Re: Soka Gakkai-- SGI - Barbara O'Brien buddhism.about.com
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 18, 2011 04:56AM
In Buddhism: ikeda
[buddhism.about.com]
(they had to close the comments for this one. She not even a critic of Ikeda, just asks a question. But people need to do their research, and not be so naive about things like this.)
Gandhi, King, and ... Ikeda? [buddhism.about.com]
By Barbara O'Brien, About.com Guide October 28, 2009
[buddhism.about.com]
(they had to close the comments for this one. She not even a critic of Ikeda, just asks a question. But people need to do their research, and not be so naive about things like this.)
Gandhi, King, and ... Ikeda? [buddhism.about.com]
By Barbara O'Brien, About.com Guide October 28, 2009
Re: Soka Gakkai-- SGI - Barbara O'Brien buddhism.about.com
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 18, 2011 05:13AM
There are some hilarious posts there, about how Ikeda suffered like other martyrs, he suffers in the limos and 5 Star Hotels for the sake of SGI.
The only stuff followers of Ikeda can come up with, is that Ikeda got sick a couple times, and kept working until 3am. Well, yeah, Ikeda was an obsessive workaholic, Japanese style, but not to save the world. To build up the billions.
Why do some people work 18 hrs a day to amass billions? Vanity, power, low self-worth.
Frankly, it seems Ikeda has a deep sense of low self-worth, which is what drove him to make himself seem like a bigshot.
Its amazing the SGI-USA leaders are posting on About.com. They read that stuff.
But they don't post in a forum like this, where what they say will be researched and checked out.
But its interesting, they cannot come up with even one single thing Ikeda ever actually did for "peace".
That is because its marketing propaganda.
The only stuff followers of Ikeda can come up with, is that Ikeda got sick a couple times, and kept working until 3am. Well, yeah, Ikeda was an obsessive workaholic, Japanese style, but not to save the world. To build up the billions.
Why do some people work 18 hrs a day to amass billions? Vanity, power, low self-worth.
Frankly, it seems Ikeda has a deep sense of low self-worth, which is what drove him to make himself seem like a bigshot.
Its amazing the SGI-USA leaders are posting on About.com. They read that stuff.
But they don't post in a forum like this, where what they say will be researched and checked out.
But its interesting, they cannot come up with even one single thing Ikeda ever actually did for "peace".
That is because its marketing propaganda.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
LanceLink
()
Date: April 18, 2011 09:44AM
Dear Fellow Ex-Members --
I am new here. I was a member from 1974 to 1977, in Los Angeles, when I was 14 to 17 years old. I have a lot of experiences I would like to write about, but, before I get started, I would like to know: Does anyone care if I use the real names of other members? I have true stories from that era.
LanceLink
I am new here. I was a member from 1974 to 1977, in Los Angeles, when I was 14 to 17 years old. I have a lot of experiences I would like to write about, but, before I get started, I would like to know: Does anyone care if I use the real names of other members? I have true stories from that era.
LanceLink
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Shavoy
()
Date: April 19, 2011 12:30AM
Quote
LanceLink
Dear Fellow Ex-Members --
I am new here. I was a member from 1974 to 1977, in Los Angeles, when I was 14 to 17 years old. I have a lot of experiences I would like to write about, but, before I get started, I would like to know: Does anyone care if I use the real names of other members? I have true stories from that era.
Personally, I don't think that's a great idea, LanceLink. Rick Ross also suggests not giving away too many details that may identify various parties, including oneself.
If you want to share what you went through, I think all here would certainly be interested, though!
Shavoy
LanceLink
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 19, 2011 04:14AM
If a person is a SGI-USA senior member or leader, in the public domain, and making their living from SGI, then there is no problem using their name. That is their job, that is their career, and they are in the public domain.
If some of the big leaders with SGI-USA today, or in the past, were active at that time, then its public domain what they did. So the public has a right to know.
The public should have a right to know where the SGI donation money goes, but of course its all concealed.
On the other hand, a private individual, someone who was a victim of a group, or was used by a group, then obviously its up to that person whether or not to come forward. They are not in the public domain, as they were not making money from it.
That being said, of course its up to the Mods what stays, or what gets deleted. So each person should do what they think is right.
But the SGI-USA big sharks need some public criticism.
Maybe at some point, someone inside SGI-USA will leak documents about where all the SGI money goes. (cue sounds of the SGI paper shredders...)
If some of the big leaders with SGI-USA today, or in the past, were active at that time, then its public domain what they did. So the public has a right to know.
