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tsukimoto

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Shavoy
And that Mr. Williams will be thrown under the bus under the protection of "It's Fiction!"...It's been said on this thread more than once already, but Mr. W. was probably kicked to the side and out the door because he was grabbing more than his share of the Top Dog Pie.
.

Some people say that GW's real crime was becoming more popular than Ikeda.

Many pages back, we had a poster, Commongirl, who claimed that she and her family knew George Williams -- and that he was having an affair with the Young Women's Division leader, that he treated the Women's Division members like his personal servants, and that he didn't think that the non-Japanese members were truly capable of understanding Buddhism. Maybe she's right, maybe she's not. I have no way of knowing.

My feeling though, is that if Williams was guilty of wrongdoing -- it should have been brought out at the time. Let him tell his side of things. If people were wronged by him -- let them tell their story. It's cowardly to attack him now. He's elderly, ill, I believe he has dementia. He can no longer defend himself. It's hardly a coincidence that Ikeda has just now put out the new volume of Human Revolution, and tossed old George under the bus.

Both Mr. Williams and Mrs Williams deny these charges. They think it's crazy. After making lists of the various things being said currently in the SGI against GMW I checked carefully and found that the charges are all inferences, rumors and lies, including the supposed affair and so called embezzlement. I do know who started the affair rumor though.. Some of you may have seen the videos I made on the subject my youtube channel is theremonstration.

GMW was guilty of being naive and trusting. he did know that the USA was much different from Japan and he became an American and proud of it. It was egoed-out employees at the Culture center and Ikeda that demonized him. Ikeda manipulated it all. Since at least 1974 he was undermined by Ikeda.

In his advanced years he is blissfully naive of the charges agaisnt him. He says it is "hard to believe." when informed of the accusations.

Here is my youtube channel:

[www.youtube.com]

I will also have more information on my website

www.saddharmapundarika.com


David



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2011 06:44AM by rialcnis.

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rialcnis

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tsukimoto

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Shavoy
And that Mr. Williams will be thrown under the bus under the protection of "It's Fiction!"...It's been said on this thread more than once already, but Mr. W. was probably kicked to the side and out the door because he was grabbing more than his share of the Top Dog Pie.
.

Some people say that GW's real crime was becoming more popular than Ikeda.

Many pages back, we had a poster, Commongirl, who claimed that she and her family knew George Williams -- and that he was having an affair with the Young Women's Division leader, that he treated the Women's Division members like his personal servants, and that he didn't think that the non-Japanese members were truly capable of understanding Buddhism. Maybe she's right, maybe she's not. I have no way of knowing.

My feeling though, is that if Williams was guilty of wrongdoing -- it should have been brought out at the time. Let him tell his side of things. If people were wronged by him -- let them tell their story. It's cowardly to attack him now. He's elderly, ill, I believe he has dementia. He can no longer defend himself. It's hardly a coincidence that Ikeda has just now put out the new volume of Human Revolution, and tossed old George under the bus.

Both Mr. Williams and Mrs Williams deny these charges. They think it's crazy. After making lists of the various things being said currently in the SGI against GMW I checked carefully and found that the charges are all inferences, rumors and lies, including the supposed affair and so called embezzlement. I do know who started the affair rumor though.. Some of you may have seen the videos I made on the subject my youtube channel is theremonstration.

GMW was guilty of being naive and trusting. he did know that the USA was much different from Japan and he became an American and proud of it. It was egoed-out employees at the Culture center and Ikeda that demonized him. Ikeda manipulated it all. Since at least 1974 he was undermined by Ikeda.

In his advanced years he is blissfully naive of the charges agaisnt him. He says it is "hard to believe." when informed of the accusations.

Here is my youtube channel:

[www.youtube.com]

I will also have more information on my website

www.saddharmapundarika.com


David

I checked out the youtube footage of Mr. Williams...seeing him with his head of white hair, and with a good spirit...(unfortunately this computer doesn't allow for audio, so I can only go on his expressions, it seems like he's in good spirits).

I and many fellow members found him to be quite the dynamo back in his day. He certainly inspired my practice. He was very popular with the American members and that popularity could not be sustained because it was a major threat to P.I. Ain't room enough in this town for two sheriffs, ya know........

The Anti-Cult...I have to say that Sai Baba sounds extremely hard-core. I clicked on the link and read a bit and wow....

Your comments tie in with what Tsukimoto said, how the marketing is very specific. People who are comfortable with the M/D angle will dive in. If you are a critical thinker who sees the shades of grey beyond black and white, SGI will skim over you. They are indeed getting what they want to get.

