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Oh well, I found another source, here:

[www.pointofinquiry.org]

Whoa...he's hawt :D

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TaitenAndProud
It's talking out of both sides of their mouth.

It's like it's part of the practice or something.

I was just reminded...the whole "chant for whatever you want" was most DEFINITELY presented as one of the "perks" of this practice. And no, it was never presented in a "Maybe you'll get it, maybe you won't" kind of context.

I remember Theresa...H-something - her husband was Eric H-something, who was, like, a Study Dept big cheese or something, and she was, like, vice national women's division leader under that Sara Palin look-alike Matilda Buck - HELP ME OUT HITCH!!

So anyhow, Theresa attended one of my district's discussion meetings. And she was telling us that, when she got her gohonzon, her sponsor said to make a list of what she wanted to see happen in her life over the next 90 days. Well, Theresa got out a yellow legal pad, and filled one page front and back with what she wanted. She told her sponsor that, if she didn't get even ONE thing on her list, she was going to return her gohonzon. Well, she said, she started checking off the items as they happened. Check check check. On day 90, there was only ONE item left unaccomplished - for her husband to finish his dissertation. He'd been dragging his feet on it forever. So she called up her sponsor and said, "Come get it." As soon as she put the phone down, it rang again. It was her husband. He said, "Guess what I just turned in." Yep - his dissertation. So when her sponsor showed up, Theresa said, "Never mind - I've decided to keep it."

It is with no small feeling of betrayal that many of us realize that the "chant for anything you want" is a lie, something to hook into our greed and need in order to get us into the cult. And our betrayal is accompanied by shame and embarrassment, that we were so shallow, so grasping, that we'd go along with so much just because we saw it as a way to get what we wanted.

^ It was "Hauber." Theresa and Eric Hauber.

Long Post Alert, but I hope worthwhile . . . .

$oka Gakkai International ($GI) and $cientology not as far apart as many would probably like to think at first glance:

Here, [www.forum.exscn.net] , a former $cientology AND $GI member discusses the stiking similarities.

EXCERPT -

"I heard about scientology in 2008 during Chanology but at the time was still an SGI member in good standing. As i dove more deeply into scientology's abuses and after meeting a few exes (most notably Tommy and Jennifer Gorman) I really began to have doubts about the SGI. It began around something called "may contributions." Every member is expected to tithe in May more extravagantly than at other times of the year. This is like getting hit up for IAS donations during a pledge period. All discussion groups are directed to guide their discussions to the benefits gained from donation. So usually stories go something like "I gave my last $200 and chanted extra hard and gained such karma that 6 weeks later I finally landed a $100k a year job and got a $20k signing bonus. So my donation came back hundred-fold!" Then there's the phone calls every day from group/district/area/region leaders asking if you've given yet.

More similarities are BOOKS. whole overpriced cult run bookstores full of authorized Buddhist literature of all kinds. I have shelves of the stuff.

Then you are expected to attend activities in your area at people's homes and at the culture center. If you're not seen at these things they pressure you for a while. These activities are seen as "cultural" in nature and fulfill one of the orgs stated goals the "advancement of culture"
chanting is done twice a day in front of an altar in every buddhist home. These can be relatively cheap (a few hundred dollars) to very extravagant I know of one over $100k in a small 2 br apartment. no kidding. takes up a whole room. Installed within these altars are "sacred" scrolls called a gohonzon that must be obtained from the leadership during special ceremonies. I still have mine. members are expected to chant for some length of time in 2 daily rituals called Gongyo (i still have it memorized -32 pages of classical japanese) All this ads up to a lot of time spent solely among other Buddhists and it gets insular, like Scn.

There is a charismatic leader named Daisaku Ikeda (claims to hold a word record for honorary degrees from Universities >120 the last time i heard) People call him "sensei" and display crazy adoration for him. People claim for the Buddhism to really work you need to "develop a personal relationship" with sensei. I've never had it explained to my satisfaction how one does this without meeting him. I'm told it's a matter of faith."

END EXCERPT.

More on the (current) topic of MYSTICAL-MAGICAL MANIPULATION:

[www.youtube.com] Excellent advice from someone who has been there ($cientology).