The public should have a right to know where the SGI donation money goes, but of course its all concealed.
On the other hand, a private individual, someone who was a victim of a group, or was used by a group, then obviously its up to that person whether or not to come forward. They are not in the public domain, as they were not making money from it.
That being said, of course its up to the Mods what stays, or what gets deleted. So each person should do what they think is right.
But the SGI-USA big sharks need some public criticism.
Maybe at some point, someone inside SGI-USA will leak documents about where all the SGI money goes. (cue sounds of the SGI paper shredders...)
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
bobze39
()
Date: April 19, 2011 07:42AM
We discussed here a lot why SGI sells its product with Master/Disciple tag attached to it risking to lose a lot of potential customers. Tsukimoto said that SGI doesn't care about the number of followers, but rather their loyalty. SGI prefers customers who don't question Master/Disciple concept. So, who is the most typical SGI follower? Let's create a profile of the most typical SGI follower. We might learn something from it. Let's take a look at the SGI membership statistics map from their official site:
[www.sgi.org]
Interesting thing! They claim that they have 12 million members worldwide. In Japan they have 8.27 million households, and in all other countries combined they have 1 689 000 people. If we deduct 1 689 000 from 12 million we will have 10 311 000 people in Japan. That's 86% of SGI population. So, one thing is for sure, the most typical SGI follower is a Japanese national. That makes sense. Japanese culture has admiration for obidience. Not only Japanese tolerate SGI, they even tolerate yakuza to some extent for the same reason. Here is a quote from the book of Jake Adelstein "Tokyo Vice": The yakuza represent traditional Japanese values; honour, loyalty, reciprocity, endurance, obedience. The yakuza have portrayed themselves as preserving those values. In that sense they are kind of admired.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
If we divide the number of SGI members in Japan 10 311 000 by the number of SGI households 8 270 000, we will get 1.2 people in 1 household. So, in these 8.27 million houses 1.2 people in each house practice SGI. A typical Japanese family is a family of three - father, mother and a child (most of Japanese families have 1 or 2 children - the population is decreasing). But only 1 and more rearly 2 people in each family practice SGI. Take a wild guess who, the mother, the father or the child? Who has the time to do all the free work for SGI, to attend all the activities and chant every day? Fathers, who are obsessed workaholics (Japanese style) trying to make a living in this economy? Or the children, who are trying very hard to get high grades in the super-competitive Japanese school environment? Of course - the housewives! Desperate housewives! So, we can conclude that the most typical face of an SGI member is a face of a Japanese housewife. That conclusion is also supported by the statistics from another site Cult Awaremess and Information Library in the article about Soka Gakkai, chapter 18 "Ordinary members". In contrast with traditional Buddhism or Shinto, Soka stresses worldly values rather than afterlife ones, emphasising the achievement of health, prosperity, self-improvement, and happiness through faith in Nichiren. During Toda's era, the wooden Dai-Gohonzon was described as the 'Happiness-Generating Machine', and instant benefit could be derived from it if one reveres to it. It therefore has a special appeal to housewives because of chauvinism typical of male Japanese. This is especially so when they enter the climacteric period of menopause and they see the organisation as a source of community and spiritual comfort as they can find every answer in it. Some 65% of Soka members in Japan are female.
[www.culthelp.info]
The concept of selling appliances to housewives is nothing new. In America in 1950s and 60s lots of salesmen were going from house to house trying to sell home appliances. So, the talented salesman Ikeda was going from a house to house and selling the product that Japanese housewives really needed - SGI practice, not vacuum cleaners, not kitchen appliances.
So, what is a typical Japanese housewife in the 21st century? Probably more desperate than American housewives from the famous TV series "Desperate Housewives". Not as oppressed as in the past, but still a long way to go to real freedom and still suffering from the male chauvinism. So, SGI is the way for them to socialize and to get their power back. SGI gives them what country clubs or psychotherapists give to American women. Chanting helps them to forget their daily problems and abuse from men. They probably receive guidance to endure and to try to be a better wife. And they are not questioning the Mentor/Disciple relationships as a lot of them have similar relationships with their husbands.
So, Ikeda built a multi-billion dollar empire selling SGI practice to Japanese housewives. But, the business of selling SGI practice in other 200 countries is not going so well. There are only 1 689 000 members in all other countries combined. Out of which 1 million are in Asia. So in Americas, Europe, Africa and Middle East there are only 689 000 SGI members. Not a great success compare to Japan.
