@Chanter 16, You wrote, "Many in the SGI now are not focused on the right things; it's back to the old style of desperately increasing the membership and there are often casualties to this type of 'membership drive'. I'm sorry if you were not treated right." I agree with you until your last sentence. You don't need to apologize to FMWT on behalf of SGI. You do not speak for the organization and FMWT's experience was not at all unusual. In fact, it sounds quite typical.
You also wrote, "I also want to point out that people often expect other Buddhists we meet in the organization to be so perfect, and they are not. And we don't all get along that's for sure. We often feel nothing in common with other members. But we sit down and chant together despite those differences and pray to improve ourselves, chant for a friend to overcome their problem, or chant for world peace. We create unity through the daimoku despite the great diversity amongst us. And that example is what shows us World Peace is possible." I don't agree with this at all. SGI's problems go way beyond being disappointed that these Buddhists are not perfect. The fact that the leaders, the publications, and many of the members push that mentor-disciple bull__, that ridiculous Gandhi, King, Ikeda exhibit, The Human Revolution, Ikeda's ridiculous poetry and honorary doctorates, intolerance, RTE, and crass materialism disguised as Buddhism--all of these things disqualify them as actual Buddhists who are doing anything to achieve something as nebulous and idealistic as "world peace."
You wrote, "It sounds like the district you were in was an opportunity for you to stick up for yourself. 'You' decide if you want to be emcee despite what pressure appears to be there. 'You' decide if you want to visit other districts despite what opposition appears to be there. And in embracing this opportunity, 'you' become stronger and then that negative force, contrast or whatever you want to call it, is turned into something positive.
I don't know if you don't like to chant, or just don't like the people involved, but you can do it on your own, if it feels good. If not, just set it aside for now and there might be a time in the future. But you will likely, again, find yourself in situations that are opportunities to strengthen and believe in yourself. The chanting can keep you on a positive course, that is my experience for many years. There have been so many instances of turning difficult negative, even hopeless situations into something great, even greater than I chanted for.Good luck in your quest to become strong and feel inner peace and happiness." Okay, now you sound patronizing. FMWT has indicated some excellent reasons for having a problem with the organization and the practice. These "opportunities" for personal growth and self-determination sound naive and simplistic, especially since so many members and leaders appear to think the same way. Why should FMWT bother with a district and an organization that seems determined to follow a course that is a bad fit for him(or her)? True, any organization is made up of flawed individuals but when a considerable portion truly believe that they are right and know what is right for you, you don't need to stick around for the same old bull. It's funny. You sound like you have left the organization because of its negativity yet you appear to be encouraging FMWT to stick with it. Please don't take what I have written as a personal attack. FMWT sounds like s/he needs to try something else.

For Sure Chanter16 I am dating myself just a tad. I started in the 70's and have seen a lot of stuff - priesthood - breakup –SG/NS/SGI - and some I just can't place - but Ikeda mentor (a misnomer) Master / Disciple is the correct term and it was established by the 'evil priesthood" so SGI really needs to check up on the history - Of course I opened my eyes when I was hearing the YD talk about Ikeda as their mentor in practice and some went as far as to add mentor in their life! I have heard SGI as a cult years ago - some would come up and say that it's all about your President and when he goes so goes your movement! I asked my Master in this practice and he said to always follow the law and not the person! So like you I have seen it morph from something of a Buddhist teaching to the Ikedaism of the organization. Now it’s all about how great he is and how everyone needs to take him as a mentor! I see why so many youth have bailed out of this programming! The journey to enlightenment is not an easy path to take!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2010 02:04AM by cyclops.

Do you go to district meetings anymore? I don't yet feel the need to stop because we operate rather independently; we study and chant and share the good and the bad together. Our district leader is like you - started in the 70's. I hope more people will question things and wake up. I don't really know where all this mentor stuff is going . . . . . . glad I woke up.