If you apply what she is saying in a general way to $GI, you basically have the same story:
(My own comments bolded in parentheses.)

"Pictures of LRH everywhere." (Ikeda photos everywhere.)

"The guy called and said he was going to come pick me up - AND HE DID!" (Street shakubuku, being taken to a zadankai "discussion" meeting.)

"The guy was very robotic, but I thought, . . . . he can't be all bad . . . " (Gakkai automaton-Ikeda-bot behavioral patterns on display with hardcore brainwashed Gakkai Cult Org. members.)

"I started asking question, everything that I was concerned about, was excellently brushed off and handled." (Pressure to join, dismissing one's first instincts, playing down the red flags. I've saw this done all the time during "Shakubuku" campaigns when the hard sell pressure tactics were really turned up in desperation to get the numbers.)

"We're here for a higher purpose. Let's go meet the "auditors"." (Kosen-Rufu, World Peace, let's go meet and talk to the "leader" / "leaders".)

"I went to talk to the "auditors", I didn't know a thing about what they were talking about, . . . . but it was an excellent example of them CUTTING OFF MY CRITICAL THINKING!" (Perfect summation of the shakubuku, zadankai, leader guidance sequences in the Gakkai Cult Org.).

"It's a con job! They build in these traps, it's very insidious, this MYSTICAL MANIPULATION, to shut off your critical thinking." (Another perfect summation of the $GI cult.)

"They've got this "Higher Purpose", that is "directly perceived from some imminent law of social development" and "that they are the agents chosen to carry out the mystical imperative, the pursuit of which must supersede all conditions of decency and imminent human welfare." (Cousin-Rufus anyone? "Mystical Law?" Devotion to The Dear Leader Ikeda, Master-Slave / Mentor-Disciple" relationship obsession. Devotion to The Cult Org.'s and your own mission --> World Peace, Human Revolution. etc.)

Any bells ringing yet?

"The only solution you have to not getting sucked into a cult, is to LEARN "What is a Cult?"" (Absolutely agreed.)

("Cults In Our Midst", btw, by Singer, which is referenced in the above video discussion, is an excellent and highly recommended resource. Singer's sections on "Rescuing The Children" and "Pseudo-personality" development by cult members are right on the mark. Take it from me, I know first-hand on the former and you need not look any further than the $GI Automaton-Ikeda-bot video clips that I mentioned and shared just a few pages back, for evidence on the latter topic.)

****

Some more from others who have experienced both ($GI & $cientology):

"You mentioned that all cults have essentially the same workings and do nearly the same mind-f*ck on their members. I can vouch for this in my own encounters with various cults. Fortunately, Scientology was not one of those that I encountered during the time that I was vulnerable to cults. It is precisely from my experience with groups like Soka Gakkai, a couple of other wierd sects of Buddhism, ..."

"I got sucked into the Soka Gakkai sect of Buddhism while I was living in Japan and still in the Army. Soka Gakkai is not as malignant as Co$, but very pushy and very money/attendance oriented. I shelled out a hundred bucks for a small, desktop shrine, prayer beads, and a book of "daimoku," or sutras to chant. After some time, and becoming increasingly dissatisfied with Soka Gakkai, I asked them to come pick up the shrine. They said they would and didn't. I asked them three more times over the space of two months and they still didn't come and get it. Finally, I closed it up and hauled it out to the dumpster. I felt guilty, but at the same time, relieved. They tried several manipulation tactics to keep me in their church, but after I rebuffed them each time, they left me alone. They were a scary bunch of people and it will be interesting to see how that sect ends up, as time goes by."

" ... you echo a lot of my own sentiments when I was in my early twenties. I was passionate, idealistic, wanted to help the world, wanted enlightenment, was fed up with Christianity and mainstream religion, was lonely, away from home, family, and my own country, doing dangerous work, and was faced daily with my own mortality. I was lured into Soka Gakkai and got out and away from those people. I was approached by many other charismatic, prosyletizing cults/religions."

