Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: sixtyseven ()
Date: August 10, 2013 03:23PM

The Run for Peace.
The cult has a lot of different faces to infect you like a virus and what looks first a good cause will be a trap of exploitation later. peace run The following clip from the sgi Malaysia is an example for their hidden agenda, when you look at the mark 0:53 and 3:22 you can identify the hidden message of the cult by a chanting woman and the young women with gakkai tricolours on faces.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Nichijew ()
Date: August 10, 2013 09:37PM

The Run for Peace.
The cult has a lot of different faces to infect you like a virus and what looks first a good cause will be a trap of exploitation later. peace run The following clip from the sgi Malaysia is an example for their hidden agenda, when you look at the mark 0:53 and 3:22 you can identify the hidden message of the cult by a chanting woman and the young women with gakkai tricolours on faces.

Subterfuge is definitely a cult tactic, whether speaking of the Unification Church, Scientology, or the Soka Gakkai. They could never win converts playing it straight.


Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: August 10, 2013 10:11PM

I think that part of my frustration at this point is this: Most of the people on this mb (or any of the other mb's on this forum) have made up their minds to leave their respective cults. While this is wonderful for us, how do we reach people who are being sucked into cults every day? And anyone who stumbles across this website in doing research as to whether to join or not is, more than likely, going to ask the person trying to bring them in about it. As mentioned previously, sgi (as well as any cult) has an answer for anything, and of course we are enemies of sgi . . . in thrall to the priesthood, disgruntled former members or "losers." And, in the midst of all the love-bombing by district members towards a new person, unless someone has prior experience in a cult, they are highly unlikely to even do a lot of research other than maybe going to the sgi site, reading the content there and thinking "this sounds good to me." Religious freedom - in the US, anyway - is sanctioned by the constitution and, since there is nothing in the legal system that really defines what a cult is or who might fall under that designation, there seems to be little we can do. One person standing outside of a center holding a sign that says "sgi is a cult - stay away!" isn't very effective, and so many of them are on private property that that activity would be difficult anyway. There might even be a danger of being prosecuted for religious prosecution.

Politically, I think I'm probably about as liberal as a person can be, but I really see how the "freedom of religion" thing is a two-edged sword. The cult definitions that we're all pretty familiar with are so very open to interpretation that pretty much any organized religion could be designated as a cult. Talk to a rabid catholic, jew, Presbyterian, whatever, and you'll get a similar level of zombie-tude - where do we draw the line (in legal terms) between religious fanaticism and cult behavior?

Sgi and other cults in the US are able to hide behind the constitution, so there's really no apparent way to get this issue into the public eye so that there's some level of awareness about it. We all know too well how manipulative and dishonest these groups are, and how easy it is to be recruited into them.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: August 11, 2013 01:55AM


While this is wonderful for us, how do we reach people who are being sucked into cults every day?
Fix the family structure so that people aren't growing up damaged and dysfunctional. Until people are healthy, they will remain vulnerable to the "instant social circle" these cults hold out to them.

What it appears to me is that the label "religion" means that a BUSINESS that can use it gains super-favorable operating circumstances. No taxes! No oversight! No rules! They can exploit in a way that, in, say, an investment company, would be criminal. But so long as it can call itself "religion", ah, well, then that's a horse of a different color! Do whatever you like, then!

We need to get rid of the tax holiday for religion in the US. It is not a constitutional provision; it is simply a tradition. Several presidents have been against it, including Teddy Roosevelt. Take away the attractiveness of the business of religion, and you'll find far fewer culty shenanigans. The original reason that Christianity - because, let's face it, back in the day it was ALL Christianity here - was able to get this break was because churches were the first public buildings in communities. Whether pilgrims, colonists, or settlers, the first public building built was a church. The church provided necessary public functions - public meeting place, the way to disseminate information, the bells to ring to sound the alarm or alert the community of changes (marriage, death, etc.), a place where people could gather and stay in an emergency, providing burial services to the community, where the early schools would meet. Now, churches no longer serve this function. Burials are conducted by mortuaries in public cemeteries; for emergency lodging, the Red Cross sets up in school gymnasiums and even football stadiums; we have newspapers and phones and computers and TVs to get our news and information; and we have separate public buildings for our public schools. Etc. etc. etc. Whereas the church was the monolithic public building in a small town, there's no correlate in the cities, where churches (and synagogues and temples and what have you) are abundant, and often quite small.