And in Japan itself the situation is changing. Women are becoming more independant and emancipated. They might start choosing to go to a real country club and a real psychotherapist instead of SGI. As this happens SGI will lose its main customer base.
[www.sgi.org]
Interesting thing! They claim that they have 12 million members worldwide. In Japan they have 8.27 million households, and in all other countries combined they have 1 689 000 people. If we deduct 1 689 000 from 12 million we will have 10 311 000 people in Japan. That's 86% of SGI population. So, one thing is for sure, the most typical SGI follower is a Japanese national. That makes sense. Japanese culture has admiration for obidience. Not only Japanese tolerate SGI, they even tolerate yakuza to some extent for the same reason. Here is a quote from the book of Jake Adelstein "Tokyo Vice": The yakuza represent traditional Japanese values; honour, loyalty, reciprocity, endurance, obedience. The yakuza have portrayed themselves as preserving those values. In that sense they are kind of admired.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
If we divide the number of SGI members in Japan 10 311 000 by the number of SGI households 8 270 000, we will get 1.2 people in 1 household. So, in these 8.27 million houses 1.2 people in each house practice SGI. A typical Japanese family is a family of three - father, mother and a child (most of Japanese families have 1 or 2 children - the population is decreasing). But only 1 and more rearly 2 people in each family practice SGI. Take a wild guess who, the mother, the father or the child? Who has the time to do all the free work for SGI, to attend all the activities and chant every day? Fathers, who are obsessed workaholics (Japanese style) trying to make a living in this economy? Or the children, who are trying very hard to get high grades in the super-competitive Japanese school environment? Of course - the housewives! Desperate housewives! So, we can conclude that the most typical face of an SGI member is a face of a Japanese housewife. That conclusion is also supported by the statistics from another site Cult Awaremess and Information Library in the article about Soka Gakkai, chapter 18 "Ordinary members". In contrast with traditional Buddhism or Shinto, Soka stresses worldly values rather than afterlife ones, emphasising the achievement of health, prosperity, self-improvement, and happiness through faith in Nichiren. During Toda's era, the wooden Dai-Gohonzon was described as the 'Happiness-Generating Machine', and instant benefit could be derived from it if one reveres to it. It therefore has a special appeal to housewives because of chauvinism typical of male Japanese. This is especially so when they enter the climacteric period of menopause and they see the organisation as a source of community and spiritual comfort as they can find every answer in it. Some 65% of Soka members in Japan are female.
[www.culthelp.info]
The concept of selling appliances to housewives is nothing new. In America in 1950s and 60s lots of salesmen were going from house to house trying to sell home appliances. So, the talented salesman Ikeda was going from a house to house and selling the product that Japanese housewives really needed - SGI practice, not vacuum cleaners, not kitchen appliances.
So, what is a typical Japanese housewife in the 21st century? Probably more desperate than American housewives from the famous TV series "Desperate Housewives". Not as oppressed as in the past, but still a long way to go to real freedom and still suffering from the male chauvinism. So, SGI is the way for them to socialize and to get their power back. SGI gives them what country clubs or psychotherapists give to American women. Chanting helps them to forget their daily problems and abuse from men. They probably receive guidance to endure and to try to be a better wife. And they are not questioning the Mentor/Disciple relationships as a lot of them have similar relationships with their husbands.
So, Ikeda built a multi-billion dollar empire selling SGI practice to Japanese housewives. But, the business of selling SGI practice in other 200 countries is not going so well. There are only 1 689 000 members in all other countries combined. Out of which 1 million are in Asia. So in Americas, Europe, Africa and Middle East there are only 689 000 SGI members. Not a great success compare to Japan.
And in Japan itself the situation is changing. Women are becoming more independant and emancipated. They might start choosing to go to a real country club and a real psychotherapist instead of SGI. As this happens SGI will lose its main customer base.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
LanceLink
()
Date: April 19, 2011 09:59AM
Thanks.
I don't have anything particularly unpleasant to say about anyone, but I thought real names would be more interesting. Like "Andy Williams (teen son of George Williams) stuck a cheeseburger in my face during an overnight bus trip to San Francisco for a stadium show in 1976, for the Bicentennial." True.
You know, stuff like that.
But, as you say, it's up to the Mods.
LanceLink
I don't have anything particularly unpleasant to say about anyone, but I thought real names would be more interesting. Like "Andy Williams (teen son of George Williams) stuck a cheeseburger in my face during an overnight bus trip to San Francisco for a stadium show in 1976, for the Bicentennial." True.
You know, stuff like that.
But, as you say, it's up to the Mods.
