Thanks Hitch...glad someone got my message. Its hard when your parents are still practicing and they have to keep others thinking you are still practicing to save face. On another note, I have an attachment I can email you if you'reinterested in - a thesis I partcipated in last year. Its about SGA's or what's known in the cult world as Second Generation Adults (born into the cult). Went to a workshop sponsored by ICSA a few years ago and was recruited for a few papers as a subject. Let me know if you're interested. I'll ask my husband how to have it posted here on this site if thats possible.

Hi evergreen, if you can somehow post it here or somewhere else, I'd love to see it. As a second generation "misfortune baby", I'm sure we have walked a very similar path. I've had a misguided gakkai parent who would always, sometimes unbeknownst to me, contact "local" members whenever I moved to a new area. I've gotten cold calls from complete strangers who would eventually start to ride me like a bad rash. It's happened more than once and every single time, without exception, the gakkai cult zombies would eventually get out of hand to the point where I would have to get into their face, push back and start to avoid. I eventually wised up, but not before learning that "gakkers" are pretty much the same everywhere. In my experience, there are absolutely no redeeming qualities that I can cite when it comes to these people. Zebras of the same stripe is an accurate description; sooner or later, they all reveal their true colors (and it - always - isn't pretty).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2012 05:47AM by Hitch.

Not sure if this is related, but I came across this [www.icsahome.com].

A fascinating read. I instinctively fought back against many of the things discussed in the article:

"Cultic groups foster unhealthy forms of dependency by focusing on submission and obedience to those in authority." - After I reached a plateau phase during my time in I began to feign piety and slowly push back whenever the opportunity presented itself in the cult. Erecting such a wall shielded me from a lot of the more severe manipulation (I would only go along with things up to a certain point. If that point was reached, I would be adamant in my refusals).

"Such a state maximizes the leadership’s capacity to control members in a variety of ways. The leadership’s subtle manipulations and/or forceful demands are reinforced by a system of rewards or punishments that always are changing, sometimes with different reactions to the same “offense.” This constant need to serve the leadership in the face of changing doctrine prevents members from becoming complacent and fosters a sense of anxious dependency. Hence, they are always trying to please while never feeling that they measure up." - I started to realize very early on that no matter how much you did or how much effort you gave, it would ultimately, somehow, never be quite enough. I started to see thru the hypocrisy and manipulation.

"Children are raised in an environment in which dire threats (for example: the “devil”), and regular criticism of their failings make them feel insecure, self-hating, and dependent upon leadership for whatever intermittent reinforcement leadership provides." - I've heard all the threats and variations thereof. I slowly immunized myself against them by self-education, skepticism and critical thinking.

"A second detrimental consequence of such psychologically abusive environments results from the tendency for leadership to treat parents as “middle management” with regard to their own children. Parents are seduced and/or pressured into relinquishing primary responsibility for making decisions that impinge upon their children’s welfare." - I can relate to some "lite" versions of this happening during my time in and this point also relates back to the first one mentioned above about the severe manipulation episodes. I also remember being a bit confused as to how my parent(s) would sometimes let "leaders" get away with things (behavior/treatment) that they would never allow any other non-member adults to do. I eventually realized that they were not in their right mind and this eventually resulted in a very nasty blow-up between a top leader and myself, with me having to stand my ground all alone and unsupported. Ironically, this episode went a long way in building my courage and bolstering my confidence against the cultic mindset and tactics - it was very liberating and empowering.

"Cult parents are made to feel that they are being “selfish” when they have a normal desire for a special, loving, or exclusive relationship with their children, and their belief in the leader’s worldview leaves them unable to nurture and protect their own offspring. Thus, educational decisions, disciplinary measures, medical decisions, etc., will frequently issue from the group’s leader, directly or indirectly." - I have on more than one occasion, secretly laughed inside when "leaders" would pretend to be oracles and render pronouncements about what was best under certain circumstances, especially in situations where they had absolutely zero genuine knowledge or background about. One time, even George M. Williams caused me to want to roll my eyes during his delivery of one of his delusionally arrogant uninformed "opinions." I've think I've also mentioned before, that I never really understood how people would feel the need to go get "guidance" about things that the leadership knew absolutely nothing about in real life. I've always found this aspect of the practice to be bizarre and utterly absurd.

"Children raised in such environments cannot develop confidence in themselves, or their immediate environment, because they can be criticized even when they obey; for they are obeying irrational belief systems that often have negative consequences in the real world. But because the belief system by definition is unassailable, the child will always be “wrong.”" - I could see with my own eyes that they were the ones who were foolish and wrong.

