@Anticult

"But if SGI made a SGI sand mandala, they would put a huge image of Ikeda in the center of it! They would then list Ikeda 250 fake degrees from China on the edges.
They would then put a nude reclining pose of Ikeda as Caesar.
And they would charge you a $5,000 "donation" for the sand to make the mandala. Then they would turn it into cement, and charge you another 5 grand to put it in your living room. Then SGI-Ikeda would tell you if you damage the SGI mandala, you will die of cancer instantly, or be attacked by spiders.
Then one day when you die one day of old age or natural causes, the SGI police will break into your home and try to steal your SGI concrete mandala.
Ikeda would have a mandala made of pure gold, studded with diamonds, rubies, guarded 24/7 by SGI "volunteer"s."


That's hysterical!!!! The only prob is that no one in SGI would be talented enough or patient enough to make a sand mandala :/ Probably they would used computer aided sand work :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2010 06:31AM by sushigrl.

So much for daimoku "lighting up a room that has been dark for a thousand years".
I feel that way the less and less I have to do with SGI, and the more I feel my own identity re-asserting itself.
But, reading about Tibetean Buddhism in the post above, I feel thats more akin to my own (i.e. not force fed or controlled by a paranoid, cynical, bullying cult like SGI) take on life - the idea that you could spend months creating a mandala ... and then destroy it is beautiful, and really shows what Im looking for. No clutching at members, no inbalanced greed or ego-tripping. As someone pursuing an eco-friendly life, this seems much more compatible than the cynical and vain crap Ive heard in SGI. I wasnt looking for a faith before SGI, but if I were, knowing what I know now, I wouldnt touch the Ikeda branded product with a very long stick! My knowledge of Tibetean Boodhism is vague, westernised and fuzzy at best, and coloured by SGI's slant on things. If anyone knows of a good starting point for investigation, please let me know, although, Im in no hurry to fill the SGI gap.

@DrJesusEsq -
Theres no way Id inflict that on Africa, they've put up with enough Western crap as it is. If I thought for a minute that anything I used to own , that was associated with SGI, could, even in the slightest, cause the same damage it has in my life, I'd rather incinerate the lot, Gohonzon included, than wish that on someone else. No way. Its probably the ONLY time I'd choose to waste or throw away something. No, but I might violate my HQ leaders wishes and post it to him, since I live much too far away from him and it would cost me a lot of time, money and energy to visit him purely for this reason. However, he's asked me not to do this, if he can prove he's passed on my requests to be left alone, I'll respect his wishes too.

@Sushigrl -
LMFAO! Re. New Year Cousin Rufus £/$ bloodsucking, I might send them the ashes of my certificate in a donation envelope! Probably wont though. Time to move on, and lose the baggage, methinks.

BTW, if there is anyone on here who would like a colour plate, of a painting of Nichiren's exile journey to Sado, please PM me with a postal address, and I'll send it out. Its one of an extensive set of prints detailing the whole ND story that a district leader had, he gave one to everyone he knew that recieved Gohonzon. Im not that enamoured by ND anymore, but its up for grabs, its very well done, although the burning boats are a tad ominous. My seasonal gift by way of thanks for this thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2010 06:44AM by wayfarerfree.

Of course what a person chooses to do, or not do, with their own objects like gohonzons, butsudans, and things of that nature, is totally up to them alone.

But a non-Buddhists perspective, is that its very obvious that this area of Buddhism is using those items to manipulate and control people.
Perhaps someone knows the history of when it all started, and how much Ikeda and SGI modified those practices around the gohonzon, butsudan and other things?

But all these control rules about how to use it, who "owns" it, how to get rid of it, where its supposed to go, are very clearly manipulation and control.

For example, the fact that when SGI hears about someone trying to give their gohonzon back, they then PANIC and start an intervention, shows pretty clear what that is about. Isn't that just a way to keep tabs on people and keep them in the sect?

