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ScoobyDooby

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kasumi
Is there anyone on this forum who has SGI/Nichiren Shoshu items that they would like to part with? [such as old gongyo books, Gohonzon etc]
If so, please pm me or post your info here.

Also, the issues with SGI raised here seem to center on its organization and operation, including its leadership.

Two questions:

1. Aside from SGI, did anyone have issues with the actual practice of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism itself [gongyo, daimoku, study, propogation]?
To discuss SGI, it is necessary to discuss the religion that SGI practices - namely Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism.

2. Has anyone left SGI to practice in another Nichiren group [such as Nichiren Shoshu or Shoshinkai] and how was your experience there?
Since this is a forum about cults, any sect would be presumably fair game in relation to Buddhism [although it is unclear here if people think that Buddhism itself is a cult]

kasumi

This is a forum for former members (accent on the former) and affected family members, not Craigslist. I suspect you are some sort of troll since you have not responded to previous responses to your original post.

First of all, the Nichiren Shoshu is not Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. It is actually Nichikan Shoshu. SGI likewise is not Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. It is Ikedaism. You may have the ashes of the SGI/Nichiren Shoshu Gohonzons and Sutra books that I respectfully burned while chanting the Daimoku and the Jiga-ge. I then dispersed them into the wind or on the earth. They were my mother's and those sent or handed to me by several former members and my own Nichikan Gohonzon. The books and magazines I threw out. The World Tribune I used for kitty litter. The cranes I threw out and removed from the Butsudan. The Juzu beads I threw out. I now have a real Gohonzon, a copy of Nichiren's 101st Gohonzon, The Gohonzon for the Transmission of the Dharma. It works great and looks beautiful.

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 06:48AM by Nichijew.

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wakatta1
Geesh! Thanks a lot Hitch, you reawakened a long forgotten memory from my ?Soka han? days.

Here's another term that goes way back, $oka-han = TCD (Traffic Control Division). Another example of the slow conversion from any English acronyms to the cult-speak Japanese lingo just to ensure a more thorough brainwashing. I did a ton of $oka-han in the ymd, I even caught pneumonia after one stint and went straight into a hospitalization afterwards to recover. The cult org. literally ran me into the ground. They spun it to reframe it as a benefit, opportunity to cut through heavy (fake) karma and make huge deposits into my imaginary "fortune bank", blah-blah-blah and blah, etc..

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wakatta1
I was one of twenty limo drivers during a movement (rented black lincoln town cars) and ended up driving a couple VP's around and one time briefly HizMajezzy. Spot on - the VP's struck me as little guys trying to be big guys (speaking the language and hearing their conversations was an eye ... er... ear opening experience as their chatter sounded very insecure overall, not what you'd expect from people "deeply grounded" in faith.)

You are absolutely correct. This only comes through if you can listen in in Japanese. The top level so-called 'senior leaders' are deeply insecure, worried about their perceived status in the hierarchy, obsessed with ingratiating themselves to their superiors and remaining in their good graces. Sometimes seeing Williams (Sadanaga) around Ikeda or any $oka Gakkai level Vice-President, was like watching two completely different people (the confident, authoritative, charismatic, and strong U.S. General Director vs. the unconfident, submissive, obedient, reticent, kowtowing, insecure, lap dog licking at the heels of his owner - literally. It was shocking, unbelievable and repulsive, all at the same time, to witness).

The entire cult organization is one big lie. And on that note, ...

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Freeheartandmind
Lies, lies, and more lies, especially about finances. SGI is a multi-BILLION dollar organization, and Ikeda is a multi-BILLIONNAIRE, yet there is NO disclosure to members who act as maintenance, security, and clerical help, all unpaid, for the org. Lower ranking members did not know about the deception, but without a doubt higher-ranking ones did. Even doctrine was a lie, such as the grand main temple opened in 1973 being the sign of cousin rufus (that's what we call world peace around here). The grand main temple is now on the rubbish heap, after I wasted several hundreds I could ill afford to go on a pilgrimage in 1973.

You got it. Even their doctrine is like the tri-colored cult flag that blows in whatever the prevailing winds of the time dictate, abandoning once supposed core 'values' at whim in a desperate attempt to be something to everybody. It's all about repainting and repackaging themselves like a politician or circus barker, to keep the gravy train and show going on. People don't matter. All that matters, is that the games continue to be played and everybody is kept busy chasing the imaginary grand prize.

