are using people’s concerns to get them against someone who is perfectly innocent." Someone who is perfectly innocent does not claim to be a god or godlike.

I never claimed that you tried to keep me. However Mark Pritchard writes and teaches in a manner that attempt to create a great deal of false fear in those who wish to leave his perverted mix of fundamentalist Christianity and theosophy. If you looked at the definition of a cult attempting to force something to return that is not required in order for a group to qualify as a cult.

I would suggest that you not speak of my private matters, as that would not be legally unwise for you as an organization. Also I know a lot of dirt about you and how you joined the Gnostic Movement, specifically information that displays the state that a person is typically in when they make the mistake of becoming involved in a cult.

A friend by the way does not talk down to you and assume that they know more then you. On a number of occasions you spoke to me a a very abusive manner with anger I should add, because i asked a question you didn't like. Personally I fell betrayed by all of you. I trusted you that this belief system of yours was had some basis behind it and that Secret Knowledge, Hidden Wisdom was not just a ripoff of bits and pieces of other religions. That it didn't explain at all how got past the nutty teachings of man who called himself Samael Aun Weor.

By the way I don't by it that you don't have a belief system, in fact you have a thick belief system, which include the belief that you don't have one.

In case anyone is interested Jordan is the person who I would consider to be the local leader here in Toronto. They deceptively try to get people to attend their centre by offering courses in meditation, dreams and Self discovery. And if you pass all that they might let you take their Gnostic Wisdom course, if they like you of course.

Jordan how do you explain the fact that Mark Pritchard was born in 1964 but Samael Aun Weor predicted that Belzebuub was to be born right away in 1950. It seems to me that Mr. Pritchard was simply taking advantage of a myth that existed in fractured organization to assert as much authority as possible. He has structured with his current organization to allow the least amount of descent possible. A practice that is commonly seen in fundamentalist and fanatic organizations and individuals.

My personally reasons for writing here are to attempt to put some resistance against an organization that is spreading a very unhealthy message, filled with dishonestly, fear mongering, and ethnocentrism.

I have nothing personal against any involved in the Gnostic Movement, except for Mark Pritchard, who displays the typical behaviour of a psychopath and when you watch him on video, available on youtube, you will notice the typical characteristics of a liar or at least an untrustworthy person.

I feel great compassion for those who are still involved with his corrupt movement and hope that they some day choice to look at the world with an open heart and look at the Victor Gomez with a critical mind. Egos don't exist and in fact the word ego actually means the conscious mind.

This is a common tactic of Weor supporters to drown out any dissenting voices and hijack the thread.

Funny thing is various Gnostic sites has systemically blocked any posters from voicing any criticism of weor.

They have also played dirty tactics like email spam sites & intimdiation tactics that are critical of weor. Like that sos-gnostic.org site that use to up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2009 05:24AM by Keir.

Thanks Keir,
I appreciate your support. What happened to the delay of the postings with moderator looking at them?

I think I will have to start my full critique of Pritchard for sure next week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2009 05:22AM by notanantiGnostic.

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Jordan
................you also left it of your own volition; we haven't tried to keep you or anything like that as you have hinted in many of your posts here.

This is a perpetuation of a common MYTH that cults hold people against their will.
Infact the bulk majority of them dont.

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Jordan
Hi Jeff (notanantiGnostic),
.... The Gnostic Movement is an open and democratic organisation.

Jordan

Funny thing is alot of cults claim they are an open and democratic organization.
Infact many manipulate members using other means.

Note: The reason why Jordan posted someones personal name is that its an INTIMIDATION tactic. (Wether he is the person or not or someone else pretending to be him is speculation.)
Its an attempt to shut up those who who speak up against the group "we know who you are" type of threat.
This is very cultish.

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Jordan
..
In my opinion, it is not right to spread lies about someone, a group of people, or an organisation. Jordan

Spreading lies?
More like voicing an opinion thats not of your own.
Funny thing is on various Weor sites they have systematically blocked anyone from voicing any criticism of Weor.
They say thngs like: "This is Weor site.....Not a criticism of Weor site" and then prohibit them from posting anything against the leader.

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Jordan
..
On this forum, you are using people’s concerns to get them against someone who is perfectly innocent. Also, you are trying to harm an individual and an organisation .....
Jordan

"Harm"? (This is a perfect example of using loaded language folks.)

The reason he used the word "harm" is that he's attempting to suggests that notaantiGnostic is some how physically "dangerious".

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Jordan
...accomodating with you and tried to help as best as we could, even with your condition of having been depressed in the past and diagnosed with ADD. Jordan

(This is another cultish tactic folks.)
1)Trying to DEMONIZE those who speak against the movement.
2)And trying to get the critics labbled as being "insane". In an attempt to discredit the critics.


btw having ADD or depression does not make a person insane or being a liar. Infact with the exception of having ADD many people with ADD live perfecty normal lives.

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Jordan
In fact, we were very accomodating with you and tried to help as best as we could........
We had also attended to your request to run a particular course just for you when you asked us to. Just to mention another of many things, we gave you numerous lifts home from there as friends.
Jordan

(This is another cult tactic folks)

1) Its an attempt manipulate the person using GUILT
2) Its an attempt to manipulate the person by making them feel OBLIGATED in returning some favor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2009 06:13AM by Keir.

To whom it may concern:

Personal attacks will not be allowed here per the rules.

Break the rules and you will be banned from this message board.

I just thought I should mention that I don't lie and am not a dishonest person. I am not writing on this website because I think I can write here without being accountable for what I say, as I have stated before i am writing here because i know this forum is not likely to be shut down. Personally i don't care if anyone knows who I am, I was only being anonymous because it is one of the rules of this site.

If anyone disagrees with anything I say in any of the forum on this site, just a reminder there are two others that pertaining to the teachings of Samael Aun Weor, feel free to call me to task on it. I am allowed to think for myself so I am able to explain myself if I need to.

Here are two other posts I have posted in related to the garbage teachings of the man who called himself Samael Aun Weor

[forum.culteducation.com] and [forum.culteducation.com]

Soon I hope to start a new post that will rip apart all the teachings of Mark H. Pritchard (who calls himself Belzebuub). That should be of interest to people like Jordan. I will post a link here when I start it.