Quote
doubtful
@Chanter 16, You wrote, "Many in the SGI now are not focused on the right things; it's back to the old style of desperately increasing the membership and there are often casualties to this type of 'membership drive'. I'm sorry if you were not treated right." I agree with you until your last sentence. You don't need to apologize to FMWT on behalf of SGI. You do not speak for the organization and FMWT's experience was not at all unusual. In fact, it sounds quite typical.
You also wrote, "I also want to point out that people often expect other Buddhists we meet in the organization to be so perfect, and they are not. And we don't all get along that's for sure. We often feel nothing in common with other members. But we sit down and chant together despite those differences and pray to improve ourselves, chant for a friend to overcome their problem, or chant for world peace. We create unity through the daimoku despite the great diversity amongst us. And that example is what shows us World Peace is possible." I don't agree with this at all. SGI's problems go way beyond being disappointed that these Buddhists are not perfect. The fact that the leaders, the publications, and many of the members push that mentor-disciple bull__, that ridiculous Gandhi, King, Ikeda exhibit, The Human Revolution, Ikeda's ridiculous poetry and honorary doctorates, intolerance, RTE, and crass materialism disguised as Buddhism--all of these things disqualify them as actual Buddhists who are doing anything to achieve something as nebulous and idealistic as "world peace."
You wrote, "It sounds like the district you were in was an opportunity for you to stick up for yourself. 'You' decide if you want to be emcee despite what pressure appears to be there. 'You' decide if you want to visit other districts despite what opposition appears to be there. And in embracing this opportunity, 'you' become stronger and then that negative force, contrast or whatever you want to call it, is turned into something positive.
I don't know if you don't like to chant, or just don't like the people involved, but you can do it on your own, if it feels good. If not, just set it aside for now and there might be a time in the future. But you will likely, again, find yourself in situations that are opportunities to strengthen and believe in yourself. The chanting can keep you on a positive course, that is my experience for many years. There have been so many instances of turning difficult negative, even hopeless situations into something great, even greater than I chanted for.Good luck in your quest to become strong and feel inner peace and happiness." Okay, now you sound patronizing. FMWT has indicated some excellent reasons for having a problem with the organization and the practice. These "opportunities" for personal growth and self-determination sound naive and simplistic, especially since so many members and leaders appear to think the same way. Why should FMWT bother with a district and an organization that seems determined to follow a course that is a bad fit for him(or her)? True, any organization is made up of flawed individuals but when a considerable portion truly believe that they are right and know what is right for you, you don't need to stick around for the same old bull. It's funny. You sound like you have left the organization because of its negativity yet you appear to be encouraging FMWT to stick with it. Please don't take what I have written as a personal attack. FMWT sounds like s/he needs to try something else.

Chanter 16 resides in the world of animality. He [she] would never speak to the strong amongst us the way he spoke to FMWT who is still finding her way out of the SGI quagmire. They prey on the weak. SGI members are base and perverted.

FMWT, you have proven that you do indeed believe in yourself, having left the the orbit of SGI co-dependency

Mark.

I haven't been to any SGI meetings or done toban duty since I came back from the Central Territory RTE and it's interesting
that since I stopped attending SGI, my life has actually gotten better. Don't believe what they tell you about your karma. On the other hand, I am grateful to some of the people I met in the SGI who introduced me to the organization that helped me through a difficult time in my life. However, there's no way i can stay involved with SGI because I clearly can't follow their leader. My Gohonzon is still there on the wall but I stuck a Buddha statue in front of the butsudan doors. I'm going to leave it like that for a while. I can't be angry at the SGi because I know that I was meant to have that encounter to teach me something. I'm checking out other Buddhist groups that are more concerned with important issues of our times. SGI is not a group I can support with all the propaganda, the mind control, the leader worship. From what little I know about the SGI history, it seems they have morphed into something very strange. I know another person who has sort of decided to stay away from the SGI after the experience at RTE. One thing that bothered me was how they always talk about world peace, Ghandi and King, but never really do anything to help the planet. Seriously, I don't even think I could go to an SGI meeting again with a straight face and not think they were all crazy...wow, how my outlook has changed!

@chanter 16.

Who-wee lots of emotion on our thread today, but I think your post was encouraging to FMWT , in the same way I have to encourage myself everyday. I look at some of the things I went thru and wonder why I put up with some-of that crap, and then I remind myself, as you said, that it gave me a chance to practice standing up for myself in my day to day activities. We all learn from every situation good and bad, I don't think that we should stay in the bad situation though, and I am sure just as you found your way out FMWT will find their way as well.

On a personal note, I would like to share how happy I am now, I no longer feel fear and paranoia that I did when I first began to question the organization and distanced myself, I know good and bad things happen regardless of what organization you belong too. It has taken a while for me to get to this space , but is has happened.

Some have brought up the memories of 'peace activities', song and dance rehearsals and so forth. I do not want to be the party popper, but I have my serious doubts about the true nature of those activities. They achieved what they were intended to do – the bonding of those attending, creating a familiar atmosphere, something that those attended were looking for in their lives.
A few pages back we touched the subject of peace activities and doubted that they had any other effect then the one described above – bringing the members together for a common goal. The goal however is unimportant in a way as long as the flock stay together (Itai Doshin).
Truth is that SGI never ever made any noticeable contributions in the quest for peace. It never raised its voice (unless their was a general majority already raising their voice) on conflicts like the Middle East, human rights abuse in China or Burma etc. etc. etc.. Look at Nigeria, it even accepted honours from a dubious Nigerian organisation. So for all the 'peace activities' SGI for all its wealth has done very little to make an impact, also in the sense of a humanitarian effort, on easing the problems caused by war, human rights abuse or natural disaster. Okay there were some donations, but as I said when looking at the wealth of SGI they were a mere token.
SGI certainly is active in one 'peace activity' – gathering as much people as possible. So please be critical when looking into the past – most things done, atmospheres created, were not more than mere lip service. SGI never was and never will be a serious partner in inter-religious dialogue (one reason why its not a member in many national Buddhist umbrella organisations) or social economic forums. Since SGI seems to actively gather a willing flock there seems to be a kind of brain drain taking place at the same time. Having said that I fear that SGI will become more radical also.