LanceLink
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Shavoy
()
Date: April 20, 2011 12:07AM
Quote
bobze39
We discussed here a lot why SGI sells its product with Master/Disciple tag attached to it risking to lose a lot of potential customers. Tsukimoto said that SGI doesn't care about the number of followers, but rather their loyalty. SGI prefers customers who don't question Master/Disciple concept. So, who is the most typical SGI follower? Let's create a profile of the most typical SGI follower. We might learn something from it. Let's take a look at the SGI membership statistics map from their official site:
[www.sgi.org]
Interesting thing! They claim that they have 12 million members worldwide. In Japan they have 8.27 million households, and in all other countries combined they have 1 689 000 people. If we deduct 1 689 000 from 12 million we will have 10 311 000 people in Japan. That's 86% of SGI population. So, one thing is for sure, the most typical SGI follower is a Japanese national. That makes sense. Japanese culture has admiration for obidience. Not only Japanese tolerate SGI, they even tolerate yakuza to some extent for the same reason. Here is a quote from the book of Jake Adelstein "Tokyo Vice": The yakuza represent traditional Japanese values; honour, loyalty, reciprocity, endurance, obedience. The yakuza have portrayed themselves as preserving those values. In that sense they are kind of admired.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
If we divide the number of SGI members in Japan 10 311 000 by the number of SGI households 8 270 000, we will get 1.2 people in 1 household. So, in these 8.27 million houses 1.2 people in each house practice SGI. A typical Japanese family is a family of three - father, mother and a child (most of Japanese families have 1 or 2 children - the population is decreasing). But only 1 and more rearly 2 people in each family practice SGI. Take a wild guess who, the mother, the father or the child? Who has the time to do all the free work for SGI, to attend all the activities and chant every day? Fathers, who are obsessed workaholics (Japanese style) trying to make a living in this economy? Or the children, who are trying very hard to get high grades in the super-competitive Japanese school environment? Of course - the housewives! Desperate housewives! So, we can conclude that the most typical face of an SGI member is a face of a Japanese housewife. That conclusion is also supported by the statistics from another site Cult Awaremess and Information Library in the article about Soka Gakkai, chapter 18 "Ordinary members". In contrast with traditional Buddhism or Shinto, Soka stresses worldly values rather than afterlife ones, emphasising the achievement of health, prosperity, self-improvement, and happiness through faith in Nichiren. During Toda's era, the wooden Dai-Gohonzon was described as the 'Happiness-Generating Machine', and instant benefit could be derived from it if one reveres to it. It therefore has a special appeal to housewives because of chauvinism typical of male Japanese. This is especially so when they enter the climacteric period of menopause and they see the organisation as a source of community and spiritual comfort as they can find every answer in it. Some 65% of Soka members in Japan are female.
[www.culthelp.info]
The concept of selling appliances to housewives is nothing new. In America in 1950s and 60s lots of salesmen were going from house to house trying to sell home appliances. So, the talented salesman Ikeda was going from a house to house and selling the product that Japanese housewives really needed - SGI practice, not vacuum cleaners, not kitchen appliances.
So, what is a typical Japanese housewife in the 21st century? Probably more desperate than American housewives from the famous TV series "Desperate Housewives". Not as oppressed as in the past, but still a long way to go to real freedom and still suffering from the male chauvinism. So, SGI is the way for them to socialize and to get their power back. SGI gives them what country clubs or psychotherapists give to American women. Chanting helps them to forget their daily problems and abuse from men. They probably receive guidance to endure and to try to be a better wife. And they are not questioning the Mentor/Disciple relationships as a lot of them have similar relationships with their husbands.
So, Ikeda built a multi-billion dollar empire selling SGI practice to Japanese housewives. But, the business of selling SGI practice in other 200 countries is not going so well. There are only 1 689 000 members in all other countries combined. Out of which 1 million are in Asia. So in Americas, Europe, Africa and Middle East there are only 689 000 SGI members. Not a great success compare to Japan.
And in Japan itself the situation is changing. Women are becoming more independant and emancipated. They might start choosing to go to a real country club and a real psychotherapist instead of SGI. As this happens SGI will lose its main customer base.
bobze39.....this really hammered things home for me....thank you so much for this post. It makes total sense. Japanese culture values loyalty and obedience. U.S. culture will never get that rabid. Henceforth, in America at least, the numbers have not rolled in the way SGI really, really wants them to. 86% of the worldwide SGI population in Japan. That's a lot of catching up to do with the rest of the world. And your explanation of the appeal for the Japanese housewife is brilliant.
