Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: bobze39 ()
Date: February 18, 2012 08:20AM

Dear Nichijew, I received your private message, I replied with a thank you note, but it said that your mailbox was full, so I decided to write to you right here. Thank you for believing in my story (after all it's just another human story, all human stories have some drama, some emotions, some interesting twists and so on, I am sure your own story is just as interesting). Also thank you for your offer to give me a recommendation letter. As for your request to tell you more about my case, I can only say, there is not much more to add. My story differs a bit from the rest of stories here in a sense, that I was unlucky enough (but even that is a questinable statement, I mean the very notion of "luck" is very subjective) to get involved with a woman, who was a very close friend of Danny Nagashima, and personally knew Daisaku Ikeda. I can only say, that when going out with a woman like that (who is a friend of SUCH A POWERFUL people), one has to be extremely careful, and I wasn't. I mean I could as well go out with a daughter of a MAFIA BOSS, and behave like a jerk and tick her off! But SGI leaders are much more powerful and rich and connected than mafia bosses, who are just some street gangsters in comparison. And so I went out with such a woman and managed to tick her off! The rest was obvious. I mean I am still alive, but I could forget about getting a job in THIS town! Now, THIS TOWN translates pretty much as the whole world, when it comes to SGI. They have high-level connections in 200 countries!

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: February 18, 2012 09:47AM

Quote
wakatta1
. . . it was packaged and sold as a "deep oriental philosophy that provides an answer to lifes issues" it was incredibly oversold. That overselling was for the most part the core of the cover-up, and the skimming of donations and thought control that came along with that sunk its roots deeply into the organization. Once a lie is told, then another lie must be told to cover up for it. Each layer of dishonest begets another, and eventually you wind up with a fabric totally composed of lies (and their brothers half-truth, inuendo, implication, supposition and of course deception).

Here's a very small example: they routinely extorted $$$ from brass band members in the form of uniform cleaning fees at (adjusted for inflation) $45 bucks a pop, per member, per cleaning. Only problem was, they kept collecting the money, but never actually cleaned the uniforms. This was sometimes on a monthly basis at the height of the gakkai frenzy era, with about a hundred band members participating each time. Many complained, but all they did was scream louder (red faced, bulging eyes and spittle sprayed yelling was common in the ymd) that you had to pay it (not letting you leave and/or taking your name down); this even happened within the hallowed halls of the world culture center (Santa Monica national HQ). Neat little racket if you can get away with it and a heck of a way to treat the "treasured" youth division.

Quote
holly_golightly
When expressing to a leader that the requirement for me to take on more responsibilities was making me feel sick and anxious at the thought of having even less time for myself and my family, that this could be a sign that I needed to 'trust, let go and open my heart to the activity' i.e take on even more!


We were always being advised about the necessity to lead 'balanced lives' as SGI members so that we could inspire others to practice. But I could never work out how that would be possible with the huge amount of meetings/activities we were expected to attend. Another example of 'doublespeak' I guess.

It's a facade. Some of the hardest practicing "leaders", behind the scenes, had lives that were literally completely unbalanced and neglected in terms of family relations and home life.

Quote
holly_golightly
Being advised many many times by various leaders to always open my heart and say 'yes' (without first considering) to whatever activity/responsibility is asked of me in the SGI.

The ol' "substitute faith for wisdom" adage. This abhorrent phrase means to switch off your critical faculties, become servile and blindly follow. If ever there were a huge red flag, this is one. If anybody uttered this nonsense to me as an adult, I'd turn around, depart and never look back over my shoulder in an instant.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: holly_golightly ()
Date: February 18, 2012 05:26PM

Quote
Nichijew

Hi Holly! You weren't one of the chosen few [wealthy inflential members, famous musicians, or son or daughter of a top leader] who are exhorted to forego activities for the sake of their personal development? What you were, was merely a worker bee leader, a tasty orange who, once consumed, would have been discarded like a useless peel [your body and mind]. Some fifteen years after leaving the Gakkai, I enjoy a state of life unimagined by me during my many years within the organization. A solid family and homelife, respect and influence in the community, way more than adequate income, and abundant joy. The best years of your life are ahead of you. It really is up to you.