Of course, each person will do what they want to do about it, its up to them.
But burning something is sacred in many traditions, often better than throwing something in the garbage.
Some people who were forced to be catholic as children, and reject it when they grow up, have gone an burned all their catholic papers, so they could symbolically move on.
Burning can be very good, its gone, and gone forever.

From a more classical Buddhist perspective, all of the SGI focus on such attachment to these items seems beyond strange. The Tibetan mandalas make beautiful sense, total involvement, and total non-attachment.

But the strange practices around the SGI gohonzons and other items...its seems almost like some type of cult tactic to control people...or something!

Geez, some dummies think the main message of the Buddha was to learn to be happy with the concepts of non-attachment.
But its kind of hard for Ikeda to amass 100 billion dollars with non-attachment principles.

@Anticult

Can you picture Ikeda and his higher ups making a sand mandala (or mandara)? I think it's the funniest image of him yet. Hi wife could have a harness on him to make sure he didn't fall over. The colors of it might be a little muddy though, green being the predominant, green black and brown signifying the money, power and BS he's foisted on the "masses". Gosh.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2010 07:02AM by sushigrl.

Im still more than a bit confused by the whole Dai-Gohonzon issue.
Is it a fake or not, are there any quotes etc people could come up with tracking SGI's stance on this issue (I think it was Sushigrl that mentioned it earlier?)?

I also practise Reiki... I dont view this as a belief system as such, no more than I would the principles that frame , say acupncture (or the mystical ancient art of plumb-ing), for example.
But Reiki was "rediscovered" leading up to WW2, in Japan. It seems there was a proliferation of things mystical being "re-born" at the time. In the Human Revolution volumes, Toda, according to Ikeda (writing as "Shin-Ichi") also saw this. Did Toda create the current mind-set of SGI, passing it on to Ikeda, or is the monster we see today merely Ikeda's perversion of something that originally had more integrity? From books such as the Human Rev, written as they are by "old stumpy", one has no way of knowing...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2010 07:07AM by wayfarerfree.

Well I think one has to distinguish.
As a Nichiren Buddhist I would say the SGI- Gohonzon is not eye-opened anyway, so its not much different than the Gohonzons you can buy online.
The eye-opening to my mind is, nothing else but, a ceremony. Its a step, a sign of commitment. But its a thing that takes place inside, the Gohonzon “just” a mere reflection of an inner attitude. As you may have browsed the internet you might find that many in Nichiren Shu in fact do hang their Gohonzon on the wall as part of their altar. Witch makes sense as a wall is far more stable than any furniture.

Giving the SGI one back to SGI for me has two aspects:
1.Being counted out as a member of SGI
2.Making clear to the one that I face while handing it back that I am 100% clear and certain about this. As for the one who receives it back, its a clear statement. And I have the guts to do it.

A Gohonzon is just a piece of paper in the end. If you hold the cinema ticket of a date that carried on to be more than just a date, this ticket will to you be more than just a ticket. If the relationship comes to an end, the piece of paper may just be a piece of paper. Years later it may just remind one of a time gone by – maybe a time you never want to through again or a chance missed. Its up to you and how you moved on in life.

I for myself want to the SGI-Gohonzon leave the house finally. For some its an object of worship which I respect, but I do not have to regard it as an object of worship for me.

@ wayfarerfree

Try to get a hold of a copy of 'Fire in the Lotus' by Montgomery. In English one of the most objective books on Nichiren Buddhism. Sadly out of print by now though - Interlibary loan?

The 'Dai-Gohonzon'? to my mind its a fake yes. I guess SGI has not made up its mind on the issue. As I said from the perspective of dogma they are in a giant catch 22 situation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2010 07:36AM by Rothaus.

well, hasn't Ikeda made his own mandalas of a sort?
All of his images of himself, slogans, photo's, trademarks, statues of Ikeda, those are a type of mandala he's made as a monument to his own bloated Ego.

Those ugly and vulgar photo collages of Ikeda with Gandhi and ML King, are a type of perverse anti-mandala. [library.wustl.edu]
The vulgarity of it is laughable, Gandhi, King, Ikeda...its like a satire.
Two the the most famous non-violence people who ever lived who were killed for their beliefs, and then Ikeda the fat-cat billionaire businessman.