Fantastic, bobze.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
wakatta1
()
Date: April 20, 2011 07:13AM
@Bobze39 - Spot On! I practiced with the Gakkai in the late 60's in Japan and then 20 years with NSA and without the armies of WD to do the heavy lifting NSA would have been very tiny.
Who can forget the bottled water and miso-coated riceballs, a toban staple at the Foster Avenue Kaikan -MMMM, OISHI!!.
"Oh! you speeke velly good japonezu" they would say and then realize they had been chattering away in their "secret tongue" while a Gaijin listened in on who they really were. Talk about HOBO! Most were sweethearts in english but in their native tongue and behavior - egads! My theory was that NSA provided them with a home-like environment away from home in the US. Very little acculturation occurred for them, most hiding behind their polite smiles and silent nods. Bring in a new member and they were on top of them, like pirannah. "you married?", "you gotta girl friend?", "where you live?". Once they got grist for their gossip mill they would do a 180 and suddenly become devout buddhists. "Ohhhh! You be velly happy", "Just chant a rot" and so forth.
If they were bored they would pick a victim and do a "home V". Pop up at their door unannounced and once inside, check out their house to gossip about some more. If the person was prosperous they were really "zojoman" (stuck up). If the person was down on their luck "tsk-tsk, they needo do much daimoku and zaimu" the ladies would pronounce triumphantly. And in a million other ways these fujin (ladies) would try to poke their nose deep into each member's lives, criticize them behind their backs, and still try to act like they had the "shining gakkai spirit". How many american members quit just to get away from the WD?
Guess I'm getting a little carried away here, but the point is that the very core of NSA was the WD. Their committment to the organization (good and bad) sustained it, and likely will continue to sustain it. Steady followers, mostly because they don't care about the philosophy or the dogma, but more about having their cultural support system there for them. Want to take a trip to japan? Go to the kaikan. Tatami mats, kanji slogans on the walls, pictures of sensei and other presidents on the walls. Just like back at home in Japan, nice and familiar. That is who will sustain SGI until they ultimately fade away.
Want to know who runs things at the hombu level, the Japanese "big shots" have Japanese wives and the Japanese wives talk to one another. Surprising how things work out for the WD when there is a conflict involving them. I saw plenty of members get "stern guidance" and nary a WD for far more serious offenses. Just sayin....
Wakatta1
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2011 07:28AM by wakatta1.
Who can forget the bottled water and miso-coated riceballs, a toban staple at the Foster Avenue Kaikan -MMMM, OISHI!!.
"Oh! you speeke velly good japonezu" they would say and then realize they had been chattering away in their "secret tongue" while a Gaijin listened in on who they really were. Talk about HOBO! Most were sweethearts in english but in their native tongue and behavior - egads! My theory was that NSA provided them with a home-like environment away from home in the US. Very little acculturation occurred for them, most hiding behind their polite smiles and silent nods. Bring in a new member and they were on top of them, like pirannah. "you married?", "you gotta girl friend?", "where you live?". Once they got grist for their gossip mill they would do a 180 and suddenly become devout buddhists. "Ohhhh! You be velly happy", "Just chant a rot" and so forth.
If they were bored they would pick a victim and do a "home V". Pop up at their door unannounced and once inside, check out their house to gossip about some more. If the person was prosperous they were really "zojoman" (stuck up). If the person was down on their luck "tsk-tsk, they needo do much daimoku and zaimu" the ladies would pronounce triumphantly. And in a million other ways these fujin (ladies) would try to poke their nose deep into each member's lives, criticize them behind their backs, and still try to act like they had the "shining gakkai spirit". How many american members quit just to get away from the WD?
Guess I'm getting a little carried away here, but the point is that the very core of NSA was the WD. Their committment to the organization (good and bad) sustained it, and likely will continue to sustain it. Steady followers, mostly because they don't care about the philosophy or the dogma, but more about having their cultural support system there for them. Want to take a trip to japan? Go to the kaikan. Tatami mats, kanji slogans on the walls, pictures of sensei and other presidents on the walls. Just like back at home in Japan, nice and familiar. That is who will sustain SGI until they ultimately fade away.
Want to know who runs things at the hombu level, the Japanese "big shots" have Japanese wives and the Japanese wives talk to one another. Surprising how things work out for the WD when there is a conflict involving them. I saw plenty of members get "stern guidance" and nary a WD for far more serious offenses. Just sayin....
Wakatta1
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2011 07:28AM by wakatta1.
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