Hi Nichijew - yes I can see now how this message is assimilated from the top and by the time it gets to someone like me it is coming out of the mouths of people who really sincerely believe the things they are saying. I'm sure I must have said things like that to other members (although I don't think I could ever bring myself to advise people to say yes without thinking). But at the time I meant these things in the most sincere way, and I guess that's how these things work and why the SGI likes us to 'trust through friendship'.

It's good to hear your account of life getting better. I fully intend on having the best life I can. At the moment I know there are people in SGI who I was very close with who think I will be going to hell now. It's going to be difficult to be honest with them in the future if things do go wrong in my life because they are immediately going to think it's because I'm not practising. So I am keeping my distance.

Quote
Hitch

The ol' "substitute faith for wisdom" adage. This abhorrent phrase means to switch off your critical faculties, become servile and blindly follow. If ever there were a huge red flag, this is one. If anybody uttered this nonsense to me as an adult, I'd turn around, depart and never look back over my shoulder in an instant.

Absolutely! If there is one thing I have learnt from this it is that :)

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: backnforth ()
Date: February 18, 2012 10:59PM

Hello All,

I can attest to life getting better and better when not under the control of the SGI. But I still chant and do gongyo everyday; really enjoy the personal practice - but that's just me.

I haven't been around this thread much; going through a divorce - which is a benefit for me, as well as my spouse I now believe. But it does turn life upside-down.

I will tell you, that NEVER GIVE UP spirit kept me in an unhappy union for quite some time. I now know that is not always appropriate, in fact it is probably rarely appropriate. You cannot force things to be that are not to be. I am much happier as I focus on the quality of each moment and allow things to be as they are. In other words, I opened my eyes and dealt with reality. This happened after I distanced myself from SGI.

Good Luck all!

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Nichijew ()
Date: February 19, 2012 02:46AM

alaried
Quote
bobze39
Dear Nichijew, I received your private message, I replied with a thank you note, but it said that your mailbox was full, so I decided to write to you right here. Thank you for believing in my story (after all it's just another human story, all human stories have some drama, some emotions, some interesting twists and so on, I am sure your own story is just as interesting). Also thank you for your offer to give me a recommendation letter. As for your request to tell you more about my case, I can only say, there is not much more to add. My story differs a bit from the rest of stories here in a sense, that I was unlucky enough (but even that is a questinable statement, I mean the very notion of "luck" is very subjective) to get involved with a woman, who was a very close friend of Danny Nagashima, and personally knew Daisaku Ikeda. I can only say, that when going out with a woman like that (who is a friend of SUCH A POWERFUL people), one has to be extremely careful, and I wasn't. I mean I could as well go out with a daughter of a MAFIA BOSS, and behave like a jerk and tick her off! But SGI leaders are much more powerful and rich and connected than mafia bosses, who are just some street gangsters in comparison. And so I went out with such a woman and managed to tick her off! The rest was obvious. I mean I am still alive, but I could forget about getting a job in THIS town! Now, THIS TOWN translates pretty much as the whole world, when it comes to SGI. They have high-level connections in 200 countries!

Hi Bobze. You surely have a unique situation. Seems more like a Japanese than an American experience. It is surprising that here in America, even in one of their city strongholds, they could wield such power but they are very sneaky and vindictive "Buddhas". They are no different than the scientologists who give some of their former members, especially their outspoken members hell, wherever they find themselves. In your case, it is a personal vendetta. I'm going to Japan in August. I really don't know what to expect with all the Yakuza stories but I will be on my toes. I know thug-jitsu and I have a Bronx born and bred "spidey" sense, so I should be ok.

