Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: SGBye ()
Date: June 06, 2012 03:09PM

I constantly butted heads with leaders towards the end of my time in the SGI regarding the numbers game. Leaders loved to say “The fastest way to do human revolution is to do shakubuku!,” as though they discovered some scientific equation to overcoming obstacles. It was a dirty and manipulative way to convince people with serious problems that their struggles could be easily solved if they just brought someone else into the organization.

Also, I once did street shakubuku when I was around 16 with another guy who was 17. It was just the two of us walking up to people. Looking back on it now, I can’t believe the two of us, who weren’t even of adult age yet, were sent out to approach random strangers on the street. Crazy.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: June 06, 2012 03:11PM

They also always used to say that because "shakubuku" was hard, it was also the fastest and most surefire way to change your "karma", create "great benefit", make breakthrough "progress" in your life's goals and accumulate tremendous good "fortune." It was also framed as the critical "KEY" to unlock the magic box for your "ultimate happiness." (All quoted words = actual cult-speak that I remember hearing, over and over and over again. In fact, it was said so much, that it kind of lost its power and meaning by virtue of being repeated too much.)

It was all so blatantly transparent and manipulative.

Re: SGI members, Shakubuku family and friends over the holidays!
Posted by: Nichijew ()
Date: June 06, 2012 10:15PM

Quote
Hitch
Was perusing some of the older posts on this thread and came across this interesting one from AntiCult:

Quote
The Anticult
Well that is interesting, some sects give very specific instruction on how to do street pick-ups.
It would take an Ex-SGI Leader to come forward and tell about how they were trained to manage the SGI streeters, as SGI has a system of how to deal with new people who get brought in.

But again, SGI is very smart. They keep it simple.
The SGI Leader orders people to go out and pick-up some people off the street.
One would assume the SGI leader praises those who bring back the bacon, and shames those who don't.

So then SGI members start to lie to people, to get them to come back with them.
There are posts in this thread, of how a group of SGI people would DECEIVE someone, by telling them they are going somewhere else, and then take that person to an SGI recruitment meeting.

Its very interesting how dishonesty becomes commonplace in these sects like SGI. Many of the average members would think lying is wrong, yet they lie lie lie to get people to attend a meeting. Or they distort, misrepresent, manipulate.

What is very interesting, is some SGI people who have tried to recruit others, when asked about this, don't even say they are doing for the other person's good. They have openly said they are doing it for THEIR OWN KARMA. The first time I heard that, I was floored by the selfishness of that statement. They literally said they recruit people to SGI for their OWN Karma, that is, so they can have more of what they want in their lives.
SGI just panders to that level of human self-centeredness.

But again, SGI is very diabolically smart. They know its a numbers game, its a meat market. Bring in the numbers, and a certain % of those people will join.
That is how SGI makes the millions and billions. Pump and dump, they just churn people through.

There have to be former SGI Leaders who have quit, who can go into the great detail of the advanced training they take on how to recruit new people brought in.
The SGI-USA website is full of techniques and strategies.
It looks like SGI uses "modeling" (which is an NLP term) to show others how to do things. That is, you copy those who are higher up the food chain than you are.
That way, you only know what SGI wants you to know at each level.


SGI is very very smart how they run their operation.

Once again, just wanted to state as fact that AntiCult is, yet again, correct, regarding how street shakubuku was done.

New or reluctant members were placed into little groups that always had at least a couple of bold front leaders with a proven track record for getting "guests." You hit the streets, the corners, in neighborhoods - door to door, and went right up to strangers in a very confident, happy (feigned) and direct manner. You learned by watching them repeat the process and then were eventually pushed forward to do it yourself, with them falling back to support you. If things started to go bad, then they took over again. It was definitely done by modeling.

The cult organization that I remember and grew up in was essentially obsessed with shakubuku. Every meeting, every speech, and just about every other word out of Williams' (Sandanaga) mouth was "shakubuku, shakubuku, shakubuku." It was pushed constantly, way too much and way over the top for my tastes. I never bought into it and was sick of hearing about it all the time, too. Some of the darkest manipulation that I ever had the misfortune to witness in the cult also occurred when people were forced to do random shakubuku, were reluctant, or didn't want to. It always reeked of desperation to me and went completely against what I thought a genuine religion should be about.

This is all strictly from the members' side/perspective. Just think about much worse it was from the "target." Feigned attention for your happiness and welfare one minute, then you are almost completely forgotten and neglected then next minute (right after you join). It was painfully obvious that it was all purely a numbers game.

I might add Hitch, totally against the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin who actually was thoughtful and compassionate towards his members..

Nichijew

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: June 07, 2012 04:48AM

Quote
SGBye
I constantly butted heads with leaders towards the end of my time in the SGI .......

Bumping heads with leaders slowly became a past-time with me, the more I began to think critically and for myself. Even salaried ones, some of which the closest they will ever come to a brainstorm will be only a slight drizzle (which reminds me, Ethan Gelbaum, you out there??? Do you wanna hear the lyrics to a song that many of the YMD made about you, from back in the day??? A true loyal goon "leader" right there. One who was really admired by his "members." So much so, that they even made a song about him.)

