Kasumi,

Usually when people first step onto this board, they offer a bit of themselves and explain why they have decided to participate in this forum thread.

You on the other hand, have not explained or given anything, yet you expect to take here. This aggressive entrance, first asking for sensitive information and then expecting us to rally around your questions, appears to be a sign of
attempting at control within this thread.

I would suggest reframing your entrance and behavior on this thread.

Not to label Kasumi with assumptions, I am sure that sooner or later, SGI cult goons and apologists will begin to attack the threads, especially attempt to find out who we are.

Ghandi stated:


First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win


We've been ignored up to now, but I don't expect this to last.


Nothing we should be afraid of, as the moderator said, just be careful about what information you share on this thread and besides, in the end, I don't think they would have much luck here. They would get burnt to a crisp.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2012 05:35AM by Upgrayed.

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goodgirl
Hi to All,

This is my first time posting. I have been reading these post for awhile and i have to say thanks for all the insight. I was introduced to the practice by a friend or looking back someone who i thought was a friend. I saw how things were changing in his life and i thought id give sgi a try... when i started practing in 06' i was looking for a job and a relationship. things that the sgi said was easily obtainable.

Welcome goodgirl. It's very easy for cults to scoop people up when they are at their most vulnerable, as we all are at different points in our lives. You definitely don't need the gakkai cult to achieve any of those things in life, but they will definitely attempt to hijack any successes in your life and take credit for everything. It's BS and its brainwashing to get you dependent on the so-called "practice." If you succeed, it's because of them; if you don't, it's because of your lack of devotion to cult org.. It's a no win situation, either way. It's also the beginning of the psychological manipulation.

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goodgirl
I became a district leader in 3 months and i joined byakuren in 3 MONTHS of practice i was so new... there's no way i should have been given such resposibility. I was even about to be appointed byakuren leader but things happened in my life that prevented me from taking the resposibility. Thank God. I was kind of snatched out of the practice. things started going so bad on the home front and i just couldnt chant.. i felt like there was an elephant on my back in the mornings and basicully when i was alone and just couldnt do it. i went to my leaders again and of coarse just dumb looks and no response..

It's common to quickly put sincere, new, green members into "leadership" positions. It's a way of immersing you into the cult environment and demanding more and more of your time. It's also the first step to making you into an uncritical thinking gakkai automaton. Do well, you get promoted and deeper immersion. Do "ok" and it's smooth sailing until the next campaign. Screw it up and get the guilt trips, home visited and more forced manipulation. It doesn't matter how well you do or not, it all just means more manipulation opportunities. All gakkai "leaders", from my experience, are not the sharpest crayons in the box and the "deer in the headlights" look (followed by gosho thumping, dear leader cult-speak guidance, or a quick lame change of the subject) is a common response from the cult zombie "elite."

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goodgirl
Dont get me wrong the people where of coarse very nice sincere people but i got a little ticked off when if i wasnt available to do things for the sgi they would scream at me.. DO IT FOR THE SGI... I started a group for the youth in the sgi.... little did i know that there wouldnt be that muchh understanding if i couldnt keep up... I only started it because i was over zealous... and young and dumb.... i should have never taken on that resposibility.. but i did.. i hear its still growing strong... so i guess i made tremendous cause..

Ahhh, yes, that's the ol' nsa / $oka cult I remember! The younger, more naive and easily manipulatable you are, the more they will do it, too. Don't contribute to tenderizing more brain meat in the "YOUTH!" for the cult org.. All they want is more bodies. Whether you stay or not, is of ultimately no concern to them. You cultivate a dozen people for them and if they manage to extract even a single person from that group to become another brainwashed automaton, then that's all that matters. Repeat the cycle all over again, with the new meat. What happens to you in the long run is of no concern to them, but if you stay or come back, then it's just icing on the cake for the cult org. (more numbers, more $$$, more subscriptions, more free labor, etc.).

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goodgirl
Recently ive been thinking about chanting. not with the sgi but i dont know if thats because ive been devoid of it for so long and those cult mind thoughts are seeping back into my head... Ive been going to church but the message has been a little scathy. there is so much i want to accomplish in my life im in my early 30's and i think that the idea of doing something tangible to receive results is starting to way heavy or do you think thats just the programming of the cult... that no dream impossible speak?

You can accomplish anything with or without the cult. It's completely non-sequitur. Any attempts to connect the two are confirmation bias, magical thinking and psychological dependence manipulation.

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goodgirl
I feel like im falling into a scared season. scared to chant scared not to chant i do constantly pray and thats been helping and reading about how the sgi is a cult... just so i remeber and not get suckered back.. a few months ago a ywd called me went for lunch.. she didnt talk about sgi at all really.. i was so nervous. but i havent heard from her in a while i wonder if she was just spying.

No gakkai cult "leader" ever contacts you without an agenda. Period. Sooner or later, it will become apparent. They're sizing you up and deciding how to best deal with you - the next step. In short, yep, it's just spying, before they try to lure you back based on some of the "innocent" non-gakkai talk that you relay to them during your lunch meet-ups. Whatever you share with your "leader", will be shared with their "leader" (and so on), until somebody tells the automaton what algorithm to run to try to get you back.

