Doubtful, my point was not that SGI is bad for buying property; it's to be expected. Any organization is going to need space for its activities. I just thought that this article was interesting because SGI does already own a lot of valuable real estate in California, and Hawaii.....spending two million dollars to pick up another piece of real estate is nothing to an organization as rich as SGI. And yet, this is the same organization that asks members to work long hours for free. This is the organization that asks members to donate their last five dollars to "create benefit"....and yet refuses to tell them where that five dollars is going.

As to why there wasn't air conditioning in the center you visited? In my opinion, it's because the centers are not actually for the members, despite what SGI says. The centers are an investment for SGI's real estate portfolio, and also a recruiting tool. If SGI is telling prospective members that the practice can help them get anything they want....they can hardly hold big meetings in a dump.

As for your funeral, Evergreen's right. You can have any kind of funeral you want. Just write everything down and give copies to your next of kin. My elderly aunt who planned her funeral and even prepaid it; many funeral homes in the U.S. have this kind of arrangement. It helped us. We mourned, and didn't have the added stress of worrying or arguing about what she might have wanted.

[/quote]

As a former leader I recall listening to member problems and formulating a NSA response in which I believed I was "encouraging them to practice". When I left NSA and realized the level of brainwashing an brain-f**king that went on as a matter of course I truly regretted many of the positions I took those days.

In an organization like SGI with so much emphasis placed on "unity" and "conformity", it is very easy to get swallowed up in the flow and start emulating those "above you" (Sempai?).

So, reading your various posts over these many months I'm very glad to see you are forging a path out of the many landmines that SGI placed in your way. From the sound of your comments it also sounds like you've developed a SGI attachment for your "BS detector" and are making good use of it.

Wakatta1[/quote]

Thank you so much for this Wakatta 1. I also can relate to realizing I was being brainwashed on some level. I still am stunned that I was. Without the help of this board, breaking away from the SGI is a lonely path in some ways because I used to chant about everything, and go for guidance. I don't think chanting is bad, but it reminds me too much of the practice, and all the false hope I had. I am glad we have each other to vent to about the lies of the SGI.

Hi, folks..I posted for first time yesterday, but guess it has not been approved yet. Due to disability, my typing is very limited. Wish I could type away...boy, I do.

Have a half century into the SGI...It has done a lot for me, I cannot take away from that. But the choking suffocation of M/D has opened the nostrils...and it's not a pleasant smell. (Sorry for the weird way of putting it).

All of you here have been so open and informative about your experiences and there is sooo much to relate to with the questions, observations and gut (Gut, you know? Gut feelings? SGI does not like Gut Feelings..no, no, not at All)feelings.

And do not tell me that natural, perfectly legitimate questioning about "the smell" is Fundamental Darkness...

Gotta stop for a bit...but I will stay glued. Thanks to all of you!

Quote
Rothaus
I just thought about some issues the other day. We often pointed out the somewhat dysfunctional family situations some members had at home – mainly leaders.
I often wondered about that typical viscous cycle taking place in life according to SGI.
One is thought to care for fellow members (which at first sight sounds honourable). When looking back did any of you guys never thought that some members overdo the 'caring for others issue' to the extent that they disrespect their own lives? Its as if some of them think that 'caring' for others will make their own problems disappear, as if being in a constant 'helping mode' will be followed by a miraculous reward.
I pointed out those issues now and again in past messages but it just seems to come together now.
In some cases the 'problems' and 'issues' some members had were quite trivial, but never the less leaders would bathe them with attention. In a very sick sense SGI-Ideology is not designed at all to make one become happy at all, as a degree of unhappiness and unresolved issues makes sure you will stick to SGI.

Hello, Rothaus and Everyone on here...I am new but have been reading from start to finish the posts, and I will be re-reading them again and again, I'm sure. As a long-time member of SGI, I have to say this observation is pretty spot-on. Putting aside the realities of family obligations, outside-SGI friend obligations, to solely submerge in Gakkai, is totally defeating and escapist. "Actual Proof"? I think not...Sad. I have been trying to post here the last few days and maybe I am not doing it right.

I like chanting and it's done me a lot of good. A lot of good, despite the fact that Mr. Ikeda is not my Mentor In Life. That I've pretty much picked and chosen what activities I do. That I've never had a consistent practice.

SGI says this is the only way. Temple people evil and foul. We have to Merge with Master Ikeda. We have to become Shin'ichi Yamamoto. We have to fulfill Sensei's Vow. We have to meet his expectations. His heart is our heart. We cannot speak our concerns, because it's Fundamental Darkness. Our feelings do not count. Only Sensei....