So, since the public functions that churches once provided are no longer being provided, let's get rid of the tax exemption that religious institutions have been so generously awarded. Tax them. Make them file financial statements, which will be checked by the government. Let the IRS match up their stated income against their bank balances and investments. Let EEEEEVERYBODY know the level of bidness religious organizations are doing. That will not only cut down on the number of "churches" (Scientology, I'm looking at YOU - and the SGI too!) but it will also give those members closest to the door the nudge they need to break free.

There is a ray of sunshine - the Millennial generation, those who turned 18 in 2000 or later, are the least likely to be involved in organized religion and the most likely to define themselves as irreligious (the "nones") and atheist. Even young people who are very devout and committed throughout their teens turn 18 and disappear from the churches. Granted, many if not most of these were active in their families' churches, where attendance was likely compulsory and where the kids realized that, if they went along, the more devout they became, the better their parents would treat them. Maybe their parents would even love them better than church if the kids were zealous enough! But once they turn 18 and have the right to say "No", they say it. No religion in the world is growing by democratic adult choice; they only claim growth by their members' birth rates (even though when these babies grow up, they typically leave) and by cooking the membership books. No major religion has been able to appeal to large numbers of adults; the most you'll find is "switching", from one sect of the religion they already embrace to another. This is characteristic of the "megachurch" movement, where the megachurch gobbles up the congregations of smaller churches. Some years ago, a Christian research organization released data that showed that, for every 1,000 start-up churches, 4,000 churches close their doors forever. Even in the US, where church membership is seen as a social necessity, growth overall has been stagnant or declining for the last 50 years. More than twice as many people say they attend churches than actually go.

There will always be people who are suffering and who are vulnerable. Religious groups are filled with the dysfunctional, the people who can't manage to create or maintain a social circle, because they figure the religious organization will HAVE to take them. Until people are better able to meet their own social needs elsewhere, religion will continue to serve a purpose. If we recognize them as the corporations they are and subject their activities to proper scrutiny and regulation, we can mitigate some of the damage they do. They're not special and we need to stop treating them as if they are.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: August 11, 2013 04:34AM


The members told her to try their practices for 90 days as a trial run.
“They told me that if it didn’t work, I had nothing to lose,” Manivong said.
This is the fascinating part - it takes about 90 days for a practice (whatever it is) to become a habit. So the SGI, under the guise of encouraging people to test it out for themselves, is actually setting up the ideal framework for this "trial" to become a habit. And we all know how difficult it is to stop something once it has become a habit!

She said the methods make this form of Buddhism different because it is about changing oneself from within, while traditional temple Buddhism seeks external help.
False. This person has a misunderstanding of what Buddhism is, probably because of having absorbed the SGI's twisted perspective. That is a mischaracterization of Buddhism.

Remember how Makiguchi (or was it Toda?) described the gohonzon as "a machine that produces happiness"?? THAT's "external help"! Chanting overwhelmingly is focused on activating external help. Pot kettle.

I'm reminded of the study from a coupla years ago that found that people who got their news from Fox News not only had *less* knowledge about world events than people who didn't, but the Fox Newsies were more likely to be misinformed.

the chant “nam-myoho-reng-kyo,” which Manivong translated as devotion to oneself, mystic law, the lotus flower and the voice or teaching of the Buddha.
This is interesting - I have never heard a translation that includes self-centeredness before.

A major symbol of Nichiren Buddhism is the lotus flower. The flower blooms in muddy water, which represents overcoming situations and problems.
The lotus flower not only blooms, but also seeds, which represents simultaneous cause and effect in life.
And yet the lotus is one of the oldest motifs found in Buddhism and Buddhist artworks. Huh - funny. You mean Nichiren didn't invent or discover the lotus which everyone had previously overlooked (soon he'll be portrayed as an early biologist/botanist - just you wait!), the way President Ikeda invented the fife to honor the founding of the Kotekitai???