"You mean Nichiren Shoshu--now called Soka Gakkai of America here. They were my knee jerk cult when I was a very young and naive woman, when they were still Nichiren Shoshu of America. I figured out they were a cult, albeit (then) a relatively harmless one whose leaders did want the best for their members, after reading Margaret Singer's excellent article on cult spotting in Psychology Today, so already not inclined to do what some yahoo told me to just because it was "guidance", I gave back my gohonzon, or "Great object of worship", a copy of the scroll inscribed by Nichiren Daishonin, the monk the religion was founded after that the cult said was the "True Buddha" who did have some minor miracles under his belt, and was warned by one of the sweet Japanese ladies who had originally taught me that I could never get it back again, to which I replied "That's fine"."

****

"International Association of $cientologists" [www.youtube.com] OR [www.youtube.com] / [www.youtube.com] $GI (Rappers for Cousin-Rufus).

The similarities *are* there, you just have to look very carefully and then they start to literally jump out at you, screaming to be noticed.

The meat and potatoes of cults are the doublespeak and hypocrisy. Nothing could be further from the true spirit and nature of "Science" than "$cientology" and nothing could be further from real "Buddhism" than the $oka Gakkai International.

Educate, inform, learn and most of all, THINK for yourself. Cults want you to believe that you *are*, but, again, it's exactly the opposite (doublespeak and hypocrisy), because you aren't, they (the CULT) are doing the "thinking" for you.



- Hitch

Taiten, I have been thinking, in regards to chanting to have all desires met and prayers answered, that a fundamental, if you will, concept that had been hit upon at times during my practice, but never as much as wish fulfillment, is: To be happy no matter what your circumstances in life. To reach unshakable/breakable happiness. To not be fazed by yuck-stuck karma and painful events. This was always overshadowed by the "WINNING! NO MATTER WHAT, YOU EITHER WIN OR LOSE!" format. (I mean here by overcoming all obstacles and bad karma and having situations always turn out favorably and yes, that includes chanting for cars and toys and all that).

Religion is here for that reason: Human beings want at their core to be happy. The SGI throws out two different messages. One, you must WIN at all times and you can change EVERYTHING. And two, the smaller message of reaching enlightenment, or true happiness. Personally, I like the smaller one. It speaks to people just being happy and satisfied in their core about life, their lives. It does not depend on STUFF, and perfect circumstances. The SGI gloms onto the first message, because that is the more immediate lure. And the SGI once again, does not have the sole license on this, either.

Hitch, IMO, Scientology is even scarier that the SGI. And they revere LRH as rabidly as DI. Scientology==that's some scary stuff right there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2013 04:03AM by Shavoy.

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The SGI throws out two different messages. One, you must WIN at all times and you can change EVERYTHING. And two, the smaller message of reaching enlightenment, or true happiness. Personally, I like the smaller one. It speaks to people just being happy and satisfied in their core about life, their lives. It does not depend on STUFF, and perfect circumstances. The SGI gloms onto the first message, because that is the more immediate lure. And the SGI once again, does not have the sole license on this, either. - Shavoy

Shavoy, as you can easily see, those two messages are entirely contradictory. The first is all about being a slave to your attachments and delusions; the second is about not being attached nor deluded!

I have seen SGI leaders attempt to address this dichotomy and somehow harmonize the two. They typically cite the "earthly desires are enlightenment" tenet. They aren't, in fact. Earthly desires are NOT enlightenment! In fact, they're what will keep you, "no matter what", from attaining enlightenment in the first place! This is an example of how Nichiren Buddhism is absolutely at odds with the Buddhism of Shakyamuni, however much Nichiren Buddhism gives lip service to the Four Noble Truths.

So anyhow, back to the apologetics. I once heard a leader, a high-up leader, though I don't remember which one, state that when you physically chant NMRK, you are "enlightened" for the time that you're chanting it. Well, if THAT's the case, then enlightenment is certainly nothing special! In fact, I can state for a fact that "enlightenment" as described that way feels like nothing different from normal life! And then, presumably, you go right out of that "life state" the moment you stop chanting. As such, "enlightenment" is worthless.

