Quote
Nichijew
“If we truly wish to reach this point, we must read President Ikeda’s guidance repeatedly. We must get to the point where we can’t distinguish between our own speech and action and what we would do if we were the SGI President. It’s incorrect for us to put our opinions about how to behave over what we believe President Ikeda would do. It’s *even worse* to act *without thinking* about *what President Ikeda would do*. This is not acting as a disciple.” -- Some stupid SGI Vice President

I remember when I was in SGI, I was told that I did not have to become someone else to attain enlightenment. I could do it as the person I actually was. I also remember leaders quoting the gosho about all the different flowers -- how they all had their own beauty and none was better than the other. The leaders interpreted that as: our differences, all the different kinds of people in SGI, were what made SGI great.

Well, Nichiren may have said that, but apparently, he meant the opposite of what he said.. actually, members must become clones of President Ikeda. God forbid that a member should actually try to think for himself or herself.

Quote
tsukimoto

Quote
Nichijew
“If we truly wish to reach this point, we must read President Ikeda’s guidance repeatedly. We must get to the point where we can’t distinguish between our own speech and action and what we would do if we were the SGI President. It’s incorrect for us to put our opinions about how to behave over what we believe President Ikeda would do. It’s *even worse* to act *without thinking* about *what President Ikeda would do*. This is not acting as a disciple.” -- Some stupid SGI Vice President

I remember when I was in SGI, I was told that I did not have to become someone else to attain enlightenment. I could do it as the person I actually was. I also remember leaders quoting the gosho about all the different flowers -- how they all had their own beauty and none was better than the other. The leaders interpreted that as: our differences, all the different kinds of people in SGI, were what made SGI great.

Well, Nichiren may have said that, but apparently, he meant the opposite of what he said.. actually, members must become clones of President Ikeda. God forbid that a member should actually try to think for himself or herself.

Dear Tsukimoto:

If you read the blogs of the SGI leaders in Singapore and Malaysia, for example, they sound exactly like Shinichi Yamamoto in the Human Revolution. It strikes me as funny and bizarre at the same time. It is easy to talk and act like Ikeda but very difficult to talk and act as Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren.

Mark



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2010 12:50PM by Nichijew.

Quote
tsukimoto

At this time, I had a sudden medical crisis. It was truly a blessing in disguise! The recovery period forced me to rest a lot -- and think about my life. It made me realize that life is short -- and can end at any moment, even if you think you are relatively young and healthy. I saw no point in wasting any more of this short and precious life doing something that I didn't believe in.

Tsukimoto, im starting to think this as well. if i had not sunk as low as i did in my depression, i believe i never would have reevaluated what i really believed and therefore, would just be continuing the status quo without question. but now that i know how easily one can lose this life, im starting to see everthing in a different light! i may be able to continue on and do what i can for "kosen rufu", but how long before the truth of how i am feeling comes out and shatters this SGI life ive created for myself?

adapting is what i do best, and i really can keep things the way they are for as long as i need to. but at what cost? another bout of depression or mental breakdown?

ugh sorry to be so negative. i promise to only post positive things from now on haha. thanks all!!

Dear Chooselife,

no need to apologise at all. Most of us went through a similar experience. That is the reason we come together here. To let you know that what your are going through is in no way abnormal, not your fault and that there IS a life after SGI.

Hello everyone! I have been following up this forum for about two months now, and I finally finished reading all the posts (only omitting a few) just yesterday. I didn’t want to make the decision of posting without reading the whole forum.

Although I wasn’t born into this practice, my mom started chanting when I was a toddler. My first Gakkai activities started with Future Division, and this is the only religion that I’ve ever known my whole life.

There’s so much that I wanted to say, and now I don’t even know where to start. First of all, I want to let you know that I have yet to quit SGI officially, and I hope this won’t be a problem for my first post here to go through. Please understand that quitting can be very difficult for some people, especially for someone who was brought up in this practice, and whose families are somewhat of a hardcore SGI member. (leaders ranging from group to chapter level)

I want to say that I can empathize with what ‘chooselife’ said in p.258. I was a district leader when I stopped going to activities and started avoiding members for the first time, which was a couple years ago. I too felt an immense guilt of having ‘abandoned’ my members, but I just couldn’t bring myself to pretend anymore. I needed a break from all the activities, that’s what I thought. I thought it was all me, that there was nothing wrong with the organization, and that it was my own problem.

I didn’t dare to tell any of my non-SGI friends that I wasn’t going to activities anymore because I didn’t want anyone to think negatively about SGI. The reason why I wanted to avoid painting a negative picture of SGI was because I thought that the fault was entirely mine that I wanted to get away from the activities.

I didn’t want to become a ‘leader’. I was already helping as much as I could without the leader position. Gosho studies, discussion meetings, calling members, behind-the-scene duties, helping with presentations, etc., you name it. To be honest, it felt good to help without feeling the pressure of being ‘officially responsible’, and it was easy to just do whatever my leaders asked me to do without any critical thinking.