Mr. Ikeda has written about being true to oneself....Well, all of us here are being just that. And not being struck down with lightning for being so...

Okay, can't type anymore...thanks for listening!

But what kinds of property is SGI buying? Do they have all sorts of real estate investments, in what?
Where is everyone's money going, and gone to?
No one knows, its all secret.

And SGI has hundreds of millions, and even billions invested globally in stock markets.
Which stocks?

Does SGI hold stocks in companies that manufacture weapons, and profit from war? Of course they do, there is nothing on the SGI websites saying they only invest in "ethical" funds.
Do SGI believers in 'global peace' care about that? Are they aware of it? They must have never even thought that SGI has millions invested in companies that profit from war and weapons.



As well, its very very important to reflect on the fact that "chanting" in fact, has really no connection to the other parts of SGI that are coming under scrutiny. Chanting is chanting, humans have always done it since the stone age, its probably the first singing, just on one note.
So the really serious questions are not about chanting.
Its about all the other SGI non-chanting stuff.

But SGI is very clever, they have designed SGI, to enmesh their members in things like chanting, and not thinking about SGI too much!
There is no question that leaders like Ikeda know that idle minds and idle hands create problems when managing tens of thousands of people, so that is why SGI keeps their members so overbooked to the point of overwhelm and exhaustion.
Those are all standard techniques of influence, persuasion, and control of large groups of people.

One thing is for certain, the SGI-USA senior leaders and flacks who monitor threads like these, and then send reports on them to the SGI Mothership, are going to be very confused. They don't know how to deal with the facts about SGI techniques of mass persuasion coming out so openly, honestly, and clearly.
Its going to make them realize that in fact, they too have been hoodwinked, on another level, by the SGI persuasion machine.

Its quite amazing that more SGI leaders/members have not been suggested/ordered to come to a thread like this, and post rebuttals. Many sects do that. But its pretty clear that at least the SGI-USA bigwigs don't know what to do about a thread like this which exposes SGI wide open. So they can't do anything.

What you have here are former SGI, and those on the fence, trying to make sense of what has been done to them over the years.

The reality is that all of General Ikeda's crude techniques of mass manipulation, can be deconstructed, and explained quite easily.
SGI-USA employs the techniques in a more subtle, yet crass way, due to cultural differences.
But the senior SGI-USA leaders are totally dumbfounded by a thread like this, which totally exposes the SGI charade, top to bottom, with a careful exposition of the facts.

Notice how SGI-USA silenced individual critics with their attacks on them personally. But they can't stop everyone.

All it takes is a small crack to form in the foundation of a rotten house, and the entire structure can begin to collapse.
SGI has billions of its members former dollars, to live off probably at least for the lifetime of Ikeda II.
But after General Ikeda dies, it will probably become more like Scientology, more aggressive, fractured, and various senior leaders looking out for #1. So it starts to fall apart.

Its only a matter of time, that the cracks in the foundation of SGI start to open up, and the entire SGI structure will start to collapse. Once members start to think about the SPECIFIC PERSUASION TECHNIQUES that are being used on them by SGI, it destroys the entire system.
SGI is too big, and too slow to respond to that.
Once members start to ask where the billions went, and demands answers, then what?

What if most of the members of SGI realized that SGI global is making millions in stock investment funds, many of which contain holding of companies that sell weapons of war and death?
SGI and Ikeda can't try to play dumb on that.
It exposes the fraud of his "peacenik" image he tries to sell to the idealistic SGI followers.
Ikeda knows religion is the opium of the masses, and he is a warrior general, who knows you have to sell the people what they want to buy, and deceive them.
That is why he uses propaganda to try and link himself with Gandhi, when in fact Ikeda is a capitalist billionaire investor, using SGI as a front.
Ikeda is a realist, not an idealist. He knows if you want to make money in investments, then you invest where the profits are.
And you sell the people what they want to buy...
And never the twain may meet.
Its old-school leadership, you lie to the masses, and do your real business in secret, as the masses can't handle the truth.

So once the public gets educated to the very standard mass persuasion and manipulation techniques being used by SGI Ikeda, then they stop working.

Probably all SGI-USA can do is try to use FEAR on members, and tell them that the "internet" will harm them. But anyone with basic horse sense can see exactly what is going on, simply by reading this thread.
It appears this thread has become a spontaneous tool of self-extraction from sects like SGI, created by a group of people just doing their research and critical thinking.

