There is no reason why the information in this mega-thread on SGI, could not be collated into a more organized document, with a basic index and contents.
There are probably online Wiki's that can do just that. It could be done one small step at a time, and be a permanent internet resource.

SGI for LIFERS:
And one thing that is very important, is that modern sects/cults have learned how to do some very powerful things. They have learned the techniques not just hook people into the sects for a few years, or for 10 years...but for L-I-F-E.
Yes, the actual techniques exist, to take the beliefs of the sect, and the sect, and to embed them so deeply into people's psyches, that they stay with the sect for life.
That is the stated goal of many of these groups.

That is the stated goal of SGI. They want you for life.
And they just don't want you for life, they want your family, and your "Fortune Baby". It might sound like a good idea, but what if in fact that delusional idea operated in the opposite way, by creating more psychological stress with that kind of labeling of a baby and person?

But these sects like SGI know, if they can get the kids and teens, and get the hook DEEP into the psyche, many of them are going to stay with SGI for life, even coming and going from time to time.

Why is it that its so hard to just drop SGI, for those involved for years?
Its because SGI knows how to embed SGI deep into the psyche, and has adopted many powerful mental/emotional/social techniques that have become known in the last 20 years to do this.

These sects like SGI now know how to systematically create LIFERS.

@tsukimoto who wrote, "You're told that you get benefit if you "shakabuku," lots of people (get them to join SGI.) So that encourages members to just look at friends and family with the agenda "Get them to join," rather than just enjoying time with them. Yet once the person joins -- quite often nobody pays them any further attention. There's no concern about developing them, helping them to grow in their faith and understanding." I hear you. One of the biggest reliefs I have felt since leaving SGI last June is not feeling the need to get people to join. I never liked that salesman mentality. It rarely worked for me. In fact, often I grew to resent those who simply would not attend a meeting or return or join. I also have to agree that even when people joined (through others, not me) rarely was there any significant interest in them over a long period of time. I always wondered why I was rarely interested in hanging out with them given how social of a person I am. Indeed, with the exception of my first 2 years with the organization, I was not interested in the majority of SGI members I would meet, not just the newbies. Did anyone have a similar experience? Please comment on why you think that might be. In many ways my practice has never been stronger. I am still waiting to miss chanting with others. In fact, after going to youtube, I started chanting "namu" instead of "nam" and I love it. I use both spellings and this has caused my chanting to be more invigorating--just love it! @Evergreen, I am glad that you have made a decision re: the practice & organization that feels right for you. Even when I have thought of joining my district for a toso sometime, I realize it won't work given the way I chant now. Oh well. I don't regret my time with SGI. I just don't want to hear MDM or listen to people suggest that the lives of people who chant (especially with the organization) go better than for those who don't. I constantly meet people who are much better off and more spiritual than many I met in SGI. Therefore I see no proof that this practice with or without the organization guarantees anything. I cannot imagine my life without my practice but I can also see the danger of believing that I have control over people, places, and things. I remain grateful to SGI for introducing me to the practice, but I have serious problems with the message that the organization sends since I believe it has the potential to increase anxiety in members and guests. Many times it is much healthier to accept people and some situations for what they are and instead focus on improving my responses to them. All the MDM, shakubuku, contributions, and RTE participation will not change that fact.

Quote
evergreen
Hi everyone its been a while since I posted. Most of you probably don't know me cause I don't post often. And for those that did post long ago I'm sure you remember me. I have started chanting again. My agenda for my own life is to bring peace and stabilitly to myself and my family. Right now I am practicing shoju not shakubuku. I stopped posting on this board for a lot of reasons. Thanks be to those who supported me.

BTW NICHIJEW this is considered ONSHITSU, but I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE ONE OF THE MOST NARCISISSTIC MEN I HAVE EVER HAD the pleasure of debating with on this forum. For F---K SAKE your own narcisisstic agenda is to promote your "my way or the highway" agenda. When you chant daimoku with that kind of arrongance in your heart the ONLY benefit you are going to receive is MORE ARROGANCE.