There is another aspect of SGI, that has been discussed here before. Did you ever have a feeling, when you came to SGI meetings, that you are in a looney bin and surrounded by a bunch of loonies? Honestly? I don't mean it in a bad way, in fact, in the beginning this is what attracted me to SGI, I thought it was very diverse and unconventional. Of course, in part, it was because I lived in Los Angeles, and percentage of loonies in LA is high anyway. But even reading stories on this thread about how people joined SGI, I also noticed that a lot people were depressed or lonely or had some kind of problems in their lives at the time they joined SGI. I am not an exception. At the time I was "shakabukued", I was in a very vulnerable state, away from my family, alone, and deeply depressed. I was attending group therapy sessions, and frankly, similarity between group therapy sessions and SGI meetings was very appealing. Sense of similarity was increased by the fact, that every group therapy session started with silent relaxation and every SGI meeting started with chanting. At SGI meetings I heard a lot of stories about how SGI practice helped people to overcome their psychological problems and depression. One leader openely told me that collective labor has a healing psychological effect. And it did in my case! I did some free labor at SGI warehouse and always felt good afterwards. And, of course, people with psychological troubles would accept the concept of Mentor/Disciple relationships, as they accept Therapist/Patient relationships. In Southern California almost everyone goes to a therapist. It's easier to convince people who are in a mentally vulnerable state to work for free and to give donations. So, SGI targets people, who are alone, depressed, in a mentally vulnerable state and takes advantage of them.

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Shavoy

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rialcnis

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tsukimoto

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Shavoy
And that Mr. Williams will be thrown under the bus under the protection of "It's Fiction!"...It's been said on this thread more than once already, but Mr. W. was probably kicked to the side and out the door because he was grabbing more than his share of the Top Dog Pie.
.

Some people say that GW's real crime was becoming more popular than Ikeda.

Many pages back, we had a poster, Commongirl, who claimed that she and her family knew George Williams -- and that he was having an affair with the Young Women's Division leader, that he treated the Women's Division members like his personal servants, and that he didn't think that the non-Japanese members were truly capable of understanding Buddhism. Maybe she's right, maybe she's not. I have no way of knowing.

My feeling though, is that if Williams was guilty of wrongdoing -- it should have been brought out at the time. Let him tell his side of things. If people were wronged by him -- let them tell their story. It's cowardly to attack him now. He's elderly, ill, I believe he has dementia. He can no longer defend himself. It's hardly a coincidence that Ikeda has just now put out the new volume of Human Revolution, and tossed old George under the bus.

Both Mr. Williams and Mrs Williams deny these charges. They think it's crazy. After making lists of the various things being said currently in the SGI against GMW I checked carefully and found that the charges are all inferences, rumors and lies, including the supposed affair and so called embezzlement. I do know who started the affair rumor though.. Some of you may have seen the videos I made on the subject my youtube channel is theremonstration.

GMW was guilty of being naive and trusting. he did know that the USA was much different from Japan and he became an American and proud of it. It was egoed-out employees at the Culture center and Ikeda that demonized him. Ikeda manipulated it all. Since at least 1974 he was undermined by Ikeda.

In his advanced years he is blissfully naive of the charges agaisnt him. He says it is "hard to believe." when informed of the accusations.

Here is my youtube channel:

[www.youtube.com]

I will also have more information on my website

www.saddharmapundarika.com


David

I checked out the youtube footage of Mr. Williams...seeing him with his head of white hair, and with a good spirit...(unfortunately this computer doesn't allow for audio, so I can only go on his expressions, it seems like he's in good spirits).

I and many fellow members found him to be quite the dynamo back in his day. He certainly inspired my practice. He was very popular with the American members and that popularity could not be sustained because it was a major threat to P.I. Ain't room enough in this town for two sheriffs, ya know........

sicne you don;y have audio...you hear the tail end of "The Impossible Dream" ..."thhhhe unreachable star..." Then I asked him if he has any message to the people who remember him as the NSA leader and someone who really helped people learn buddhism?"

And he says "All Happiness!"

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bobze39
There is another aspect of SGI, that has been discussed here before. Did you ever have a feeling, when you came to SGI meetings, that you are in a looney bin and surrounded by a bunch of loonies?

It's easier to convince people who are in a mentally vulnerable state to work for free and to give donations. So, SGI targets people, who are alone, depressed, in a mentally vulnerable state and takes advantage of them.

Bob, this was my experience too....joining SGI at a very low point in my life. From what I've read recently, this is a very common thing. People are much more likely to join cults when they are in a crisis, depressed, going through some kind of change, feeling isolated.

