Maybe it's from my Christian background, but I'm far more willing to understand that Jesus had his disciples and that people have forever sung the praises of Jesus in church....that does not bother me in the least.

What bothers me is children dancing for their Mentor (who they have little clue about, let's face it), and having Sensei always with you on a phone ap...

I would say to Sensei---Mr. Ikeda, you are not God, nor are you Jesus. You certainly aren't the Pope. And you certainly don't seem to be living the words of the Buddha.

I wonder if the young men of Kansai felt any closer to Enlightenment, after enduring what they chose to endure....

@Findingmywaytoday....I had to smile reading what you related about finding employment again after a long spell--and you had not been chanting...It was still a victory in SGI's eyes--even with no daimoku! Fancy that!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2012 05:21AM by Shavoy.

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Hitch

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dragon14
I was in Boston in the late 80s, and as a YMD then, I took a lot of trips to Flushing Meadow in Queens to participate in these same kinds of activities. One time, George Williams made an appearance while we were sweltering in the sun. To this day, the "Ay Ay Oh" stuff also makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. In a five minute "guidance and encouragement", we'd do that cheer about 15 times, and follow it up with the ever-contrived and practiced-in-advance "let's have a picture with Rijicho!". Those photo ops - argh! - spontaneous my a**! Unlike some contributors who have said they value the time they spent in the SGI even though they're no longer members, I still feel regret at the valuable time I wasted on these cultish activities.

Different part of the country, EXACT SAME "spontaneous" photo ops with Williams. Amazing, isn't it!

I regret all the time I wasted with the practice. I value none of it. "Value Creation" society? Not for me. More like "Misery, Mind Games & Energy Draining Cult." SGI = Such Gullible Idiots.

You know, the more I read this mb, the more memories that it brings back. Here's one (I don't know how I forgot this, because they told it so many times) :

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dragon14
I also recall a time when someone told me (a secondhand account) about Richard Sasaki (the then YMD chief) coming to New York and in some "guidance" telling the YMD that they were "pussies" for not doing more daimoku. It's right in line with what you reference: problems are solved by doing more shakubuku and daimoku, even if the rest of your life suffers from neglect.

YD were supposed to be treated like crap (and we were). It was supposed to make you a stronger member - literally. Did they ever tell you, or anybody else, this story? They used to relish in sharing with us, stories about how the Kansai Japanese YD, during their "famous" campaigns, performed in the mud and rain and willingly wore adult diapers so that they wouldn't have to leave the field/stadium/seats for even a moment. That "Kansai Fighting Spirit", with your diapers full, made you a better member. I kid you not. I'm 100% serious. We were told to strive for that same kind of "spirit." The implication was very clear - that if called upon, it would be a honor to sh** our pants for sensei.

I honestly don't know how or why I ever sat thru this kind of stuff (pun intended). If I were to hear this kind of crazy brainwashed nonsense today, I wouldn't hesitate to stand up and leave immediately. Certified crazy idiocy. Like I said before, if I hadn't lived it, I wouldn't believe it myself.

You know Hitch, they will call you imbalanced and a liar but it's all true. Reminds me of that female astronaut who was so obsessive compulsive that she drove 1500 miles with a diaper to kill her husband's mistress. Who is imbalanced, you or the SGI youth? SGI breeds evil men and women leaders and fosters mental illness among the members.

Nichijew

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corboy

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That "Kansai Fighting Spirit", with your diapers full, made you a better member. I kid you not. I'm 100% serious. We were told to strive for that same kind of "spirit." The implication was very clear - that if called upon, it would be a honor to sh** our pants for sensei.

Here is a possibly byproduct of this extreme behavior.

It would isolate the subject from anyone outside of SG.

How can you let any outsider know that you wore diapers regressed so much that you sat in your own shit for the honor of a leader?

This becomes a secret that binds you yet more closely to the other diaper wearers.

And once a person has been through this - it would be so much more difficult to admit to misgivings later on. That would mean having to admit to oneself that one was used, manipulated, made to crap and poop, all in service of of dictator.

How can a person come home to themselves again and awaken to the embarassment after having been through this?

That's exactly what it is corboy. As further evidence, I'll add that I only ever heard this kind of talk in HARDCORE YMD meetings. Nowhere else. The ones where no other division members were around and the wild-eyed Japanese-American YMD leaders and caucasian wanna-be Japanese leaders crawled out of their cages and were let loose to mentally subjugate the ymd.