The other way, which I've heard MORE leaders explain, to bring these together is that, whenever you're chanting, you're moving inexorably toward enlightenment, no matter how base and greedy whatever you're chanting for is. The only thing that matters is that people are motivated to chant, because the end result of that process is that they will attain enlightenment. Whatever THAT is. So you'll basically become enlightened in spite of yourself, essentially. I always found this unsatisfying :/ What it's saying is that "Chant for whatever you want" is just a trick to get people to chant. They shouldn't expect to get anything out of it except eventual "enlightenment." Yippee.

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TaitenAndProud

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The SGI throws out two different messages. One, you must WIN at all times and you can change EVERYTHING. And two, the smaller message of reaching enlightenment, or true happiness. Personally, I like the smaller one. It speaks to people just being happy and satisfied in their core about life, their lives. It does not depend on STUFF, and perfect circumstances. The SGI gloms onto the first message, because that is the more immediate lure. And the SGI once again, does not have the sole license on this, either. - Shavoy

Shavoy, as you can easily see, those two messages are entirely contradictory. The first is all about being a slave to your attachments and delusions; the second is about not being attached nor deluded!

I have seen SGI leaders attempt to address this dichotomy and somehow harmonize the two. They typically cite the "earthly desires are enlightenment" tenet. They aren't, in fact. Earthly desires are NOT enlightenment! In fact, they're what will keep you, "no matter what", from attaining enlightenment in the first place! This is an example of how Nichiren Buddhism is absolutely at odds with the Buddhism of Shakyamuni, however much Nichiren Buddhism gives lip service to the Four Noble Truths.

So anyhow, back to the apologetics. I once heard a leader, a high-up leader, though I don't remember which one, state that when you physically chant NMRK, you are "enlightened" for the time that you're chanting it. Well, if THAT's the case, then enlightenment is certainly nothing special! In fact, I can state for a fact that "enlightenment" as described that way feels like nothing different from normal life! And then, presumably, you go right out of that "life state" the moment you stop chanting. As such, "enlightenment" is worthless.

The other way, which I've heard MORE leaders explain, to bring these together is that, whenever you're chanting, you're moving inexorably toward enlightenment, no matter how base and greedy whatever you're chanting for is. The only thing that matters is that people are motivated to chant, because the end result of that process is that they will attain enlightenment. Whatever THAT is. So you'll basically become enlightened in spite of yourself, essentially. I always found this unsatisfying :/ What it's saying is that "Chant for whatever you want" is just a trick to get people to chant. They shouldn't expect to get anything out of it except eventual "enlightenment." Yippee.

But all that means is you're just not "getting it"!

*eyeroll*

Can you spell "bait and switch"? I knew you could :D

Two (very) long posts alert. One, of two:

An interesting thesis, from 2007, on the $GI, specifically "Italy", cult movement (but it does also discuss the cult motherland and U.S.A. movements as critical background).

Some (for me) really accurate observation excerpts (My own thoughts / comments, bolded.):

****

"The Translation and Domestication of an Oriental Religion into a Western Catholic Country: The Case of Soka Gakkai in Italy." - by Manuela Foiera (Ph.D. Thesis, University of Warwick)

"In his seminal work "Religion in the Modern World: from Cathedrals to Cults Steve Bruce (1996) provides a best summary of the process by which our concept of religion has been transformed and fragmented as modernity developed. . . . . to contemporary new forms of religious organisations, each of them competing to affirm their uniquely legitimate view of the truth. . . . . the sovereign consumers of the modern world "pick and mix" their own religions."

"A movement can "reposition" itself in its adaptive process to different cultures. This is precisely the case of Soka Gakkai."

" . . . . Soka Gakkai's movement began travelling abroad in the 1960's. . . . . During the 1960's, the movement attracted a large number of Caucasian Americans. . . . . the movement sought self-consciously to accommodate to American society and "to ingratiate itself with Americans". Strategies of accommodation included the use of the American flag, prominently displayed in the movement's buildings, or the translation into English of basic Japanese concepts, in order to convey the impression that Soka Gakkai's aims and values were in conformity with those values and traditions predominant in the host society."

"From a sociological point of view, the New Religious Movements are the answer to the crisis that invested Japanese society in four distinctive moments, namely the beginning of the nineteenth century; the general period surrounding the Meiji Restoration (1868); the beginning of the twentieth century; the period following World War II."