...the other sand mandala link seems to be broken, here it is. [en.wikipedia.org]
Sand mandalas are very interesting.
As an aside, people can make their own mandala in their own way, out of their own material. Who needs Big Brother Ikeda to telling people what they can and can't do?

Like the old book said...If You Meet The Buddha On The Road...Kill Him. [www.amazon.com]
That is a metaphor for...there is no Buddha to be found in other people, like SGI-Ikeda. They are frauds and con-men.

@wayfarerfree Well I was just saying send it an SGI center in South Africa, but you're right. The West screwed them over, sending the gohonzon would make things worse. Oh, and as for the color plates of Nichiren> Is there a way you can take a photo of it and post it on photobucket or something? I'd like to see the artwork for it, I still have a thing for Chinese and Japanese paintings.

@sushigrl, And don't forget the color of Japanese yen!

As for those who want to get into Tibetan Buddhism, I am reading "Awakening the Buddha Within" by Lama Surya Das and I personally find it inspiring. That and the (classic) "The Art of Happiness" by HH the Dalai Lama.

interesting link...interesting comment about SGI trying to force someone to sell their house and give SGI the money.
Frankly, SGI must do this all the time, they did not accumulate billions from $20 donations, they have had many people handing over entire estates. That is a whole other level.

There are many reports of SGI stalking and harrassing people in Japan as well.



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[buddhapatriot.blogspot.com]
Thursday, June 26, 2008
Soka Gakkai cult trouble in Japan
"Ex-New Komeito [so-called "Clean Government Party"] chief lashes_out_at_Soka_Gakkai":
...
I Denounce Soka Gakkai [www.amazon.com]
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[search.japantimes.co.jp]

Thursday, June 26, 2008

Ex-New Komeito chief lashes out at Soka Gakkai

By MASAMI ITO Staff writer

Former New Komeito leader Junya Yano said Wednesday that Soka Gakkai, Japan's largest lay Buddhist organization, has been violating his human rights by threatening him and obstructing his freedom of speech.
According to Yano, Soka Gakkai forced him to abandon his activities as a political commentator, published libelous statements about him in the group's Seikyo Shimbun newspaper, and has attempted to force him into selling his house to make a ¥200 million to ¥300 million donation to the group over the last several years.

Yano, who had been a member of Soka Gakkai for more than 50 years, also said he and members of his family have been under surveillance and shadowed by strangers on a daily basis.

"Soka Gakkai is not what it used to be. It has changed," Yano said during a news conference at the Foreign Correspondents' Club of Japan in Chiyoda Ward, Tokyo. Soka Gakkai "is taking antisocial action here and there, and I feel righteous indignation as a citizen."

After he and his family left the group, Yano filed a damages suit against Soka Gakkai on May 12. He was then countersued by an executive member of the influential group, which effectively serves as New Komeito's base.

"As someone who was a lawmaker for a long time, I felt I was abandoning my social responsibility by keeping my mouth shut" about Soka Gakkai, Yano said. "Also, I felt it wouldn't do any good to the members of Soka Gakkai themselves, who took care of me, if I endured (the threats) in bitter silence."

Yano is also in the middle of another suit involving three ex-New Komeito lawmakers. Yano claimed the three, who are all in Soka Gakkai, took documents and notebooks filled with 30 years of his "observations and behind-the-scenes details" in the political world.

Last December, however, the Tokyo District Court ruled that Yano gave the notebooks willingly to the ex-lawmakers. Yano appealed, and the case is in the hands of the high court.

Yano headed New Komeito from 1986 to 1989. The party, now the Liberal Democratic Party's junior member in the ruling bloc, gets much of its clout from Soka Gakkai's huge vote-generating power.

Soka Gakkai "is a massive religious organization that has strong political influence . . . I cannot overlook its antisocial behavior anymore," Yano said.
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