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tsukimoto
The Division structure was a bit demeaning, I thought. You had Men's Division, and Women's Division, and Young Men's Division (YMD) and Young Women's Division (YWD). The criteria for moving from Young Women's Division to Women's Division, or from Young Men's Division to Men's Division seemed to be having a child -- at least in my area. Perhaps this works in Japan, where most people tend to marry and start families at the same age. Americans are more inclined to reach certain milestones like marriage and children at different ages. In the United States, if you're nineteen and have a child, you're in Women's Division. I never did have a child, so I was in my late thirties and in YWD. I felt put-down by this, as if SGI was saying that I was not really an adult because I didn't have a child. Plus, a lot of the YWD were way younger than I was, in high school and college. I was not interested in the things that they liked -- and they probably felt that doing activities with me was like hanging out with their mother's friends. But Japan decreed you were YWD until you gave birth or adopted, so there you have it.

I wasn't the only one trapped in YWD or YMD -- a lot of the members in our area were gay, and so were not going to marry or have children. The guidance at the time was, of course, to chant more daimoku and do more shakabuku so that they'd become straight! That was before SGI realized that many gay members were very dedicated, willing to contribute lots of time and money to SGI -- so now, of course, SGI is all for diversity and tolerance.

The divisions exist so that they can fine-tune the indoctrination to resonate with the mindset of each group. Don't forget jr. pioneers for the really small kiddos, too (I remember the big focus in jr. pioneers was daimoku coloring charts - is that what they were called? Each square was something like 5 minutes of chanting and you got to color as many squares as you chanted. You even had to turn them in at the next meeting and get a sticker if you filled enough in or some other prize if you requested and filled in extra charts. If you didn't, well, you were a bad, bad boy or girl. Boo-Hoo!).

Speaking from experience, there was a lot mental and verbal abuse in the YD meetings. They did it simply because they could and it was also a means to indoctrinate the younger members to become the kinds of ideal MD & WD members/leaders that they later wanted them to become.

Speaking of which:

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tsukimoto
I knew a single man, in his fifties but still part of YMD. He had to appeal considerably up the chain-of-command in SGI to be released from being part of this roller-skating human pyramid -- he had arthritis and back problems. Even then, I wondered why he didn't just refuse to participate -- why did he feel that he needed permission not to?

That's exactly the kind of stuff I mean.

Luckily, I was slowly becoming more and more of a critical thinker around that time and my brain was becoming increasingly insulated to the manipulation. Many of the other youth were model sheep - baaaaaahh - doing anything and everything they were told, like building 5-story (?) human pyramids on roller skates to the "Rocky" music theme, screaming nmrk at the top of their lungs to succeed and have no accidents in practices. Complete bizzaro world stuff. I was in the brass band at the time so I got to sit on the sidelines and watch it all; I remember thinking, "these people have completely lost their minds." The ymd leaders foaming at the mouth and screaming them on. Stark, raving madness. Sometimes I wonder what ever happened to those people, especially the one at the top of the pyramid who was biggest guinea pig of all, 5 stories up, waving a flag like a madman. Are they still nuts or did they ever manage to get off the hamster wheel, and reclaim their sanity and lives?

It's all indeed true, Nichijew. I couldn't make this stuff up, even if I tried. Non-mentally ill members? I know this may sound harsh, but is there any other kind? If you're brainwashed, you are mentally ill, IMO.

Just did a quick search and came up with this:

"Once of the most memorable of these early culture festivals was in
Chubu in September, 1982. It was pouring rain and all the organizers
got together at 5AM to do morning gongyo. When they finished at 6AM,
Sensei turned around to ask the YWD behind him if it was going to
stop raining. She didn't know what to say, and Sensei said, "You are
merciless. We are not God so we have no way of knowing whether this
rain will stop or not, but our prayer should be that it must stop no
matter what." Sensei ordered 30,000 towels to put on the ground so
it wouldn't be so muddy, and thousands of umbrellas and raincoats.
He went to the field very early and said, "Congratulations on this
great victory!" Then he went from the first base to the outfield to
encourage 20,000 flashcard youth division. They would have to be
there for 8 hours awaiting the late afternoon show. For the last 2
weeks they had been controlling their meals so they wouldn't have to
go to the bathroom on this day. Still, many of them wore diapers as
a precautionary measure since it would be impossible for the to get
up once they were seated. Many of them had been inactive members,
older teenagers who had showed up with their girlfriends for the
first practice. Sensei realized how important it was that they have
as good an experience as possible this meetings."

I can't speak as to the veracity of the rest of the article, but this is the same story that I heard (although the versions I heard were much more detailed and/or embellished) many times back in the ymd. Full article link here [groups.yahoo.com].

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Hitch
It's all indeed true, Nichijew. I couldn't make this stuff up, even if I tried. Non-mentally ill members? I know this may sound harsh, but is there any other kind? If you're brainwashed, you are mentally ill, IMO.