"In general, Japanese new religions have developed along two distinct lines, both of which revolve around the millenarian thought . . . . "the different ways in which people respond to disruptive social changes and interpret and expain various personal limitation and human and natural calamities, including earthquakes, defeat in war and great poverty"."

"From Japanese millenarianism stemmed two lines of NRMs (New Religion Movements), which can be defined, . . . . as "world denying" and "world affirming"."

"From its early roots in Japanese millenarianism, Nichiren's BUddhism develops a new identity through the work of three . . . . figures, Makiguchi, Toda, and Ikeda."

(An in-depth discussion of the Gakkai Cult Org.'s history follows, which those who are not deeply familiar with, may find interesting.)

(Jumping straight to the Ikeda portion . . . . )

". . . the effective value of Soka Gakkai's peace activities is unclear. The obvious beneficiaries of these encounters are Ikeda himself and Soka Gakkai. Both seek public respect and acceptance, and have been subject to criticism for decades. Public visibility is sometimes obtained through a faux pas. For example, unpublished in Soka Gakkai's official document but visible in a number of websites, are photos of Ikeda in the act of conferring "humaninarian awards" to a number of controversial figures such as former Romanian President Nicolae Ceausescu and Panama dictator Manuel Noriega."

"The figure of Daisaku Ikeda is not easy to define. He is "one of the more controversial figures in Japan's modern history, the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde of contemporary Japanese society"."

(I have long maintained that the Gakkai Cult Org. and its membership, especially leadership, emulate everything from the top, this "Jekyll-Hyde" aspect. It is definitely a real entity within the Gakkai Cult Org..)

"The Soka Gakkai media portray Ikeda as saintly hero, a "crusader for world peace" and a "hope for suffering humanity." Ikeda is often paralleled to great figures of the past, as in the brochures for the photographic exhibit "A Legacy of Building Peace:, where Ikeda is portrayed together with Gandhi and Martin Luther King." Ikeda himself seems to encourage these parallelisms."

(An interesting transcript of Ikeda's remarks, taken from a Japan "leaders meeting" follow. Consult article for an excellent example of gakkai cult org. re-crafting history and thought reform propaganda in action.)

(A discussion of the priesthood battle follows. Again, worthwhile and recommended reading. Many of us here are well familiar with it all, but there are still some interesting tidbits to be found.)

"In the wake of the excommunication, the Soka Gakkai leadership retaliated by circulating a series of pamphlets about the corruption of the priesthood, accusing some of them of having a lucrative side business in the pornographic movie industry."

" . . . in 1999 Soka Gakkai International re-issued a one-volume collection of 172 gosho, entitled The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin. These translation were largely revised, with intent of rendering the work more readable. Soka Gakkai detractors, however, claim that the revision had been undertaken to purge the gosho of all references to the Nichiren Shoshu."

" . . . the struggle . . . a "religous civil war" based on financial reasons . . ."

(Excerpted and included in full in the appendix, is Ikeda's infamous psychopathological poem "The Victorious Future of Mentor and Disciple." This poem, which is suppressed by the gakkai cult org. now, is essential reading.)

"After 1991, when all 11 million Soka Gakkai members were excommunicated, two entirely different gongyo books were printed. The Soka Gakkai version, featuring the SGI's symbol of worldwide propagation on the cover, reshaped the prayers around Kosen Rufu and Soka Gakkai's role in fulfilling it. In 1991 the prayer was changed and reduced . . . . removing text . . . erasing references to the teachings of its rival sect Nichiren Shoshu. It also removed from the prayer every mention to the cardinal elements of Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism and to the core of Nichiren doctrine."

"Soka Gakkai seems to be more and more determined to establish its own form of Buddhism, in which Nichiren Daishonin's teachings play a secondary role. In fact, SGI has replaced the traditional reading of Nichiren Daishonin's writings with "lectures on the gosho", Daisaku Ikeda's interpretation of Nichiren's texts. These lectures are published monthly in SGI's magazines and constitute the core reading for members during SGI study meetings."