Re: Former SGI members, SGI is not Buddhism
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: June 07, 2012 05:10AM

Quote
The Anticult
This goes back to things near the beginning of this long thread.
I knew a person in the past, who called themselves a "Buddhist" from SGI. The first time this person told me they were a Buddhist, I assumed they were joking and being ironic and sarcastic, like someone eating a burger saying they were a Vegan.
This person was not a "Buddhist" in the sense of how most people think of it.
They drank excessively, got drunk regularly, smoked, had promiscuous sex often with strangers, and spent most of their day focussed on their career, money, trying to get famous and rich, and the rest of it.
So the person was like some reality show contestant acting out on TV, as in Greed is Good.

So that lead to some research into this so-called Buddhism sold by SGI in the west.
Within minutes, literally, I asked this person..didn't Buddha say the origin of suffering is desire?
They had never heard that one. Whoops.

I had a good Christian friend back in college who one day mentioned to me that he was approached by a couple of people who tried to get him to go to a buddhist meeting. I immediately said, "I bet they were short, older asian ladies with bad English, weren't they." He said, "Yeah! How did you know?" I then said, "did they tell you about some magical chant?" He said, "YES!" I told him, "stay away from those people, far away." He then told me that he had no desire to explore their "philosophy" because he started to ask them about "morals" and what they believed about what was "right" and what was "wrong." They said, "we don't preach any morals. It's all up to you." He said he didn't like that. I told him, "well, you did the RIGHT thing by telling them to take a hike."

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Nichijew ()
Date: June 07, 2012 08:53AM

I knew this fellow, Kevin O'Neil. He was a 7th degree blackbelt and had a Master's degree in Asian philosophy. He was also a strong District Leader. One day he took the SGI up on their exortation to ask as many questions as you like. He gave Mr. Kasahara a notebook with 3000 questions. After several months and not receiving a single answer to even one question, he confronted Mr. Kasahara. Mr Kasahara excommunicated him.

Nichijew

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: June 07, 2012 10:51AM

Quote
Nichijew
I knew this fellow, Kevin O'Neil. He was a 7th degree blackbelt and had a Master's degree in Asian philosophy. He was also a strong District Leader. One day he took the SGI up on their exortation to ask as many questions as you like. He gave Mr. Kasahara a notebook with 3000 questions. After several months and not receiving a single answer to even one question, he confronted Mr. Kasahara. Mr Kasahara excommunicated him.

Nichijew

Can't have the members outthinking the "leaders." I was pretty young at the time, but one of the times I confronted Goon Gelbaum with critical thinking, he looked just like a deer caught in some headlights and after a pause, pathetically tried to redirect the conversation. Up until that point, I had never fully realized just how stupid he really was. Was also able to immediately see through the con job. Twas not a pretty sight (literally and metaphorically).

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: June 07, 2012 01:26PM

The soka gakkai cult participating in the Martin Luther King Parade in Los Angeles (slightly different clip than posted before in this thread). This clip shows them as they pass the judges stand:

1. Shouting out, "SGI'S IN THE HOUSE!!!!"
2. The Phantom Leader's "Ifu Dodo" Fan Dance.
3. Gandhi, King, Ikeda giant flag portraits being pushed on wheels.

All participants wearing gakkai flag colors.

[www.youtube.com]

It's pretty obvious to me that, even at first quick glances, this organization is practically screaming out CULT!!

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: June 07, 2012 05:26PM

Quote
SGBye
Also, I once did street shakubuku when I was around 16 with another guy who was 17. It was just the two of us walking up to people. Looking back on it now, I can’t believe the two of us, who weren’t even of adult age yet, were sent out to approach random strangers on the street. Crazy.

That was probably around the same age that I stopped doing it completely. I absolutely refused to cooperate and go along with it, no matter how much manipulation and psychological pressure they tried to give me. One particular leader, pretty much was my enemy and hated my guts for not kowtowing to his directives and commands. Mind you, he was a grown man, an adult, and I was just a teenage kid. Looking back, that was pretty much messed up dysfunctional "leader" behavior, treating a kid that way. There were lots of crazy things going on in the cult, all the time.

I'd like to run into that leader again someday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 05:26PM by Hitch.

Re: SGI members, Shakubuku family and friends over the holidays!
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 07, 2012 11:55PM

What about being dishonest to get people to go to an SGI meeting?
How does SGI coach their members, to get them to tell others its a "party" or a get-together, or it might be a dating singles get-together, or whatever?
How does SGI coach its members, to get them to convince new people to come to SGI meetings?

How does SGI rationalize the deception and outright lying that comes into this SGI recruitment process?


Quote
Hitch
Some of the darkest manipulation that I ever had the misfortune to witness in the cult also occurred when people were forced to do random shakubuku, were reluctant, or didn't want to. It always reeked of desperation to me and went completely against what I thought a genuine religion should be about.

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.