And SGI can't do anything about it.
Maybe some SGI-USA bigwigs...will try looking in the mirror, and start telling people the truth?
Maybe some SGI financial documents will start leaking out...

Shavoy welcome!!! Half a century and you awoke! It is never too late to help both yourself and your fellow man out of the thickets of the SGI "Ikeda is a lamp unto me" pseudo-Buddhist cult. I salute you. Also, anticult, excellent observations. SGI and Mitsubichi are inextricably related and SGI is one of its largest stockholders. They make missle and fighter jet navigation guidance systems.

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2011 10:10PM by Nichijew.

Thank you muchly, Nichijew!!! I always enjoy reading what's on your mind! I also agree with you on The Anticult's latest posts. It all keeps the jaw dropped.

Ya know, one of the things that made sense to me when I started was the Cause and Effect thing. Good Cause = Good Effect, Bad Cause = Bad Effect. I know that sounds simplistic. But still....I've thought a lot lately that this fundamental tenet spares noone...except possibly, Mr. Ikeda...these are some baddddddd causes...playing sincere, good-hearted people for lowly fools----to me, that's one of the lowest of the lows. I'm sure he's not worried about his next life, though....not at all.

Another observation that has been sticking.....For the longer-time members---remember when the WT had Letters to the Editor? I think the Seikyo Times as well....This was in the mid-90's. People had a lot to say and it was great, because party-line fractures were spilling out regularly......then it was wiped off the WT landscape--Boom!


Gee, no wonders why here.....

Cheers, Shavoy

@Shavoy who wrote, "one of the things that made sense to me when I started was the Cause and Effect thing. Good Cause = Good Effect, Bad Cause = Bad Effect. I know that sounds simplistic. But still....I've thought a lot lately that this fundamental tenet spares no one...except possibly, Mr. Ikeda...these are some baddddddd causes...playing sincere, good-hearted people for lowly fools----to me, that's one of the lowest of the lows." Welcome. Wow you were with SGI for about 50 years. I can see how. I was in for over 20 and could have gone on forever had the MDM not gotten to me. Like you said, "But the choking suffocation of M/D has opened the nostrils...and it's not a pleasant smell." Sometimes I wish it had turned out differently. Plenty in the organization, not just the leaders, seem to like things the way they are. Does that mean they are brainwashed? I don't have an easy answer. I know how Anticult would answer, but Anticult never benefitted from the positive aspects of SGI as some of us did. He wrote, "Its only a matter of time, that the cracks in the foundation of SGI start to open up, and the entire SGI structure will start to collapse. Once members start to think about the SPECIFIC PERSUASION TECHNIQUES that are being used on them by SGI, it destroys the entire system." Hm. I would not count on that because it overlooks the needs that membership/participation provides to the members. I do agree that forums like this must be difficult for organizations like SGI to handle but these threads will only have a positive effect. I hope anway.The organizations eventually will not be able to ignore them or write them all off without addressing the concerns brought up by those who post. I do wonder now if some of the interested guests and newer members became aware of forums like these and never returned. I suspect that the internet age will not help membership in organizations like SGI.

Dear Doubtful:

Not sure if it was in this thread or in our private conversations, so I won't go into details. Many things you and I failed to overcome or are just now overcoming, things that may have taken us decades to overcome [or not at all], can be directly linked to our association and active participation with the cult. I am sure that had we left the cult after a year or two, we would be enjoying the fruits of our efforts in this threefold world to an extent that we can not even imagine because we stuck it out, hoping upon hope that these things would change because Ikeda and our leaders said they would. Rather than following the Lotus Sutra and the writings of Nichiren, we were following the opinions of others. No longer following the opinions of these unenlightened men, my life is starting to blossom. Wishing others to blossom and a lot sooner than I, I don't spare my voice pointing out the evils of the Ikeda cult. There is not one good thing I can say about them or their leaders in light of my experience and the teachings themselves. There was a man named Vasubandu. He wrote 500 works in praise of the Hinayana teachings. His brother Asanga proved to him the superiority of the Mahayana. So distraught was Vasubandu for leading others astray, he wanted to cut his tongue out. His brother Asanga reproached him, "instead of cutting out your tongue, use your tongue to praise the Mahayana." Vasubandu then wrote 500 treatises in praise of the Mahayana while denouncing the Hinayana. I felt like Vasubandu when I first quit the SGI, like a fool and a perpetrator of falsehoods. Now I spend my time refuting SGI and their leaders and praising the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha, and Nichiren Daishonin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2011 09:07AM by Nichijew.