Just did a quick search and came up with this:

"Once of the most memorable of these early culture festivals was in
Chubu in September, 1982. It was pouring rain and all the organizers
got together at 5AM to do morning gongyo. When they finished at 6AM,
Sensei turned around to ask the YWD behind him if it was going to
stop raining. She didn't know what to say, and Sensei said, "You are
merciless. We are not God so we have no way of knowing whether this
rain will stop or not, but our prayer should be that it must stop no
matter what." Sensei ordered 30,000 towels to put on the ground so
it wouldn't be so muddy, and thousands of umbrellas and raincoats.
He went to the field very early and said, "Congratulations on this
great victory!" Then he went from the first base to the outfield to
encourage 20,000 flashcard youth division. They would have to be
there for 8 hours awaiting the late afternoon show. For the last 2
weeks they had been controlling their meals so they wouldn't have to
go to the bathroom on this day. Still, many of them wore diapers as
a precautionary measure since it would be impossible for the to get
up once they were seated. Many of them had been inactive members,
older teenagers who had showed up with their girlfriends for the
first practice. Sensei realized how important it was that they have
as good an experience as possible this meetings."

I can't speak as to the veracity of the rest of the article, but this is the same story that I heard (although the versions I heard were much more detailed and/or embellished) many times back in the ymd. Full article link here [groups.yahoo.com].

Maybe that's why some people call them the Soka Kaki?

Nichijew

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Nichijew

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ScoobyDooby

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[email
Shavoy@Wakatta1...your[/email] list is great! I like especially "Singing "Forever Sensei" for the umpty millionth time and wondering if any of those "smiling people" truly were."

I liked that one, too. My teenaged son always comments on the photos of people in the WT with their forced smiles.

My this place has been very quiet...

We've all rejoined the Soka Gakkai. We can only change it from within...................................NOT

Mark

I'm pretty good at faking it, if need be. In fact, I did for a long time, before getting out.

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Nichijew
Nichijew who wishes he knew more about the inner workings of the SGI cult. A fly on the wall in SGI headquarters would be ideal. Where is Wikileaks when we need them?

I could easily reinfiltrate the organization and climb up the ladder. Trust me, would not be a problem as far as I'm concerned.

Hmmm, something to think about.

Watch your back sg/sgi-x. ;)

Hitch J. Assange.

One common reaction I have gotten when they (the SGI people) talk about Mentor and Disciple is that the idea of M-D gets lost in translation, or they say something like they don't worship Ikeda. I have heard this often. I can't buy it. I have looked up what a mentor means, and I have l looked up what disciple means. To me, I agree with Shavoy in that it is one thing to be a disciple of Jesus, but not of Ikeda.

I also wonder what the leaders and such would say if I said I wanted to take Nichiren or Shakyamuni as my mentor. I would love to see the look on their faces. I also feel that in recent SGI meetings, one is allowed to ask questions, but there is this hidden restriction of what is okay to ask, and what is not.

Anyhow, enough for now. Thanks for all your posts!

About the shitting in ones diapers during mass rallies --

Its a bonding ritual, too as well as a secret one usually cannot disclose to ones family and acquaintances.

Robert Twigger, in his book Angry White Pyjamas, told that the workouts were so harsh at the Yoshinkan Aikdo dojo, that barfing was common. So very common that a protocol was in place. You did not leave the room. Instead, you barfed into your workout clothes and continued to practice kata, which meant you stewed in your own barf and your practice partners got it rubbed in, too.

But...Twigger felt able to write about this. Some of the sitting in ones shit may be part of the military/indoctrinational ethos.

Buddha, so the story goes, had been trained not only as a prince but as a warrior and had practiced harsh bodily austerities only to find that trashing his body did not assist him in waking up. And he did not teach a method of indoctrination, either.

More about shitting ones pants.

Anyone who has been a hard core martial artist, bicycle racer, member of a biker club and yes, combat veterans will know all about this. They wont laugh at you.

But its something to be kept secret from most civilians.

In a perverse way it is a bonding ritual--driven by the afflictive primitive emotions that Buddha did not inflame but instead taught us to apply insight to -- not stir up further. Humans are already primitive enough, without a dictator dragging us further into the primal swamp.

Bikers: Read that part of the initiation ritual in some clubs is when a newbie has earned his colors (the vest with the club emblem on the back) all the members piss on his new vest. The person who wrote this said its common for bikers to pee in their own jeans without stopping to take a leak. Gotta get used to it, so turn it into part of the intiation ritual.

During Tour de France, one champion was ill with diarrhea and insisted on riding and shat in his shorts whilst racing. And kept right on.

From what I have read, shitting and having diarrhea in ones clothes is part of the process during military basic training and in battlefield conditions.

Karl Marlantes, in his book, What It Is Like To Go To War, tells how he was desperate to get onto a helicopter and get some much-needed R & R he was entitled to.

He and his men had been in Vietnam, in the jungle for weeks, months. US Marine practice means keeping clean and organized, but in the jungle, this was impossible. Some men were so covered in fungal infection that they went naked because doing so was less uncomfortable than wearing underwear which chafed their tortured hides.