(Buddhism or "Ikedaism"? The above is especially accurate.)

". . . . the ever-increasing centrality of President Ikeda. The tendency towards the sacralisation of its President is evident today (2000), with the inclusion of his name in the gongyo prayers. The importance of the Lotus Sutra has also been downplayed in Soka Gakkai's practices, with the decision . . . . to abolish the Juryo chapter from the daily liturgy of gongyo."

(Again, a devastatingly accurate point and further evidence as to the cult org.'s modus operandi and constantly evolving revisionism to suit its changing needs.)

" . . . . Soka Gakkai has always been a strict hierarchical organisation, with clear chain of command. Members belong to a stratified system of levels of activity and the leaders of all but the lowest levels are appointed from above. A worldwide bureaucracy has been established, focussed on the headquarters in Japan, and on the powerful charismatic authorityh of Daisaku Ikeda."

(A fascinating focus on the Gakkai Cult Org. in Italy follows.)

"The organisational design of the local branches of the International Soka Gakkai, as those branches exist on a worldwide basis, reflects the blueprint of the original Japanese parent structure. . . . . a vertical line . . . . that approximates the "parent-child" relationship characterising so much of social interaction in Japan. . . . . this vertical interaction, resting on the transmission of faith, is constantly stressed . . . "

"A horizontal line within this structure also exists, in keeping with the time-hounored Japanese tradition of organising activiites into sex-seregated groups. Normally, from the age of 35 onwards, members belong to either the men's or the women's division. Before reaching that age, they are affiliated to sex-segregated youth divisions: young men, young women, male students, female students, girls an boys, etc. There are also professional division for educators, artists, medical doctors, lawyers, managers, and others . . . . for each division, a leader and a vice leader are appointed. The manner in which these divisions have adapted to conditions outside of Japan has varied according to the specific countries in which they have taken root."

(The social interaction rituals are discussed in detail, e.g., zadankai.)

"Other meetings are scheduled on monthly bases for each peer-division. At such meetings, Soka Gakkai's leaders rport to their senior on their various activities. At the same time, senior leaders from higher ranks give instruction on future activities to be performed in accordance with the national guidelines. Following the pyramidal structure, . . . . the area reports directly to the General Director."

"More meetings and training courses are scheduled for staff members. Because of the association is based on volunteerism, members are encouraged to donate their time and their talents for a variety of purposes. Staff groups bear very evocative names . . . . . (cleaning the cultural centres, food catering, various behind-the-scenes activities, etc.)"

"Contributions do not involve a statutory obligation: "one has (or should have) at heart the spirit of offering for the purpose of Kosen Rufu. It should not be considered a burdensome obligation, but rather a matter of great pride." . . . . Thus, Soka Gakkai's members are encouraged to think of their financial contribution as a "right-duty" towards their organisation."

"Attendance at meetings is recorded . . . and participants are registered to their status of "guest", "beginner" and "member". . . . . For this reason, each Soka Gakkai leader must have exact knowledge of who their members are in order to keep in mind "all the persons whom we don't see often, all those who only attend meetings now and then, all those who haven't participated in a long while, as well as all those who have distanced themselves from the practice and whome we may never have know." Also, a good (leader) mush be aware of the fluctuations in attendance at meetings, of the progress of the zaimu ($$$) and of the number of member's subscriptions to SG's publications."

"Daisaku Ikeda . . . . declares . . . . . (organisational) statistics is "a noble battle for kosen-rufu . . . . "

"Italian Soka Gakkai has, in time, managed to rewrite some of its religious tenets, modelling itself on the blueprint of the Catholic tradition, and it might be possible to suggest that the movement today owes is success precisely to the introduction of the peculiar elements that constitutes an Italian religious background."

"Italy SG's adaptive strategy evolved along the lines of a total Orientalisation of the Buddhism. The preservation of Japanese references was perceived as fundamental to distance its religious character from the notionof "religion" already embedded in the native sensus communis. A Japanese leadership, a Japanese vocabulary, and a Japanese set of rituals - such as the custom of removing one's shoes before entereing the gathering place and kneeling on the floor during worship - . . . . "

(Continued below . . . .)