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goodgirl
anywho thanks for letting me vent please any replies would be greatly appreciated....
question: do you think me pondering chanting is the result of brainwashing by the sgi?
Note- things are ok in my life... there are still things i want to accomplish and sometimes i revert back to thinking that chanting can somehow help in the process

thanks please respond.

The magical chanting is the carrot on the yellow brick road that leads to the gakkai cult Land of Ikeda Oz and all of the brain candy rewards that come with it. Eat the candy though and it has no nutritional value. It will eventually leave you feeling sick and regretting the fact that you did. If you return to the cult org., I can tell you exactly what is waiting: more manipulation, more guilt and more bizarre dysfunctional behavior if you don't become a model cult automaton.

Put distance between yourself and all contact with the cult. Stop the chant and shake the cult cobwebs out of your brain to be able to start thinking clearly again. Eventually, you'll be glad you did (and so will any of your loved ones, now and in the future).

Upgrayed and Rothaus thanks for your responses to my post. I definetly see how leaving the sgi can leave withdrawl symptoms... yes i put a lot of time and energy into sgi. I had a job early on in my practice and i would flat out refuse to work saturday's because of sgi activities. no wonder i lost the job soon after. It feels good to have free time again thats for sure. I think im going to take my time in the whole chanting thing. I have to admit i think there's a little bit of superstition going on in my thinking and i know that definetely aint the way. for right now im going to give myself a chance. I gave SGI a chance, a wholehearted chance and that didnt work out. gonna try and think positive and be patient as to what life has in store. Thanks again

And btw something does seem off about kasumi... sgi spy???? ... i hope not though... no disrespect

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rattyboy
NSA/SGI leaders would mention that Sensei has great hope for the U.S. and its members as being the leaders in kosen rufu. The creative types are kept busy chasing the carrot knowing that celebrity worship is huge in the U.S. and the "behind the scenes" members who probably actually work harder, and this is profoundly noted in pronounced whispery stereotypically 'Asian' tones, well they would receive inconspicuous benefit down the line. I'm not sure how "Treasure Tower" is treated in other Nichiren teachings but it sounds like a Disney ride for pre-schoolers or a scratch ticket in the context of SGI usage.

HAHA! I love it! So true, rattyboy, so true!

I can relay an interesting observation that struck me as odd, even as a deeply brainwashed (desperately trying to believe) "YOUTH!" On the few occasions that I've been in close proximity to the dear leader (multiple times during tozan and a couple of times in the U.S.), I never once felt any genuine warmth from his actual presence. In fact, it's just the opposite in real life: I felt a strange coldness, arrogance, sense of privilege, and most of all, those in the closest orbits surrounding and serving him, were always rushing, yet careful as if stepping on eggshells and I'd even go so far as to say that I could smell a whiff of "fear" wafting in the air around him.

These impressions never left me and were just another drop in the skeptical bucket that was steadily filling up in my brain at the time. It all makes complete sense now, but it was weird at the time (the expectations and the hype didn't at all live up to the reality, at least with me). He struck me not as a religious leader, but as a slick mafia-don. To those on the inside, he is (a "religious" boss). To those on the outside, he's just a con-man.

hitch thanks for all the insight. thanks for breaking it down ... i think about the idea of giving all success and credit to sgi and all failures to yourself.. that is really low when you think about it.. i remember about a year ago a ywd and 2 wd came to home visit me. the ywd was very interested if i still had my job, which i do, and she seemed ticked off cause i had a house... we are facebook friends and she posted that she must get a two bedroom apartment because she practiced sgi buddhism.. she posted that like the day after my visit.. I still have a lot of sgi fb friends i try not to squirm everytime i see a president ikeda quote. I had to stop someone from email messaging me president ikeda quotes and he seemed ticked off.

Thanks for the words of confidence... something i definetly need more of. yes i can do anything i want to do and no i dont need anything but me to accomplish them.. trying to sweat off the magical thinking.

Its sad to think that the ywd who i had lucnch with would just want to meet with me to spy. come to think of it i hadnt heard from her for a while and her call was quite unexpected. i should call her to f**k with her... but i wont ..Its so crazy to think that i was actually in a cult... and boy oh boy are they manipulative but thats on her if she discussed my personal business.. i kind of dont think she would. at least im hoping.

For awhile in 2011 i tried to go back... thinking its not really a cult.. everyone was so happy to see me at least some where... like i said i was heavily into the org.... i was very much into youth activities and they wanted me to get back into what they are now calling the "Rock the Era" activities once i found out that there activities where based around the book My Dear Friends in America i physically wnated to throw up. I mean again what does that have to do with Buddhism. I knew then i had outgrown sgi and i couldnt fit back in. i knew too much.. but then there's that nagging feeeling you dont want to think it was all in vain. maybe the chantings good and pure and thats what ive been thinking lately just so i dont feel too stupid.. you know...