"It is almost self-evident that groups that are isolationist, subjectivist, and logically closed will hinder children’s attempts to learn the interpersonal, intellectual, and practical skills that mainstream society puts so much effort into teaching children. If reason is denigrated because reason threatens the irrational beliefs of leadership, a child’s capacity to reason will be stunted. If the outside world is viewed as evil, a child’s opportunity to interact with a variety of people and to learn practical skills in the world will be restricted." - This explains some of the bizarre hostility and resentment that I experienced from certain insecure "leaders" when I was a college student obtaining an education. At the time it confused me, but I was eventually able to see it for what it was --> a threat to their control and worldview.

With the exception of the Jesus quote at the end of the article, I liked it a lot and found much truthful insight within.

@ Hitch
Its funny that you should mention the education issue. While skipping through the talk pages in Wikipedia I noticed that some in SGI are quite willing to condemn academics critical of SGI as being mislead by tabloids while those speaking in favour are best next to sliced bread. Looking at the edits and propaganda going with it … some in SGI have not the faintest idea on propper academic approach on issues, which is a sad state of affairs when talking of an organisation devoted to education. I had my own conflicts with a family member still in SGI and in the end the fact that I am an academic was used against me as I was apparently unable to see the “truth”.
What SGI is practising has nothing to do with Buddhism … they hijacked an established religious practice to secure the existence of an organisation based on exploit and thereby securing the position of a whole group of individuals who gain financially. And I am sorry to say that … I look at the lives of people I have known for years and through the grape vine one knows what is happening in their lives … many of them are utter failures. I mean failure not only in a financial way, we all know how hard it can be to make ends meet at times, but on a personal and family level. Their families are much more than average simply dysfunctional – full stop.
So the bottom line is that this organistation fails to even get close to the goals it has set out for itself. Peace, Culture and Education. I talked about the Education issue already. Lets look at Culture --- its simply mediocre what SGI produces let alone its so called museums. Peace????????? Oh right the annual peace proposal. Never ever has SGI taken up human rights issues in China, Russia or the Ukraine let alone the Middle East. Never EVER have I seen proof that SG took sides with Gandhi or Martin Luther King admits there struggles while it was going on. In my books SGI is simply perverted. If I made any mistakes here ... please keep in mind that I am in Europe and at times my English ... lacks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2012 02:16AM by Rothaus.

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evergreen
Also saddened by a member that I care very much about who is only interested in telling me that my life will always suck if I don't chant. I am doomed to have bad things or bad karma if I don't change my life. I used to check in on her as she is older and has been abandoned by most of her other members and her own family.

My aging parents have been abandoned by the organization also. In their younger days they were highly respected leaders who many people went to for "guidance." Now in their 70's and no longer able to attend meetings due to health problems, they pretty much cease to exist in the youth-obsessed eyes of the SGI. Three years ago, while I was visiting them, a couple of women's division members stopped by. Their agenda was to give my parents some sort of worthless token "award" (and I use that word very loosely) from Danny Nagashima recognizing their status as pioneer members. I was in a different room when this, uh, "great honor" was being bestowed upon them. The visitors went through the usual "How are you doing?" Q&A session but you could practically hear them looking down at their watches and wondering how long they needed to stay to fulfill their duty. I'm sure a large portion of their disinterest stemmed from the fact that they were there to give something rather than get something.

Quote
Hitch
As a second generation "misfortune baby", I'm sure we have walked a very similar path.

"Misfortune baby" - love it! I'll introduce myself as such to the next Ikeda-bot I talk to.... but I'm sure they won't get it.

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SGBye
My aging parents have been abandoned by the organization also.

In their younger days they were highly respected leaders who many people went to for "guidance." Now in their 70's and no longer able to attend meetings due to health problems, they pretty much cease to exist in the youth-obsessed eyes of the SGI.

I've noticed the same thing, too. The cult org. uses up "YOUTH!" like a new car that you drive into the ground and abandon once you have no more use for it. Sad, but true.

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SGBye
Three years ago, while I was visiting them, a couple of women's division members stopped by.

....... you could practically hear them looking down at their watches and wondering how long they needed to stay to fulfill their duty. I'm sure a large portion of their disinterest stemmed from the fact that they were there to give something rather than get something.

I KNEW it had to be "women's division"! You've got them pegged to a tee. We are definitely on the same wavelength when it comes to even the smallest details regarding this cult.