We don't expect such behavior from them because of the justice, righteousness, and Buddha crap we have been fed by them. Sure, we expect some phone calls and the requisite home visitations but not the harrassment that some of us experience. Perhaps the top leaders, especially the salaried leaders know the real deal and thats why they don't leave. Perhaps too, they don't possess or they lose their skills to function in the real world.

They never harrassed me because I left no doubt about my feelings and intentions. I had so many personal problems because of them and their religion, at the time I left, that I would have preferred jail or death to remaining in the Gakkai. I'm sorry that you have experienced such hardship at their hands. Since you are practically an exile from your chosen field and even within your own community, you might have no choice but to move. The alternative to leaving the Gakkai, remaining a brainwashed Ikedabot or a milktoast in perpetual fear of them, is not an option.

Nichijew



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2012 02:51AM by Nichijew.

Re: Soka Gakkai -- SGI = Catch-22
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 19, 2012 07:15AM

You can see all these SGI mind-tricks to keep people stuck in SGI for years or for life.
Its like a hamster on a wheel trying to run harder to get off.
If you are tired, work harder and longer hours!

If things aren't going well, then chant harder and more! The more you chant, the less action you take, so the worse it gets. You ask for advice, and they tell you your chanting isn't being done properly, you are chanting too hard, or not enough. So chant more, or "release" the chanting harder.

This is the same sales-trick used in many sects, like the Sedona Release Technique. [forum.culteducation.com]


SGI gets you trapped inside a...

Catch-22
[en.wikipedia.org]

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: February 19, 2012 07:34AM

Quote
cyclops
While I was distancing myself I was called by leaders for a “home visitation” , if you are asked for one “just say no!” once they get into a home visitation situation then the mind games begin usually 3 of them will visit to see how they can “help you” or reprogram you. Also please be aware that even if you decline a home visitation you just may get an unannounced one where they just show up @ the door. Then you have to be a little blunt with them – I told them that I don’t do “home visitations” and closed the door.

Home "V's" are a pet-peeve of mine and I dislike them with a passion.

They are nothing more than an excuse to get into the members' personal space and lives, in order to then later go back and gossip about what was learned (either look down on and pity you if they feel you are below them OR make jealous comments about perceived material wealth but spiritual poverty if you were seen to be above them). The results would also eventually make it around the WD's grapevine and quickly be incorporated into their collective (trust me, every single other WD member and leader would also know every detail that was gleaned - in fact, some of them really relished in this stuff).

Any truly compassionate, genuine and heartfelt dialogue first starts with each party expressing a desire to meet and then agreeing on a time and a place. It should also be confidential and respected. Home visitations were never as such. They were ambush visits, pure and simple. My view on them is that since they are rude to show up unannounced, you are within your rights to be as equally rude in telling them where to go if you wish. Unless, of course, you happen to be in the mood to have some fun and surprise them by debating and lecturing them first (it isn't hard at all, because they cannot think critically and all of their replies are canned cliches) and telling them what you think of them. I've found the latter approach to be effective if you can make them uncomfortable enough to wish that they had not come to visit you in the first place (it really isn't in my nature to be that way, but after having dealt with these people for a good part of my youthful years, everybody has a tolerance threshold).

My message, fwiw, is - home visitations: don't take part in them and don't allow any of them to come to you, either (and you will have to be firm).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2012 07:44AM by Hitch.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: bobze39 ()
Date: February 19, 2012 08:26AM