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Freeheartandmind
Enjoy free time, exploring interests other than SGI, just being yourself, being kind to yourself. It gets better and better.

When I first broke free, I remember actually feeling guilty for a time, because I wasn't there helping contribute to Cousin Rufus or doing the part that was programmed into me. It passed though, and I eventually became a normal person again. You're right, it does only get better and better. The further it recedes into mere memory, the more you look back and just wonder in amazement (and hopefully laugh about it), how you ever got mixed up in such ridiculousness and insanity.

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rattyboy
Scoobydooby and other forum members - We have had some forum members in the process of breaking free from SGI who would not be considered full-fledged "former members". Especially since full extrication from the SGI community can be a difficult process, I hope we stay open to a degree and not discourage those on the fence. I agree that kasumi sounds suspicious, and will leave it at that.
One might still hesitate even after reading nearly 500 pages of testimony, opinions, advice, facts, examples, challenges. I hope that each individual's own gut feeling, intelligence, and research around SGI is the main driving force before absorbing all that is on these pages.
Although -Newbies to the practice might want to read and absorb this forum to establish an informed opinion.

As I thought about what might be the "obstacles" to me getting away fully in my mind (terminology like that for example) I considered how it is difficult to completely disengage from SGI members as they are human beings and one might consider those forged "heart to heart connections". (even though I never see any members) I consider the context, however, and also remember some condescending and controlling language from those leaders and members I considered most respect-worthy or genuine. And just plain lies!

Rattyboy Yes - I agree you that we shouldn't discourage those who are currently on the fence regarding their involvement with SGI. I'll admit my post was a little caustic (and I apologize for that) but I was taken aback by someone who's first post to the forum was asking for discarded SGI materials and questioning forum members about their current religious convictions. Not cool.

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ScoobyDooby

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rattyboy
Scoobydooby and other forum members - We have had some forum members in the process of breaking free from SGI who would not be considered full-fledged "former members". Especially since full extrication from the SGI community can be a difficult process, I hope we stay open to a degree and not discourage those on the fence. I agree that kasumi sounds suspicious, and will leave it at that.
One might still hesitate even after reading nearly 500 pages of testimony, opinions, advice, facts, examples, challenges. I hope that each individual's own gut feeling, intelligence, and research around SGI is the main driving force before absorbing all that is on these pages.
Although -Newbies to the practice might want to read and absorb this forum to establish an informed opinion.

As I thought about what might be the "obstacles" to me getting away fully in my mind (terminology like that for example) I considered how it is difficult to completely disengage from SGI members as they are human beings and one might consider those forged "heart to heart connections". (even though I never see any members) I consider the context, however, and also remember some condescending and controlling language from those leaders and members I considered most respect-worthy or genuine. And just plain lies!

Rattyboy Yes - I agree you that we shouldn't discourage those who are currently on the fence regarding their involvement with SGI. I'll admit my post was a little caustic (and I apologize for that) but I was taken aback by someone who's first post to the forum was asking for discarded SGI materials and questioning forum members about their current religious convictions. Not cool.

ScoobyDooby-I don't think you need to apologize for anything. Kasumi gave no indication of being on the fence about SGI. I agree, what Kasumi did was not cool, and I too was taken aback. People on the fence about SGI have been warmly accepted here.

Is the irony lost on most people?

In keeping with the spirit of this month, for $5.00 USD (2 hour wait in line?) at 'Doomsday Door', come see a "Haunted House" display put on by *real* cult member 'zombies', at Cult U..

[www.soka.edu]

Photos - [www.ocregister.com]

YouTube, waiting in line - [www.youtube.com]

"Trick AND Treat" - Where you get both tricked AND give all your treats to the cult org. for as long as you are a member.

Meet and greet real fellow zombies and get a chance to actually become one, too! A-A-OH, BOO!!

"Soka Gakkai - Mystery with a Reason?"

(By © 1997 Dragan Todorovic, All rights reserved.)

"Sunny Sunday morning at the beginning of June. I am sitting on a wooden bench, birch trees around me, no car anywhere in sight. It is true what they say: the birds exist out there and they really sing. It is as close to Heaven as one can get, including the feeling that I am not welcome here.