Anyway, I digress. I am going to be the change I wish to see in the organization. When and if I choose.

I follow THE LAW and not THE PERSON.

So, I hope everyone has a great year. You can choose to private message me should you so desire.

PEACE and HAPPINESS to all of you as you will be in my prayers every morning and evening.

EVERGREEN

"The path to Buddhahood is not to be found in the Kegon doctrine of the phenomenal world as created by the mind alone, in the eight negations of the Sanron sect, in the Consciousness-Only doctrine of the Hosso sect, or in the Shingon type of meditation on the five elements of the universe. Only the T’ien-t’ai doctrine of the three thousand realms in a single moment of life is the path to Buddhahood. Even in the case of this doctrine of the three thousand realms in a single moment of life, we do not possess the kind of wisdom and understanding to comprehend it fully. Nevertheless, among all the sutras preached by the Buddha during his lifetime, the Lotus Sutra alone contains this jewel which is the doctrine of the three thousand realms in a single moment of life. The doctrines of the other sutras are merely yellow stones that appear to be jewels. They are like sand, from which you can extract no oil no matter how hard you squeeze it, or a barren woman who can never bear a child. Even a wise man cannot become a Buddha through the other sutras, but with the Lotus Sutra, even fools can plant the seeds that lead to Buddhahood. As the sutra passage I have quoted earlier puts it, "Although they do not seek emancipation, emancipation will come of itself." --The Opening of the Eyes or Open Your Eyes

Nichijew the Narcissist



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2011 10:49AM by Nichijew.

Hi Nichijew,

Thank you for referencing that amazing quote. Yesterday you could definitely say I was angry (three thousand realms in a single moment), but I am feeling better today.

evergreen aka OPENING MY EYES EVER WIDER

Evergreen, I must say it is great that you began chanting again. Chanting has been around much longer than the SGI. Yet they want to claim to be the only True Buddhist organization. Currently there are many puppet-masters at the top and they want the local leaders to act just like puppets, doing exactly as they are told without question or thought. They say, "this is the campaign and you must get the members to Participate so that we can achieve this number goal, be it dollar contributions, or # of gohonzon conferrals", etc. Unless you like being a puppet, I highly doubt you will enjoy your association with SGI for long. And what does that campaign really have to do with practicing Buddhism? Once upon a time the 3 ways of practice were taught of faith, practice and study. But the puppet leaders are feeling uncomfortable if people are not constantly talking about Ikeda and all of his accomplishments. That is not what Buddhism is about either. I think he was a great man in his time and inspired many. But he did not do all the building of the SGI in fact Mr. Williams built the original NSA with the help of many, many pioneers members includng the Japanse war brides. So, we cannot sit around and give credit to just President Ikeda. And to think you can practice the law amoungst hundreds of people that are presently way off course, will surely prove to be completely frustrating and fruitless. I'm glad you began chanting again. It's unfortunate that you stopped and that you might associate your Buddhist practice only with the SGI. I have become quite frustrated with the SGI, but it has yet to sway my personal daily practice. For those of us that practice, we should be clear about the basics that should always be our foundation.

Thank you for pointing out that one can chant and practice "true" buddhism without SGI. I think when I broke my ties with SGI at the end of last year I also stopped practising. SGI did not represent, in my opinion, Buddhism. It was definitely about campaigns and Ikeda and that wasn't what I signed up for. So will I practice and chant? I think I will and that gives me total freedom to express myself, practice as much or as little as I like. There will be no requirement to get my quota of newbies signed up. I will not be required to conform. I will not be asked to give financial contribution. I can study true Nichiren Buddhism. I will not be told what I can and cannot do in my own home. I discovered Buddhism many years ago and so it should be. People should not be coerced or be introduced by hard sell into religion or spirituality. I believe we find what we're looking for eventually. SGI has, in my opinion, lost its way and has become bogged down with financial gain and superiority ie. wanting to be THE NUMBER 1 religion in the world and it's increasing in size at an alarming rate. When I'm told that you need to look up to a leader that you have never met in a far off country and give money to an extremely rich organisation that filters up I become highly suspicious. Buddhism for me is gentle, a never ending learning experience and discovery. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo! :)