Nichijew, you are absolutely right, my experience does sound more like Japanese experience. One of the reasons could be that in Los Angeles (where it all happened) the concentration of SGI members per square meter is the highest in US, and probably highest in the world outside of Japan (except maybe South Korea). And because I used to live in Korea Town, close to downtown LA, and meetings were in Korean language, which I couldn't understand, I was lucky enough to get invited to attend meetings in Orange County, right in the district, where Danny Nagashima lives (at least lived at the time). Of course, at the time, I didn't think much of it, I mean I didn't realize what power these people have! Those areas of Orange County are very nice, and so I just enjoyed the ride, even inspite of getting stuck in traffic in 405 (I was just chanting). Then I got invited to volunteer in SGI warehouse (close to the airport). That's where I met this nice lady. Our affair was brief, but nice, I actually remember feeling very happy going out with her and two of her friends to karaoke bar. I sang Elvis Presley "Teddy Bear" and danced, and then we went bowling, it was very nice! I mean I was little bit alarmed, when she said: "If you break my heart, I will kill you, at least I will kill you socially", I felt "wow, dangerous woman", like in Michael Jackson song, and I kept staring at her hips during Daimoku sessions, as I was sitting little bit behind (I don't know if you noticed, when women chanting sitting on their feet, that kind of make their hips even rounder). In any case, getting back to the story, something went wrong, it always does in relationships, and we had an unfriendly (mildly speaking) break-up. That was unfortunate, because she did introduce me to some important people (besides Danny Nagashima), one of them was a head of music department at Soka University, who was going to help me to get a job there. (At the time I was finishing my Doctor of Music Arts program at USC, and I was looking for a college teaching position.) I am just saying that if I played my cards right, I could benefit from these relationships. But after our break-up, all the important people she introduced me to, stopped returning my calls, and didn't want to talk to me. But that was just the beginning. Oversudden, my academic advisor and mentor at USC totally changed his attitude, and pretty much shut his door. (Before that we were friends). Nobody wanted to give me recommendation letters (before that there was no problem with that). My teachers and friends turned away from me. I sent my resumes to some colleges, and received negative replies, which was fine, but from one college I received a letter from their HR office, saying sarcastically "This time of the year it's not easy to get references, but in your case we received more than plenty." I went to this college, UCSB, and did my little investigation. It turned out that some strange people were calling HR office, telling them not to hire a "lunatic" and gave them my name. I don't know how, but they had information about which colleges I applied for a job! And then much more followed.
Any case, Mark, have a nice trip to Japan, it seems that you are self-employed, and your position is very stable, so you don't have to worry about "some people" contacting your boss about you. Once again, thanks for your emotional support!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2012 08:52AM by bobze39.

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Nichijew ()
Date: February 19, 2012 09:24AM

That is crazy Bobze. I am a professional but an employe and I am well positioned to fight off any attacks by them. A letter from a lawyer might help. They leave me alone because I think they actually believe something terrible will happen to me. If it does, it will be because I smoke, not for criticizing their horrible cult.

Mark

Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: February 19, 2012 01:25PM

Quote
rattyboy
Back in the late '80s during the high pressure NSA/SGI days, . . . I watched a group of young men's division members, (all of us dressed in our 'whites'), pressure a new member to shave his mustache before some big event the next day. He was not into that idea at all but they kept at him. Some of them with borrowed Japanese accents. (Remember the non-Japanese taking on the Japanese accent? Wow.) And he kept arguing back. The next day, the mustache was gone just in time for the big event. I think I was beaming with a smile about this with the other young men. What victory had we achieved? Did this show the almighty power of Buddhism?

Quote
sushigrl
I always thought the people faking the Japanese accents were crazy. Neh! Some people were also studying Japanese so they could some day talk to Hentai oops I mean Sensie. I misspelled that on purpose :)

I've always been really impressed when they mastered the broken grammatical sentences along with the sucking in air thru their teeth sound, as well. (Enjoy Mr. Saki in the clip below.) (Oh, and yes, you are correct, they are indeed a bit unbalanced upstairs; it's a form of partial identification in psychology.)

Quote
bobze39
I was little bit alarmed, when she said: "If you break my heart, I will kill you, at least I will kill you socially", I felt "wow, dangerous woman", like in Michael Jackson song, and I kept staring at her hips during Daimoku sessions, as I was sitting little bit behind (I don't know if you noticed, when women chanting sitting on their feet, that kind of make their hips even rounder).

You should make a follow-up clip to this [www.youtube.com] and that is some serious bodhisattva of the earth character your ex has. Don't feel bad bob, thinking with the wrong head is all a part of growing up.

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