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kasumi
Is there anyone on this forum who has SGI/Nichiren Shoshu items that they would like to part with? [such as old gongyo books, Gohonzon etc]
If so, please pm me or post your info here.

Also, the issues with SGI raised here seem to center on its organization and operation, including its leadership.

Two questions:

1. Aside from SGI, did anyone have issues with the actual practice of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism itself [gongyo, daimoku, study, propogation]?
To discuss SGI, it is necessary to discuss the religion that SGI practices - namely Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism.

2. Has anyone left SGI to practice in another Nichiren group [such as Nichiren Shoshu or Shoshinkai] and how was your experience there?
Since this is a forum about cults, any sect would be presumably fair game in relation to Buddhism [although it is unclear here if people think that Buddhism itself is a cult]

kasumi

If you want to discuss any Buddhist cult other than SGI, this is not the appropriate thread. Either start your own or see if there is already one on this forum about your group of interest. Besides, we are not "discussing" SGI, we are discussing being former members of SGI and its predecessor organization.

If you lurked for a while before posting, you would see that some former members had problems with the practice or aspects of the practice, and some didn't, with the exception that almost everyone rejected Ikeda worship disguised as mentor-disciple.

You are not an SGI apologist, are you? Troll? If so, I'll be back to the board after you flounce. If it isn't clear, SGI is a cult.

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Hitch
I never once felt any genuine warmth from his actual presence. In fact, it's just the opposite in real life: I felt a strange coldness, arrogance, sense of privilege, and most of all, those in the closest orbits surrounding and serving him, were always rushing, yet careful as if stepping on eggshells and I'd even go so far as to say that I could smell a whiff of "fear" wafting in the air around him.

Geesh! Thanks a lot Hitch, you reawakened a long forgotten memory from my ?Soka han? days.

I was one of twenty limo drivers during a movement (rented black lincoln town cars) and ended up driving a couple VP's around and one time briefly HizMajezzy. Spot on - the VP's struck me as little guys trying to be big guys (speaking the language and hearing their conversations was an eye ... er... ear opening experience as their chatter sounded very insecure overall, not what you'd expect from people "deeply grounded" in faith.)

And I do agree with you about the distance and the coldness. Nothing warm at all from any of them. On the flip side of things though, the NST priests I drove around during that same movement seemed overall pretty warm. Go figure...

Wakatta1

Welcome Goodgirl! Hitch was born into the org and his insight is invaluable, at least I have found it to be so.

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Rothaus
Hi Goodgirl,

welcome here! As Upgrayed has already mentioned its important to detox … take your time to do so! Even ministers of Nichiren Shu who in recent years are confronted with ex-SGIists underline this. The starting point for me to leave SGI was when I did research on Buddhist related issues for a thesis I wrote during my time at university. I did not receive much help from within SGI. Today I know they could not have helped me anyway – as this was not Buddhism. I am not an official member of any faith these days, but if you want to chant do it. But if you chant due some sort of guilt or because you think some “bad” things may happen if you don't, then you should refrain from doing so as you are still in SGI-mode. You are a grown up girl and if you feel that you still want to strive for spiritual answers that you may have inside then do so. A few posts back I cited the “Klama Sutta”. In the end what it says is to listen to your gut feeling, if you have reservations, if you feel that there is “something foul in the state of Denmark” then listen to that voice. A spiritual path is right if it makes you grow as who you are, when it is based on humanism and agrees to altruistic ideas. If a faith forces you to strip off what you and who you are in order to fit into a set mould then ignore it. And most of all … who says that your spiritual side has to have adhere to an organised form??? The people that I met in my life and who took their faith serious were those who used their faith to gain strength, but not those who used their faith to discriminate others. I do have met people of faith and the ones that left a mark were those who due to their faith realised and became aware of what they are … human and not super humans.

Good words, Rothaus!

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Goodgirl
Its sad to think that the ywd who i had lucnch with would just want to meet with me to spy. come to think of it i hadnt heard from her for a while and her call was quite unexpected. i should call her to f**k with her... but i wont ..Its so crazy to think that i was actually in a cult... and boy oh boy are they manipulative but thats on her if she discussed my personal business.. i kind of dont think she would. at least im hoping.

Welcome to our little collection of recoverees Goodgirl!

Knowing how things go with the WD and at times with the YWD, there is a lot of gossip that happens within districts and chapters (aw heck, all over). She may just be trying to get the up-to-date skinny on someone she can gain a few moments of attention over. I would definately not give her anything if I were you, for a multitude of reasons, the biggest being that if you are indeed breaking away, you are better with cold turkey. Eventually they will leave you alone and focus on other people, or else just get reabsorbed in another movement and completely forget about you. In fact, you might take a page from their book and just do a clean sweep with all of the things that might tend to pull you back and just move in a direction of your own choosing without looking back. Certainly, don't entertain any regrets, you are one of the lucky ones that made it to a lifeboat.

Wakatta1