Marlentes lefted off in the helicopter, and described his own condition - utter filth and his trousers were foul with diarrhea (everyone got sick out there) --and, he confesses, - cum.

A survivor of the seige of Khe Sanh, Ernest Spencer USMC- ret, wrote in Welcome to Vietnam, Macho Man, that being filthy became a badge of honor. You were a combat soldier, the real deal. SPencer would fly to staff meetings at Da Nang covered in filth and refuse to shower before the meeting. It proved he wasnt a Rear Echelon M****r F****R Part of the contempt Spencer and his Khe Sanh troops had for the Air Force pilots was that the latter were always clean. Real warriors were filth pigs.

In the shit meant being in the war zone.

So Ikeda and his goons are using those rallies to turn people into shock troops, whether its door to door leafletting or bullying anyone inside the org who has doubts or less than scintillating vitality.

Finallly, there is a health risk if you restrict water intake and then sit for hours feeling stressed out.

Blood clots in ones legs. (People on long airline flights risk getting those)

Inflamed leg veins are serious and if a clot breaks loose and goes into the wrong artery you can have a stroke or die from a pulmonary embolism.

Would be FFFing interesting to find out what the rate of lower vein vascular illness is for hard core SG members.

And---am not pulling for laughs on this one -- anal fissure and piles. All that sitting all that standing is a risk factor.

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corboy
About the shitting in ones diapers during mass rallies --

Its a bonding ritual, too as well as a secret one usually cannot disclose to ones family and acquaintances.

Robert Twigger, in his book Angry White Pyjamas, told that the workouts were so harsh at the Yoshinkan Aikdo dojo, that barfing was common. So very common that a protocol was in place. You did not leave the room. Instead, you barfed into your workout clothes and continued to practice kata, which meant you stewed in your own barf and your practice partners got it rubbed in, too.

But...Twigger felt able to write about this. Some of the sitting in ones shit may be part of the military/indoctrinational ethos.

Buddha, so the story goes, had been trained not only as a prince but as a warrior and had practiced harsh bodily austerities only to find that trashing his body did not assist him in waking up. And he did not teach a method of indoctrination, either.

More about shitting ones pants.

Anyone who has been a hard core martial artist, bicycle racer, member of a biker club and yes, combat veterans will know all about this. They wont laugh at you.

But its something to be kept secret from most civilians.

In a perverse way it is a bonding ritual--driven by the afflictive primitive emotions that Buddha did not inflame but instead taught us to apply insight to -- not stir up further. Humans are already primitive enough, without a dictator dragging us further into the primal swamp.

Bikers: Read that part of the initiation ritual in some clubs is when a newbie has earned his colors (the vest with the club emblem on the back) all the members piss on his new vest. The person who wrote this said its common for bikers to pee in their own jeans without stopping to take a leak. Gotta get used to it, so turn it into part of the intiation ritual.

During Tour de France, one champion was ill with diarrhea and insisted on riding and shat in his shorts whilst racing. And kept right on.

From what I have read, shitting and having diarrhea in ones clothes is part of the process during military basic training and in battlefield conditions.

Karl Marlantes, in his book, What It Is Like To Go To War, tells how he was desperate to get onto a helicopter and get some much-needed R & R he was entitled to.

He and his men had been in Vietnam, in the jungle for weeks, months. US Marine practice means keeping clean and organized, but in the jungle, this was impossible. Some men were so covered in fungal infection that they went naked because doing so was less uncomfortable than wearing underwear which chafed their tortured hides.

Marlentes lefted off in the helicopter, and described his own condition - utter filth and his trousers were foul with diarrhea (everyone got sick out there) --and, he confesses, - cum.

A survivor of the seige of Khe Sanh, Ernest Spencer USMC- ret, wrote in Welcome to Vietnam, Macho Man, that being filthy became a badge of honor. You were a combat soldier, the real deal. SPencer would fly to staff meetings at Da Nang covered in filth and refuse to shower before the meeting. It proved he wasnt a Rear Echelon M****r F****R Part of the contempt Spencer and his Khe Sanh troops had for the Air Force pilots was that the latter were always clean. Real warriors were filth pigs.

In the shit meant being in the war zone.

So Ikeda and his goons are using those rallies to turn people into shock troops, whether its door to door leafletting or bullying anyone inside the org who has doubts or less than scintillating vitality.

Brings back memories of my father. He was a Master Sgt in the Big Red 1. He told me a story that for forty days and forty nights, he never took off his clothes or his boots because he was either attacking or running away from the enemy day and night. When he took off his boots and outer clothes, his socks and underwear had disintegrated, he had trench foot and sores all over his body, as you describe.

I would call SGI "army light". Certainly, they are Buddhism light.

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2012 12:38AM by Nichijew.