Oh and maybe the moderator is more knowledgeable on one matter, before its being brought up by some Ikedaists. Is it not true that even Jehovah's Witnesses were at least trying to be acknowledged as an NGO at the UN?

Quote
Rothaus
Some have brought up the memories of 'peace activities', song and dance rehearsals and so forth. I do not want to be the party popper, but I have my serious doubts about the true nature of those activities. They achieved what they were intended to do – the bonding of those attending, creating a familiar atmosphere, something that those attended were looking for in their lives.
A few pages back we touched the subject of peace activities and doubted that they had any other effect then the one described above – bringing the members together for a common goal. The goal however is unimportant in a way as long as the flock stay together (Itai Doshin).
Truth is that SGI never ever made any noticeable contributions in the quest for peace. It never raised its voice (unless their was a general majority already raising their voice) on conflicts like the Middle East, human rights abuse in China or Burma etc. etc. etc.. Look at Nigeria, it even accepted honours from a dubious Nigerian organisation. So for all the 'peace activities' SGI for all its wealth has done very little to make an impact, also in the sense of a humanitarian effort, on easing the problems caused by war, human rights abuse or natural disaster. Okay there were some donations, but as I said when looking at the wealth of SGI they were a mere token.
SGI certainly is active in one 'peace activity' – gathering as much people as possible. So please be critical when looking into the past – most things done, atmospheres created, were not more than mere lip service. SGI never was and never will be a serious partner in inter-religious dialogue (one reason why its not a member in many national Buddhist umbrella organisations) or social economic forums. Since SGI seems to actively gather a willing flock there seems to be a kind of brain drain taking place at the same time. Having said that I fear that SGI will become more radical also.

As someone who has been at the fringe of this organization for 20 years, I agree with this wholeheartedly. I always questioned what real contribrutions SGI has made to peace, I always got the same answer: World peace through individual happiness. Rinse. Repeat.

@ overthetop You wrote, "I haven't been to any SGI meetings or done toban duty since I came back from the Central Territory RTE and it's interesting
that since I stopped attending SGI, my life has actually gotten better. Don't believe what they tell you about your karma." I agree. My life has gotten better since I parted from SGI and NOTHING bad has happened to me. I agree with Morgaine who wrote, "On a personal note, I would like to share how happy I am now, I no longer feel fear and paranoia that I did when I first began to question the organization and distanced myself, I know good and bad things happen regardless of what organization you belong too. It has taken a while for me to get to this space , but is has happened." In fact, I have experienced lots of success with work, family relationships, my health, my personal life--and most of all, I have dissolved a lot of the superstitious thinking I had before because of this forum. THANK YOU RICK ROSS!!!!! I also have let go of the intolerance towards other faiths and have started including Shakyamuni in my prayer to the Gohonzon. I study other teachings of Buddhism and try to incorporate them into my practice. I no longer bristle when I hear others credit their faith (anything other than Nichiren) for their growth, protection, or benefits. I also acknowledge the value of Jesus, God, and any other beings that have moved my spirit forward while I chant. I would never have done this 6 months ago. I feel better--great, in fact. I finally feel like I am honestly in touch with goodness in the universe, not trying to claim the superiority of my practice or teaching. Anybody can do that.
You also wrote, "On the other hand, I am grateful to some of the people I met in the SGI who introduced me to the organization that helped me through a difficult time in my life. However, there's no way i can stay involved with SGI because I clearly can't follow their leader. My Gohonzon is still there on the wall but I stuck a Buddha statue in front of the butsudan doors." I hear you. I too remain grateful to all the priests and lay people including Ikeda who brought this practice to me. Furthermore, in my research I have discovered other Nichiren Buddhists who have also propagated in groups other than SGI. I am grateful to them too. For the first time I think I will also acquire an image of Shakyamuni, not necessarily to worship but as a reminder of the founder of a philosophy I love. How dare any Buddhist organization think it has the right to have a problem with that. See, this is what I was looking for when I joined over 20 years ago, not this narrow-minded cult-like organization that SGI probably always was but more obviously has become.
You wrote, "I'm checking out other Buddhist groups that are more concerned with important issues of our times. SGI is not a group I can support with all the propaganda, the mind control, the leader worship. From what little I know about the SGI history, it seems they have morphed into something very strange...One thing that bothered me was how they always talk about world peace, Ghandi and King, but never really do anything to help the planet. Seriously, I don't even think I could go to an SGI meeting again with a straight face and not think they were all crazy...wow, how my outlook has changed!" Again I hear you. It is safe to say that I will probably never attend an SGI activity ever again. I think that if I have to hear Ikeda promoted as THE mentor or any bull-- about the Gandhi, King, Ikeda exhibit, RTE, The Human Revolution; Ikeda's lectures, poetry, or guidances I will walk right out. I am so glad you came to your senses but have not given up on Buddhism.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2010 12:23AM by doubtful.