The building behind my back is Caledon Centre for Culture and Education, an estate worth tens of millions, that belongs to Soka Gakkai International (SGI). It is the final day of the Conference on Evolution of World Order (WOC), organized-according to the official documents of the event-by Science for Peace, a renown and well respected organization among NGOs all over the world, Ryerson Polytechnic University, SGI, UN Association of Toronto and others. Out of 140 participants, only around 40 decided to come here today, for the plenary session, which is strange.

I am alone outside, going through some of the papers submitted here, trying to see if there is something that would explain this odd feeling of secrecy that I got. Michael Greenspoon, one of the associate chairs of this conference, appears from the building with an unknown man and approaches me. After few formal words, Greenspoon goes down to business: “I wonder if it would be possible for you to send me a draft of your article before it’s published...”

"Imagine that someone says about your father how he raped some woman long ago!"
I respond by question: “Any special concerns regarding Soka Gakkai?”

“Well, yes,” says Greenspoon, “they are trying to build a positive image...”

He gives me his E-mail address and leaves with another man. They take a walk through a small strip of woods that surrounds the building, occasionally looking at me from the distance. You know: the thing you do when you want to talk so nobody hears. But you do that only if someone with the electronic equipment is around you. Is this such a case? Not at all, if you exclude a dozen of well mannered guys in black pants and white shirts with the walkie-talkies in their hands, but they need it to organize the scientific crowd, which is rather known as wild. And yes, every now and then somebody comes out of the building and just passes by me, checking if the freshly planted trees are growing properly. Since the trees are neatly tied and fixed in a vertical position (Soka Gakkai hates weakness), guys return to the building, not even looking at me. Except for one, up there, on the second floor. But I really am suspicious: I smoke in Heaven.

Everything in Caledon that day functions perfectly well, thanks to almost military precision of Dr. Walter Dorn, chairman of this conference, and Helen Izumi of SGI-who, as we learn later, is the main organizer. We are greeted by Elizabeth Izumi, president of SGI Canada, and Ian StClair, from the local City Council, which only adds to the written messages from the Secretary General of the UN Kofi Annan and Mayor Barbara Hall. A high-level summit. Topics include reorganization of UN, international law, role of military in the next century, new energies...

On the way back to Toronto, I am even interviewed by Lynne Hussey, a member of SGI who says that the President of SGI, Mr. Daisaku Ikeda, wants to know the personal feelings of the participants. I do not see anyone else being interviewed on this occasion, but I already understand that the SGI is highly sensitive to a journalist presence.

So I decide to start my little investigation, which, a month later, results in four books, several magazines, three tapes, and over 200 pages of faxes, E-mail messages and other documents, sitting now on my desk.

I started the easy way: doing research on the Internet. Home page of the Conference, tidy and well done, gave no credit to Soka Gakkai International. Then I typed the name of this organization into the AltaVista search engine and ten seconds later a full screen of accusations stared right into my face: alleged rapes (a case against the president of SGI, Daisaku Ikeda), unresolved deaths, Victims of Soka Gakkai Association, all mixed with the reports on cooperation with the United Nations, promotion of culture, science and research, foundation of a University in Tokyo, two art museums, one political party and many other praise worthy undertakings. Even the Church of Scientology does not have this kind of controversy around it.

SGI is the most powerful lay group in Japan. It owns Japan’s third largest newspaper, Seikyo Shimbun, as well as Soka University. Its political arm, the now defunct Komeito (The Clean Government Party), has formed the core of the New Frontier Party, which promotes itself as a left-oriented party (fights against new taxes, for welfare, etc.), but was rocked by scandals few months ago, when its two high-ranking members (Toshio Yamaguchi and Keisuke Nakanishi) got in troubles with the law. Ikeda is a charismatic figure famous for jetting around the world to hold “dialogues” with such luminaries as John Kenneth Galbraith, Arnold Toynbee, Johan Galtung, Mikhail Gorbachev or Anatol Rapoport here.

But why, I kept asking myself, such secrecy about the role of SGI in a promotion of such event as this conference in Toronto?

Even the Church of Scientology does not have this kind of controversy around it.
Exchanging E-mail messages with Michael Greenspoon, trying to learn more about the sponsorship of WOC by Soka Gakkai, I noticed that the copies of our correspondence were sent to Walter Dorn and Helen Izumi. Walter Dorn was obviously the next person I would have liked to meet.