After my area leader asked me to take the district position, I consulted my mom. She told me that members in SGI have been nurturing me and helping me all these years, and that it was time for me to reciprocate with gratitude. She also told me that only a fool would pass up this opportunity to ‘learn and grow’, and that it was my ‘mission’ to assume this responsibility. And oh, my mom also told me that if I made it difficult for the seniors/leaders to ‘guide’ me on the path of practicing, the karmic effect will be that when it is time for me ‘guide’ the other members that I care about, they will also make it a hard time for me to do my job.

So I accepted. I thought I was only being immature and slacking off for not wanting to be a leader. After accepting this appointment, I put a lot of pressure on myself because to me, a leader is not someone who’s superior and to be bowed to. On the contrary, a leader should be humbly serving the members’ needs, and to be attentive to members’ feelings. Struggling with school and also living alone, adding the SGI activities and responsibilities, it really drained me emotionally. On top of that, in my mind I always blamed myself for not being stronger.

Anyway, I should probably continue this topic some other time. Like ‘choolife’, I also don’t like emitting negativity to other people, be it in real life or on the Internet, because I don’t wanna be the one who affects people’s mood. To make my story a little bit shorter, I’ve practiced with SGI in more than two different countries. The first time that I stopped going to activities was about one year after I became a district leader, and it lasted for about a year or two. It was not too hard to cut off contact with SGI people because I’d just moved to a new neighbourhood and stopped using phone and e-mail altogether, and I stopped contact with anyone including my own family. My family and my mom were living in another country so there was virtually no one to influence my decision.

Now I’ve moved to live with my family, so it sometimes feels like I’m being monitored by my mom, whose only friends are SGI members. She encouraged me to resume activities, thinking it would be helpful to my self esteem and depression. I went to some of the activities, but now I wanna find a way to phase it out.

I don’t like the way the SGI people in this country work. They revere the top level leaders. There are different dress codes varying with small activities like discussion meetings and big activities like the World Peace Gongyo. They mention and emphasize ‘Mentor-Disciple Relationship’ in nearly every meeting (I remember up until five years ago leaders in the other country where I used to live would only mention MDR occasionally, but apparently they’ve changed too while I was gone, according to the Internet research I did this week). They whoop out pep talk cheering in unison almost every meeting, especially in youth activities. All these make me uncomfortable, but my mom says it’s only cultural differences, and that the discomfort that I’m experiencing is merely culture clash. It’ll go with time.

One of my siblings is a chapter leader and feels competitive toward me with regard to who is the more devoted member. There are occasions when my sibling doesn’t wanna go to the meetings but I would still be openly criticized if I don’t chant or attend meetings. It’s almost as if I am making my family look bad by not attending meetings.

I find philosophy fascinating, but my mom is worried that too much philosophy would make me think too much about faith (SGI) and as a result go astray. She thinks the most fortunate people are the ones who have faith and accept the correct teaching simple-mindedly. What appears to be intellect and critical thinking to me would quite possibly be a disguise of my own prejudices and self-centeredness. I know she means well, but sometimes I feel like she is forcing down my throat what she thinks is medicine but in fact is poison.

I apologize for the long post. I’ve lost my coherence because I was interrupted by my mom several times. It took me three hours to finish this post. This has been a very painful realization that SGI is not for me. I just hope I will find the courage to leave, and my family won’t be torn by my departure. There is already enough drama in my family.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

@MiaPicher

has terrifically summarized much of how these sects hook people in for so long...

- don't think, just believe harder. Let the Dear Leader do the thinking.
- deep family involvements, inducing guilt, competition inside the family
- get the kids while they are young, and you can keep them for life.
- never criticize the sect to outsider.
- push people into Leadership positions, where they do the unpaid work of the company.
- keep them busy with busy work, with no time to think, so they are exhausted.
- enforce the sects hierarchy


Its all carefully designed by the Deal Leader and his brain-trust. Its a plan to mass-engineer the behavior and life of thousands of SGI members. Other large sects do similar things.

FOR SURE – MiaPicher ...............
I was in another country when I picked up the practices without SG/NS or any of the trappings - This was a good thing because I was well imbedded in the Buddhist teachings - so when all of this stuff with IKEDA and Ikedaism got started – and not being indoctrinated @ the beginning of my practice I and some others thought some of the members were little zealots for Ikeda… SO I see your frustration my kids were up in the ranks of SGI and when SGI got to Ikedaism one of my kids @ a Sr. Leaders meeting said this isn’t Nichiren – this is a spinoff this is Ikedaism!! My kid walked off and has never gone back! My other also doesn’t go to SGI meetings because of the Ikeda worship – as GOD like being! Both still practice Nichiren teachings and practice – so I have always known that you didn’t need an organization to practice (I and others did it for years) – some however yes you do need SGI! My response is what was the organization called that supported members back in the day when Nichiren was around? This SGI organization got its foot in the door telling members that SGI was here for the members and to support members practice (or so we were told) – Hum times are a changing!

@MiaPicher

I'm so sorry you're going through this painful time. It hurts to know you're having these thoughts but if they were public, feelings would get hurt. I also realize how much harder it must be for you because of the family implications as well! I only have one close friend that practices, and he's my sponsor. All my other friends I have met within the last year, so even though it would be hard to leave, at least they're not family. My heart goes out to you and how hard this must be.