Regarding "WD" - Unless they are kissing up to a senior "leader" (especially Japanese ones), you can usually find them looking down their noses with smug superiority, gossiping about and dripping with judgmental arrogance at everyone else.

Quote
Rothaus
@ Hitch
Its funny that you should mention the education issue. While skipping through the talk pages in Wikipedia I noticed that some in SGI are quite willing to condemn academics critical of SGI as being mislead by tabloids while those speaking in favour are best next to sliced bread. Looking at the edits and propaganda going with it … some in SGI have not the faintest idea on propper academic approach on issues, which is a sad state of affairs when talking of an organisation devoted to education. I had my own conflicts with a family member still in SGI and in the end the fact that I am an academic was used against me as I was apparently unable to see the “truth”.
What SGI is practising has nothing to do with Buddhism … they hijacked an established religious practice to secure the existence of an organisation based on exploit and thereby securing the position of a whole group of individuals who gain financially. And I am sorry to say that … I look at the lives of people I have known for years and through the grape vine one knows what is happening in their lives … many of them are utter failures. I mean failure not only in a financial way, we all know how hard it can be to make ends meet at times, but on a personal and family level. Their families are much more than average simply dysfunctional – full stop.
So the bottom line is that this organistation fails to even get close to the goals it has set out for itself. Peace, Culture and Education. I talked about the Education issue already. Lets look at Culture --- its simply mediocre what SGI produces let alone its so called museums. Peace????????? Oh right the annual peace proposal. Never ever has SGI taken up human rights issues in China, Russia or the Ukraine let alone the Middle East. Never EVER have I seen proof that SG took sides with Gandhi or Martin Luther King admits there struggles while it was going on. In my books SGI is simply perverted. If I made any mistakes here ... please keep in mind that I am in Europe and at times my English ... lacks.

Brilliant post, Rothaus. "Soka Education" is an oxymoron. It is the antithesis of genuine logical, skeptical and rational inquiry. The joke is definitely on them. Just like everything in the cult org., the superficial golden thread gilded robes are just masking a rotten core underneath.

Quote
Hitch

Quote
Rothaus
@ Hitch
Its funny that you should mention the education issue. While skipping through the talk pages in Wikipedia I noticed that some in SGI are quite willing to condemn academics critical of SGI as being mislead by tabloids while those speaking in favour are best next to sliced bread. Looking at the edits and propaganda going with it … some in SGI have not the faintest idea on propper academic approach on issues, which is a sad state of affairs when talking of an organisation devoted to education. I had my own conflicts with a family member still in SGI and in the end the fact that I am an academic was used against me as I was apparently unable to see the “truth”.
What SGI is practising has nothing to do with Buddhism … they hijacked an established religious practice to secure the existence of an organisation based on exploit and thereby securing the position of a whole group of individuals who gain financially. And I am sorry to say that … I look at the lives of people I have known for years and through the grape vine one knows what is happening in their lives … many of them are utter failures. I mean failure not only in a financial way, we all know how hard it can be to make ends meet at times, but on a personal and family level. Their families are much more than average simply dysfunctional – full stop.
So the bottom line is that this organistation fails to even get close to the goals it has set out for itself. Peace, Culture and Education. I talked about the Education issue already. Lets look at Culture --- its simply mediocre what SGI produces let alone its so called museums. Peace????????? Oh right the annual peace proposal. Never ever has SGI taken up human rights issues in China, Russia or the Ukraine let alone the Middle East. Never EVER have I seen proof that SG took sides with Gandhi or Martin Luther King admits there struggles while it was going on. In my books SGI is simply perverted. If I made any mistakes here ... please keep in mind that I am in Europe and at times my English ... lacks.

Brilliant post, Rothaus. "Soka Education" is an oxymoron. It is the antithesis of genuine logical, skeptical and rational inquiry. The joke is definitely on them. Just like everything in the cult org., the superficial golden thread gilded robes are just masking a rotten core underneath.

It is indeed a great post. SGI/NSA seemed almost against education. One may begin to think critically if educated. I can think of many examples of youth being discouraged from getting a higher education, especially in the days of NSA. And looked down upon if too intellectual. Nowadays, of course there is Soka University to produce the next generation of free thinkers!

Speaking of Soka University --- is it not odd that they do not even have a philosophy or even Buddhist studies department? Okay in a way it makes sense as if they did it would mean to enter into a serious philosophical and religious discourse with other institutions … it would mean more that just citing a ikeda poem where he cites those who cite others and this not even always correctly and have the assembly all up in tears overcome by emotion.