E-mail messages I got from other people around this conference became really controversial. It seemed that the SGI gave anywhere between sixty and a hundred percent of the money needed for this conference (total cost was around $24,000), and it seemed also that SGI was either registered as a member of Science for Peace, or an organization with which Science for Peace did not have any ongoing relationship, depending on whom did I ask. Some of the messages, according to the “envelopes”, were copied for Walter Dorn.

I met him two days later in his office at University of Toronto. He kindly gave me his sixteen-pages-long Curriculum Vitae and offered that we go together through some of the sites on the Internet. We didn’t have much time to talk, though, partially because of me being late, partially due to (un)expected calls coming all the time, from Michael Greenspoon, Helen Izumi and others, whom I could not identify. Dr. Dorn repeated that SGI gave sixty percent of the money for the conference, that his position was paid (170 hours of work, he said, price unknown) and that he believed in “the essential integrity of Soka Gakkai”. He said that he offered to SGI to have its promotion during the conference, but they refused, although having some 5,000 members in Canada. Asked for his personal opinion about the case against Ikeda, he responded that if only I saw Mrs. Ikeda, I wouldn’t believe in something like that either, and besides, Daisaku Ikeda is a man of great integrity. “So you met Ikeda when you visited SGI in Japan?” I asked. “No,” he replied. I told him that I spoke to Kazue Akita, lawyer of the woman who accused Ikeda, and we parted.

By this stage of my investigation the rumors were already spread. Some members of Science for Peace I asked for opinion on the whole case were reluctant to comment in public. Some of them did not respond at all. Two of them (names withheld by request) told me that they were really surprised to learn of so tight connection between the two organizations. To their knowledge, first contacts happened regarding the WOC, and now that they had a chance to do their own research on SGI, they didn’t like that connection.

The rumors also got to Japan. Three days after I spoke to Walter Dorn, I got E-mail from Rie Tsumura, SGI Director of Communications, based in Tokyo. Although I never contacted her, she found it important to inform me further on two cases that are obviously bothering SGI: one is the rape case and the other is the Asaki case. Akiyo Asaki was a Higashi-Murayama-area city councilwoman who was a vocal critic of SGI. She jumped into her death in September 1995, under unresolved circumstances.

The same day I received this letter (Tuesday), I got a call from Andrew Gebert, director of public information at SGI. He was in New York and expressed a wish to see me during the coming weekend. When I responded that it would be too late, since my deadline was Thursday, he explained that, in fact, he wanted to come to Toronto sooner, and proposed to meet me the next day.

And so we meet the next day, at high noon, on Charles Street , but not alone-as the time would suggest. Tony Meers, vice-chair of SGI Canada, joins Gebert. I take out my recorder and we start talking, but every now and then Gebert and Meers ask me to turn it off, since they want to say something off the record. I give up, shut my recorder off and offer them a plain, simple conversation. It works better this way.

Since that interview was not recorded, I cannot quote, but I can tell you that SGI certainly looks like a happy family according to my new friends (“I have never seen such compact group of white, black, oriental people, West Indians, and everybody else!”-Gebert) . They had a hard time explaining how it happened that SGI in USA had more than 300,000 members few years ago and it went to only 50,000 today. They say that president Ikeda is just an equal between equals, but talking about the rape case, they say that their feelings are extremely hurt by these allegations: “Imagine that someone says about your father how he raped some woman long ago!”

They said that Komeito was founded to protect the rights of SGI members in Japan . Asked if they would want to do the same in Canada or USA , they denied. “So, the rights of, say, West Indians are well protected in USA ?” I ask. “We don’t think we need a party here,” responded Gebert, “but we lobby with other groups to protect the religious rights of our members. We lobbied, for example, against prayer in schools.”

“If, instead of an obligatory prayer, it would have been a chant, a meditation, what would be your stand?” I ask. “We would be against it,” they say, “because we don’t think that religion and politics should be mixed.”

He was in New York and expressed a wish to see me during the coming weekend. When I responded that it would be too late, since my deadline was Thursday, he explained that, in fact, he wanted to come to Toronto sooner, and proposed to meet me the next day.
I wanted to ask again about the political party founded by SGI, but I gave up. Instead, we turned to the literature. I was supplied by articles, books and other promotional material.