RE: Hertford 65:

"and has become bogged down with financial gain and superiority ie. wanting to be THE NUMBER 1 religion in the world and it's increasing in size at an alarming rate."

In my opinion there is desperation to gain members and finacial contributions possibly because there are deep financial troubles at this time. They are increasing their numbers yes, but fail horribly at teaching members how to practice and gaining and maintaining members trust so many, many will fall through the cracks and once again be members on paper only.

This is the cycle we've seen again and again. So, now they have revived the old NSA spirit of constant campaigns and meetings in order to rev up the numbers again.

Yes, the independent practice is quite fulfilling without all the organizational shenannigans and stress. I feel closer to Nichiren and his followers with a solid independent personal practice.

Remember that this thread proved that SGI-USA had in excess of 900 million invested in the stock market alone, just to create income for SGI.
This is not counting the probable billions in real estate.
This is not counting the 10's of billions worldwide in assets, owned by SGI.

SGI has money coming out of its ears, and it has for a long time.
What SGI does, is they STARVE the local levels, on purpose. When they set-up a new local center, they don't put any money into it, and that forces locals to donate the property, donate their work hours, then SGI can scream poverty, to get more donations, which go to head-office.

Now it all goes direct to HQ, with bank-deposit, and believe it, that money is CLEARED DAILY, and moved somewhere else.

SGI is rolling in billions and billions of dollars.
And the SGI expenses are minimal, as they don't pay anybody locally, they all work for free. Even the paid employees get minimal wages, and never stop working. Walmart treats its employees much better!

The only people SGI pays well, are their bigshot investment people, and the few senior people at the top.
In fact, SGI has convinced members that they are always broke, and don't have enough money.

When in fact, SGI is actually the richest "cult" in the world.
Name one cultish group with more assets than SGI?
SGI dwarfs TM, and TM is often called the richest cult in the world

As was said by others, the SGI system runs as a "money vampire", which means it sucks all the money to the top, and then that money is controlled by one man.
The Master.
The Billionaire Buddha himself, Ikeda.

Soon, it will be Ikeda II.
SGI is sitting on many billions, and could run for decades just off that. You better believe that SGI will refuse to put ONE DOLLAR back into the local groups, they force them to product profit, and send it upstream.

Hi backnforth (hi tsuki :))

Just wanted to thank you for your observation. I am not entering the cult again. I am there to check it out and one day build my own empire.....bad joke. Yes I am watching my way. But the wonderful thing about this whole process is that I have started to chant in a way that I never did before. My life has become amazing. I really appreciate being able to renew my vow as a bodhisattva of the earth each day in my family and my community.

Lots of love

evergreen

I just thought about some issues the other day. We often pointed out the somewhat dysfunctional family situations some members had at home – mainly leaders.
I often wondered about that typical viscous cycle taking place in life according to SGI.
One is thought to care for fellow members (which at first sight sounds honourable). When looking back did any of you guys never thought that some members overdo the 'caring for others issue' to the extent that they disrespect their own lives? Its as if some of them think that 'caring' for others will make their own problems disappear, as if being in a constant 'helping mode' will be followed by a miraculous reward.
I pointed out those issues now and again in past messages but it just seems to come together now.
In some cases the 'problems' and 'issues' some members had were quite trivial, but never the less leaders would bathe them with attention. In a very sick sense SGI-Ideology is not designed at all to make one become happy at all, as a degree of unhappiness and unresolved issues makes sure you will stick to SGI.