Manivong said this event parallels SGI’s goal in preventing violence. She said one of SGI’s main goals is to abolish nuclear weapons by 2030.
And yet the SGI condones and supports the US's imperialist war-invasions of other countries. That's an odd way to prevent violence and seems like the opposite of working to abolish weapons of any kind.

Labelling of disappointment, or because my desires are not fulfilled:

1) The desire was badly formulated: it was not clear, was ambiguous,
too big, too small, unreachable … etc.etc.,
Once I met a woman SGI member who told me that, when you're chanting for something, you need to be really really explicit and detailed in your "request" (what was that about not seeking "external help", again??). She said she was chanting for a Cadillac, and at some point down the road, a guy gave her a toy Cadillac. So she got her Cadillac O_O It was HER problem for not being more specific, you see. I am NOT kidding!!! It's that same "monkey's paw" kind of backhanded-punishment-for-asking that you find in Christianity - how many times have you heard SGI members say "Be careful what you ask for"?? WHY should it be dangerous to ask?? Unless you will be punished just for having the effrontery to ask, of course. THIS IS NOT BUDDHISM!

5) for more: the protection of the Gohonzon appear to the adept, who
does not know that, now if he was satisfied his desire, that would in
some way harmful to him,
More of the same. "You can't have what you want/need because it would be bad for you." Who's in charge of our lives here, again?? As a famous Hollywood starlet said upon hearing the Christian criticism of her decision to pose nude for Playboy, "If it's a mistake, I'll learn from it. If it's not a mistake, I'll profit from it." And profit she did!

This attitude infuriates me just as much as the "good Christians" who refuse to give the homeless money "because they'll just spend it on alcohol/drugs." Wow - judgmental much?? Who are YOU to decide for these other people?? Are you their daddy?? Are they children?? I give homeless people MONEY! THEY will choose how to use it - that's what empowered individuals do! If they need alcohol or drugs, so be it. Since proper medical care that might alleviate those needs isn't available or accessible to them, let them self-medicate. They have that right. Besides, if you give to an organization, only a portion ever reaches the needy (if any - religious groups are the most inefficient, most likely corrupt organizations around). If you give the money to the homeless people, they get 100% of your gift. Ah, but you don't get any tax deduction then! Where are your priorities? Do you want to help someone else or get more for yourself??

Either you can chant for whatever you want, meaning that you will get whatever you chant for (Theresa Hauber explicitly stated this in her experience about trying out the practice - says she made a list on a piece of yellow legal paper, front and back, and she got every single entry), OR you can chant as much as you like, but that doesn't mean you'll get anything you chant for. People get stuff in life, particularly if they're trying to get it. They get stuff without having to chant. So if YOU have to chant just to get the same stuff other people are clearly getting without needing to chant, what does this say about YOU?? Are you THAT much of a loser? Is life THAT much stacked against you? Why is it that the "Buddhist gods" and the "protection of the gohonzon" don't make your life any better? Why are you having to runrunrun on that wheel just to barely keep up, never actually getting ahead, watching others who don't practice pass you by because they've put their efforts into good common sense activities instead, getting education, accumulating work experience, seeking additional training, learning new skills, while YOU sit there on your ass, mumbling magic words that you expect to bring you the same benefit without your having to put in that kind of practical effort??

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: rensvwik ()
Date: August 11, 2013 05:42AM

Hi, everyone. I haven't posted for a few months. I had asked for advice because I was planning to attend a friend's funeral (my former District Chief). Thanks to some helpful suggestions, I attended with a minimum of discomfort. He had left SGI in the late '80's early '90's - probably because he was gay and as you know, NSA/SGI thought very negatively of gays at that time.

At the funeral, I saw his partner, his brother, and some other family members. I also sat between some leaders I used to practice with - can't remember what positions they held. Just two current SGI members showed up. The MD leader said I could come back anytime, but I replied, "No, it's complicated."