Interestingly, in one of the books SGI members like to quote, since it comes from two Oxford professors, I found a detail which explains much of the media attention given to SGI in Japan: “The growth of the movement was largely the result of the theory of conversion which Toda endorsed- shakubuku (often translated as ’break and subdue’). [...] Otherwise, shoju , a more moderate and conciliatory approach through dialogue and example, would be appropriate, in particular in non-Buddhist countries.” (A Time to Chant, Wilson & Dobbelaere, Oxford University Press. 1994. p10-11)

Yoichi Shimatsu, co-editor of the Archipelago magazine and former editor of The Japan Times Weekly, sent me several major files describing the political situation in Japan . Officially, he said, Komeito does not exist anymore, but its voters are supporting The New Frontier Party (Shinshinto), formed with the splinters of Japan ’s ruling Liberal Democratic Party. Komeito was frequently accused of conspiracy to install the religious dictatorship, but Shinshinto is more sensitive and cautious to these issues, presenting itself as a centrist party.

Masaru Kohno, professor of Political Science at University of British Columbia , says: “Many believe that, although there is no official connection between Komeito and SGI, Ikeda shook his hands with Ichiro Ozawa, founder of Shinshinto, before the deal was done. This could be the rise of the right wing in Japan , but there is still a gap between that and a religious dictatorship. I believe that Japan is fundamentally democratic country.”

However, in Japanese House of Representatives Shinshinto currently holds 173 out of 511 seats, second after LDP’s 207 representatives.

And, finally, here we are. Why such a secrecy in all this? Why does everything in regards to Soka Gakkai International stir so much emotions? Why SGI refused to publicly announce its funding-and the organization-of the World Order Conference? Why did it need Science for Peace and why this left-oriented organization with high reputation agreed to give its credibility to the event funded by a religious organization, so much different from itself, except for the declaratory support of peace?

Are we facing an organization with two faces, one of shakubuku for Japan , and one of shoju for the rest of the world? Once shoju is not enough, will we see shakubuku, too?

Similar set of questions remains for the members of Science for Peace. The most important one is: How far can you go and still retain your independence?"

[Published in NOW magazine, July 1997]

Link to source: [www.dragantodorovic.com]

********

Not sure if this has been posted before, but it is my first time seeing it. Fascinating, insightful and, most of all, not surprising (for those of us who have been on the 'inside').

- Hitch

So I was on youtube and i came across this video. sorry but i dont know how to post the link but it is under
"MLK Chapel: Gandhi, King, Ikeda Video" I think its been posted here before. Anyway It really struck something in me. Am I crazy or something? All of these educated people speaking about President Ikeda being in the same light as King and Gandhi. I mean no disrespect but i wonder what exactly has Ikeda done for peace. Is it just that he does his anual Peace proposal. does meeting with all the people he meets with, world leaders in such make him qualify to be a man of peace. or is that just glorified photo ops. I mean it really sickens me that the hatred toward the priesthood is still alive in the SGI. So how can the SGI really stand under the umbrealla of calling itself a Peace organization when they cant even keep peace with the people they took their religion from.

So I ask you What has Ikeda Really done.... Seriuosly does anybody know? and how is the Sgi a peace movement with soka spirit still very much a part of the organization. how has this went under the nose of all of these educated people. I mean doctors and such or am I the crazy one... Please answer friends

There is an interesting thread on this forum about the Falun Gong group, led by Li Hongzhi. When I read the former member's account of his experiences....they sounded suspiciously like former members' experiences with SGI.

[forum.culteducation.com]

------------------------Beginning of quote----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I used to practice Falun Gong. Being in a Falun Gong practitioner, or a "Dafa disciple", was really a nightmare to me.

Since Li Hongzhi told me that “Dafa” is the priority in my life, I have to do the so-called “three things” assigned by “Master Li”, which are reading Falun Gong books and practice Falun Gong exercises, clarifying the truth (which ranges from volunteering at Falun Gong headquarters’ construction site, distributing Falun Gong newspapers, to persuading others to buy “Divine Performing Arts” show tickets), and the “sending forth righteous thoughts” (which is chanting “The Fa rectifies the cosmos, the Evil is completely eliminated, etc.” in Chinese).

During the several years of Falun Gong experience, I almost committed suicide several times, when I felt so impossible to meet Master Li’s requirements, as I was “saved from hell by Master Li”. I didn’t kill myself because I was afraid that I might become “the daemon who undermines Dafa”, and “everyday people (people who do not practice Falun Gong)” might not be “saved” once they heard that a Falun Gong practitioner suicides.