And yes, I've been in group therapy, and SGI group meetings did feel similar to me. Both featured a lot of intense sharing about trying to overcome your struggles in life. There's also the custom of getting "guidance." The difference is that a therapist actually has to have some training and demonstrate that they are qualified before they start advising people. And again, cults often encourage people to "confess" and share deeply personal things. A leader can manipulate you better if they know your weaknesses, problems, fears, what you feel guilty about.

After the SGI/priesthood split, and the increased emphasis on Mentor/Disciple -- I began to feel like I was in the loony bin in a different way. I began thinking, "This makes no sense -- and yet the other members really seem to be buying it! Are they crazy -- or am I?"

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tsukimoto

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bobze39
There is another aspect of SGI, that has been discussed here before. Did you ever have a feeling, when you came to SGI meetings, that you are in a looney bin and surrounded by a bunch of loonies?

It's easier to convince people who are in a mentally vulnerable state to work for free and to give donations. So, SGI targets people, who are alone, depressed, in a mentally vulnerable state and takes advantage of them.

Bob, this was my experience too....joining SGI at a very low point in my life. From what I've read recently, this is a very common thing. People are much more likely to join cults when they are in a crisis, depressed, going through some kind of change, feeling isolated.

And yes, I've been in group therapy, and SGI group meetings did feel similar to me. Both featured a lot of intense sharing about trying to overcome your struggles in life. There's also the custom of getting "guidance." The difference is that a therapist actually has to have some training and demonstrate that they are qualified before they start advising people. And again, cults often encourage people to "confess" and share deeply personal things. A leader can manipulate you better if they know your weaknesses, problems, fears, what you feel guilty about.

After the SGI/priesthood split, and the increased emphasis on Mentor/Disciple -- I began to feel like I was in the loony bin in a different way. I began thinking, "This makes no sense -- and yet the other members really seem to be buying it! Are they crazy -- or am I?"

tsukimoto, I never questioned whether it was me or them who was crazy. I KNEW it was them!!!!

I think that SGI does not necessarily target people who are in a low period of their life. It welcomes EVERYONE. Those who join, however, are generally in a low period--depressed, lonely, or vulnerable, etc. etc. Those who are NOT in a low period may say "no thanks". It's not always that way, but it seems that it often is. When we did"shakabuku", we invited ANYONE who would come to a meeting!

I agree that SGI is trying to rid itself of those who are able to think for themselves. SGI only wants those who will wholeheartedly buy into the MD nonsense. It very difficult for critical thinkers to remain in the organization.

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quiet one

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tsukimoto

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bobze39
There is another aspect of SGI, that has been discussed here before. Did you ever have a feeling, when you came to SGI meetings, that you are in a looney bin and surrounded by a bunch of loonies?

It's easier to convince people who are in a mentally vulnerable state to work for free and to give donations. So, SGI targets people, who are alone, depressed, in a mentally vulnerable state and takes advantage of them.

Bob, this was my experience too....joining SGI at a very low point in my life. From what I've read recently, this is a very common thing. People are much more likely to join cults when they are in a crisis, depressed, going through some kind of change, feeling isolated.

And yes, I've been in group therapy, and SGI group meetings did feel similar to me. Both featured a lot of intense sharing about trying to overcome your struggles in life. There's also the custom of getting "guidance." The difference is that a therapist actually has to have some training and demonstrate that they are qualified before they start advising people. And again, cults often encourage people to "confess" and share deeply personal things. A leader can manipulate you better if they know your weaknesses, problems, fears, what you feel guilty about.

After the SGI/priesthood split, and the increased emphasis on Mentor/Disciple -- I began to feel like I was in the loony bin in a different way. I began thinking, "This makes no sense -- and yet the other members really seem to be buying it! Are they crazy -- or am I?"

tsukimoto, I never questioned whether it was me or them who was crazy. I KNEW it was them!!!!

I think that SGI does not necessarily target people who are in a low period of their life. It welcomes EVERYONE. Those who join, however, are generally in a low period--depressed, lonely, or vulnerable, etc. etc. Those who are NOT in a low period may say "no thanks". It's not always that way, but it seems that it often is. When we did"shakabuku", we invited ANYONE who would come to a meeting!

I agree that SGI is trying to rid itself of those who are able to think for themselves. SGI only wants those who will wholeheartedly buy into the MD nonsense. It very difficult for critical thinkers to remain in the organization.

Guys, it seems to my probably naive mind that the ultimate goal of Kosen-Rufu is truly "many in body, one in mind" which I believe Nichiren said in his Goshos. If you stamp down critical, "fundamental darkness" thinking, then the ultimate Utopia, KR, will happen, because everyone will think the same way!!