I'll still occasionally run into members. Most of the time, it's "Hi, how ya doin?" type stuff. I did once run into a WD top leader while my daughter and I were selling Girl Scout cookies at the supermarket and told her the main reason why I left (at a Chapter Level and up Leaders Meeting, a WD had the nerve to say that a pioneer member deserved to get dementia). She seemed shocked at first, then quickly recovered and said I needed to help change the organization. She said, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." I told her that to change the organization, I would have to move to L.A.

It's been over two years since I've left. I've joined a Tibetan Buddhist group close to my home whose leader has the equivalent of a Ph.D. from the Tibetan university he attended. He also speaks English and has become an American citizen. I'm not saying the group is perfect, though. He requests that out of respect, we either bow or perform prostrations in front of him, and even President Ikeda has never requested this. At least I'm not crying in the dark before I go to bed so no one will hear me like I was doing before I left SGI.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: August 11, 2013 08:45AM


She seemed shocked at first, then quickly recovered and said I needed to help change the organization. She said, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." I told her that to change the organization, I would have to move to L.A.
Yes, *anything* to keep you tied to the cult! I don't see what's wrong with simply opting out of participating in any way with the cult at all! And trust me - they have no interest in changing. I swallowed that "help change it" line myself, only to see very clearly that the leadership is completely stacked in favor of "the problem." Since there is no democratic process - leaders are all appointed, none is elected - there can be no change. Those who challenge "the problem" are maligned, removed from positions of responsibility, cut out of the loop.

A person can only be "part of the solution" if s/he has some measure of power/influence in the situation. The members of the SGI *don't*. They're simply told "Chant harder! Be more visible at activities! Get guidance!" As if that's going to change anything *eye roll*

I'm glad the funeral went well. You did the right thing, and you continue to do the right thing. I hope you feel proud of yourself and happy about your good judgment. The SGI's problems do not need to become YOUR problems. They have those problems because of the unhealthy and dysfunctional cult structure, and that emanates directly from Heil Sensei Daisucky!

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: August 11, 2013 08:49AM

Say, slightly off topic, but has anyone else been following the drama surrounding King of Queens actress Lea Remini's very public exit from Scientology? She even had the balls to file a Missing Persons report with the police because Big Cheese Miscavige's (sp?) wife hasn't been seen in 6 years. The woman didn't even attend Scientology Crown Prince Tom Cruise's wedding to Katie Holmes! She should have been there. Apparently, the police have closed the report, but I suspect that's because they've been paid off or threatened by Scientology lawyers. Those guys don't mess around, and they're as nasty a bunch as you're likely to ever find. Poor Shelly Miscavige's corpse is probably mouldering in a steamer trunk in some closed off corner of some basement somewhere...or else she was dumped at sea on some Sea Org outing.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: August 12, 2013 02:05AM

Watching the Lea Remini situation has been interesting, and bless her little cotton socks for having the huevos to file a report with the police. Shelly Miscavige could be anywhere, and sea org has enough power to own an entire police force. I suspect that sgi wields that kind of power in parts of Japan but, fortunately, not here. Any negative attention any cult is receiving is fine by me.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 12, 2013 02:50AM

Power without accountability is dangerous.

No accountablity to anyone. No way for an outside attorney, Red Cross, Amnesty International or the UN to come in and at least visit and see whether someone is alive and being treated well.

At least if a nation fields an army and police force, and prison/detention, these are supposed to operate according to guidelines.

Some of these large cultic groups are the same or close to being bandit entities, such as the Somali pirates/warlord entities or the slave raiding emirates in North Africa back in the 16th/17th/18th centuries.

However, the North African pirate emirates were better than Scientology in one respect. They did eventually work out procedures so that captives could be identified, ransomed and have some chance of returning home. (Miguel Cervantes, author of Don Quixote spent 6 to 7 years as a captive in Algeria and was ransomed, along with his brother, Rodrigo)

But there seems no way to negotiate an exit from the worst of our modern cultic groups.

And what adds insult to this injury is when said entities call themselves churches or spiritual non profits and dont even pay tax.

That gives tax paying non members every right to feel interested--and concerned.

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