. Li Hongzhi even encourages us not to touch any “everyday people’s” information, including books, newspapers, TV programs, music, movies, etc. because we are on incredibly higher levels than “everyday people” and cannot be polluted by them.


Another point that forces me to think about Falun Gong is the death that occurred at the construction site of Dragon Springs retreat (Falun Gong people call it “the mountain”), Falun Gong’s headquarter and where Li Hongzhi lives, in Cuddebackville, NY. (http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080506/NEWS/805060313/-1/NEWS14) That practitioner who fell to his death when working on the construction site was so unfortunate. I actually used to go there and work there. All of the workers are volunteers. None of them wears safety cap, and no safety symbols or signs is displayed on anywhere of the tens of millions of dollars worth of construction. In fact, those kids from Falun Gong’s “Divine Performing Arts’” dancing companies were forced to train in that building while construction is going on over the roof or at the hallway on the other side of the wall.

Little by little I realized that Falun Gong is a destructive cult. One of the most destructive point is it makes you think that you don’t have any disease no more, and therefore should not receive any medical treatment. I heard numerous cases of death of Falun Gong practitioners because of avoiding medical treatment. In our internal email list, we frequently heard that one practitioner in some city needs us to “send forth righteous thoughts” to eliminate the “evil’s serious interference to that practitioner’s body”.
----------------------------------end of quote-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So many similarities to SGI. Do these cult leaders all read from the same instruction manual?

--The charismatic leader (mentor) who can "save you from hell." (lead you to enlightenment)

--Members work for very long hours for free, often under unsafe conditions, despite the organization's wealth.

--Some members feel inadequate and depressed when they can't meet the organization's unreasonable, excessive expectations.

--Falun Gong, like SGI, seems to spend an enormous amount of time putting on performances.

--Members who have problems feel that they have to hide them so as not to make the organization look bad.

--There is the belief that chanting, or positive thinking can create world peace, or eliminate evil.

--Some members delay or completely avoid getting medical care for serious illnesses because they have been told that chanting or sending forth righteous thoughts will heal them.

--Members are told that they have a special mission to save the world.

--The threat, whether implied or directly stated, that leaving the organization will make bad things happen to you and your loved ones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2012 04:53AM by tsukimoto.

Tsukimoto that is wild how there are so many similarities.

Re: Gandhi-King-Dear Leader campaign

I had been out of the cult org. by the time this thing rolled around, but when I first learned of it through the grapevine, my first reaction was to literally laugh (I couldn't help it). Members weren't laughing, though. They were taking it very seriously. Their perspective is so skewed by the non-reality of the inside of the cult org., which drills it into you, scrubs away all doubts and replaces them with manufactured justifications. Put on your 'faith glasses', smile and promote, without engaging your critical faculties. Typical gakkai crap and just another example as to how bizarre, desperate and delusional things got after the priesthood breakup. In the minds of the true believers, Ikeda *is* on the same level as Gandhi & King AND even deserves a Nobel Peace Prize (which he is obsessed with, the reason he meets with so many Peace laureates - for nomination requests - pesters the Nobel committee about and otherwise tries to buy). To anyone on the outside, the entire notion, on the very face of it, is absurd. It was like the org. inadvertently dropping its robes and veil, giving all a good, clear glimpse as to the cult nature that is really driving everything.

Lawrence Carter (Sr.) is (IMO) a pseudo-intellectual and this clip is evidence of it, [www.youtube.com]. He is also bought, paid for and rewarded, by the cult org. ("a member of the Board of Trustees of Soka University of America ..." / has an "honorary doctorate" from "Soka University", etc.). Watch the entire clip and notice how all of his talk is superficial, meaningless, gibberish. It's like liquid candy that looks good when it comes out of the tube, but just forms into a amorphous, gooey blob once it settles into the bowl. He can even be heard admitting to accepting paid junkets to the cult motherland to get further brainwashed, influenced and rewarded.


Re: Falun Group

If I recall correctly, I believe there was actually a former gakkai cult member here on this thread who wrote about jumping the gakkai cult ship for the expressed purpose of landing smack dab into the middle of the Falun group. This is the one thing that has shocked me the most since joining this mb, to learn that many people actually jump ship and land right into another similar manipulative situation that they just managed to escape from - the "cult hopping."