As we know, human minds do not conform into tight boxes. This presents a li-t-t-l-e logisitics problem for the SGI.

You cannot corral an inquiring mind. And inquiring minds do no inherently mean "Fundamental Darknesses".

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Shavoy

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quiet one

Quote
tsukimoto

Quote
bobze39
There is another aspect of SGI, that has been discussed here before. Did you ever have a feeling, when you came to SGI meetings, that you are in a looney bin and surrounded by a bunch of loonies?

It's easier to convince people who are in a mentally vulnerable state to work for free and to give donations. So, SGI targets people, who are alone, depressed, in a mentally vulnerable state and takes advantage of them.

Bob, this was my experience too....joining SGI at a very low point in my life. From what I've read recently, this is a very common thing. People are much more likely to join cults when they are in a crisis, depressed, going through some kind of change, feeling isolated.

And yes, I've been in group therapy, and SGI group meetings did feel similar to me. Both featured a lot of intense sharing about trying to overcome your struggles in life. There's also the custom of getting "guidance." The difference is that a therapist actually has to have some training and demonstrate that they are qualified before they start advising people. And again, cults often encourage people to "confess" and share deeply personal things. A leader can manipulate you better if they know your weaknesses, problems, fears, what you feel guilty about.

After the SGI/priesthood split, and the increased emphasis on Mentor/Disciple -- I began to feel like I was in the loony bin in a different way. I began thinking, "This makes no sense -- and yet the other members really seem to be buying it! Are they crazy -- or am I?"

tsukimoto, I never questioned whether it was me or them who was crazy. I KNEW it was them!!!!

I think that SGI does not necessarily target people who are in a low period of their life. It welcomes EVERYONE. Those who join, however, are generally in a low period--depressed, lonely, or vulnerable, etc. etc. Those who are NOT in a low period may say "no thanks". It's not always that way, but it seems that it often is. When we did"shakabuku", we invited ANYONE who would come to a meeting!

I agree that SGI is trying to rid itself of those who are able to think for themselves. SGI only wants those who will wholeheartedly buy into the MD nonsense. It very difficult for critical thinkers to remain in the organization.

Guys, it seems to my probably naive mind that the ultimate goal of Kosen-Rufu is truly "many in body, one in mind" which I believe Nichiren said in his Goshos. If you stamp down critical, "fundamental darkness" thinking, then the ultimate Utopia, KR, will happen, because everyone will think the same way!!

As we know, human minds do not conform into tight boxes. This presents a li-t-t-l-e logisitics problem for the SGI.

You cannot corral an inquiring mind. And inquiring minds do no inherently mean "Fundamental Darknesses".

You are so right, Shavoy!!!!

rialcnis, Thank you for showing us that (current?) picture of Mr. Williams. I really enjoyed seeing that. Glad to see that he looked OK. Those old days with George, even though they were rather strange, were fun!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO SGI?? It REALLY became NO FUN AT ALL!!!

If we look closer at Daisaku Ikeda, he clearly appears to have 2 psychological disorders - obsessive-compulsive disorder and paranoia. Here is the definition of OCD from Wikipedia:
Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by intrusive thoughts that produce uneasiness, apprehension, fear, or worry, by repetitive behaviors aimed at reducing anxiety, or by a combination of such thoughts (obsessions) and behaviors (compulsions). Symptoms may include repetitive handwashing; extensive hoarding; preoccupation with sexual or aggressive impulses, or with particular religious beliefs; aversion to odd numbers; and nervous habits, such as opening a door and closing it a certain number of times before one enters or leaves a room.
And here is the definition of Paranoia from Wikipedia:
Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself.
Look at Ikeda - he is hiding in his fortress in Tokyo, surrounded by bodyguards, protected by state-of-the-art surveilliance technology, he is so afraid of contact with people, that he doesn't even have an e-mail. His thought process is preoccupied with his enemies and his personal safety. The problem is that people like that generally don't cope very good with aging. As his body grows old, he has to accept his death and let go of the Ego. He has to accept the fact the his body will become a rotting corpse and pile of dust. But for the person like that, who dedicated his life to strengthening his personal Ego, letting go of it is almost impossible. He will deeply resist the aging process, instead fo accepting it, and it will be very painful for him to watch his body age and dissipate. His believe in reincarnation is not going to help, because he is not stupid and knows that the chance that he will be born into billionaire's family is pretty slim. So, whatever fate awaits him is probably going to be less comfortable.