What I can't stand the most is the whole "accept blindly and you will be happy!" rhetoric. I was literally on wikipedia last night reading about Buddhism because in the past couple of years ive been in this practice there is still SO much i dont know! my husband got me a beginner's intro to buddhism book from the library today because im pretty ignorant about the religion i claim. however, i DO know exactly what Mr. Toda said to Mr. Ikeda about "dreaming of Mexico", i know how old Ikeda was when he got married, that he has 300 honorary degrees, and that he loves photography. WHICH ONE OF THESE EXPLAINS WHAT THE HELL MAHAYANA BUDDHISM IS? all im ever told is that it is my great fortune to go to meetings, and to encourage others to go, to get happy thru oneness of mentor and disciple, and to chant. i just really want to know why. and as far as i know, i passed that study exam. stilllllll confused.

I think emancipation in itself is something we have to fight for. I know it will be hard once i finally get the courage to leave, and harder still afterwards, but i know that once i do, i will have something that i will never let go of, and thats freedom. the freedom to think, the freedom to learn, the freedom to do what i want on a sunday, instead of calling people who dont want to hear from me about meetings they dont want to go to.

seriously, i am trying to be more positive! i swear!

@ MiaPicher,

I understand how difficult it must be for you to think differently from your family. Take it easy and keep reading here, your mind is your own, as are your choices and decisions. There is a lot of sanity in these threads and, as cyclops has said, you don't need an organisation to practice being a decent person.
There are, anyway, better organisations out there.
Take care of yourself first right now.

MiaPicher, thank you for sharing your experiences! I read your post and thought at many points, "Oh, I felt that way too!" I felt that I was slacking and immature when I didn't want a leadership position, I never felt comfortable with the reverence paid to leaders and the pep talk cheering, and despite all that, I still found it hard to quit SGI.

One thing that I've noticed in many posts, not only yours, is that posters apologize for being "negative" -- ie, criticizing SGI. When I was in the Soka Gakkai, leaders made it sound like that was one of the worst things you could do, criticizing or complaining about SGI. You were "negative," and you were bound to have terrible karma as a result.
The message couldn't have been clearer -- you don't have the right to criticize or question SGI.

And yet, I have to ask, why not? Look at some of the things that many of us have experienced, or have seen someone else experience:

--We are told that if we join SGI, we can practice true Buddhism, and yet SGI is stating things that contradict the teachings of Nichiren, like Mentor/Disciple. Publications, and meetings are taken up with praise of Ikeda, rather than discussion of Shakyamuni, Nichiren, the Lotus Sutra, or the Gosho. In the 1990's, SGI leaders vilified the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood for saying that enlightenment came from the high priest -- enlightenment came from chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo! So how come SGI is claiming NOW that enlightenment comes from taking Ikeda as your mentor!?

--Members are pressured, guilted and manipulated into doing a great deal of unpaid labor for SGI, and yet have no say in how the organization is run.

--SGI owns valuable real estate, and businesses and holds extensive financial investments -- and yet pressures members who are living from paycheck to paycheck to give donations. SGI refuses to account for where that money goes. SGI-USA claims to be a nonprofit organization, but doesn't follow the rules for nonprofits in the U.S. (using the money for political activities, posting IRS 990 forms.)

--SGI Japan members are pressured to support the Komeito Party. Members are told that they must vote for, work for, and donate money to Komeito Party candidates. SGI Japan has the reputation of harassing people who criticize the organization or choose to leave it.

--SGI does things in a sneaky way, for example, opening a charter school, the SOKA Academy in Massachusetts, with no mention of its SGI/Komeito connections.

--SGI-USA has harassed and excluded members who have criticized or questioned SGI's actions, or who have asked for change. (Wendy Byrd Ehlmann, the IRG members.) SGI has also shut down websites critical of SGI -- for example, Lisa Jones's www.buddhajones.com.

--If people question any of this, they're told that the problem is them -- that it's lack of faith, fundamental darkness, or ego. It could never be that SGI is wrong about anything. Oh, no, never, not SGI!

So I have to ask -- IS discussing all of these issues negativity -- or is it simply telling the truth, telling truths that SGI would rather deny? The reality is, SGI has been dishonest with members. It has used and manipulated sincere members. If some former members are angry, it's understandable. Anger is a reasonable response to being deceived, manipulated, taken advantage of. Sure, you don't want to be consumed with bitterness and resentment for years -- that hurts you, rather than SGI. However, I think that jumping to forgive someone who's hurt you -- and denying your hurt and anger -- is not healthy either. In SGI, I felt that I had to be positive all the time, especially about SGI, regardless of how I really felt. I kept pushing down my feeling of "Something is not right," and denied that I felt and saw what I was really feeling and seeing. That is very unhealthy! Finding this site and being able to finally express my anger and frustration with SGI was a great relief. It is freeing, and very healing, to finally find somewhere to talk honestly about the SGI experience. It's true that there are many good, well-intentioned people in SGI -- it is also true that there are many negative aspects to the SGI organization.