Findingmywaytoday FOR SURE – All I can say is that the opening of my eyes was when the Youth Div. was being force feed that Ikeda was their mentor or better their (MASTER) – This programming was so not Buddhist practice but Ikedaism. Now on to other important matters – On chanting – I have been chanting for 30+ years and still do because it gives me a focus on my life condition it works for me I chanted prior to joining SGI and still chant – On the Gohonzon - it’s a focal point for you to use to help you elevate your life condition – Now you can use it for that purpose fine, I practice for years without one and did quite nicely. If you feel uncomfortable with the Gohonzon then I would say please for your own sake remove it! Chanting you may try and focus on your life condition and nothing more – If this works for you then you may want to keep chanting – All I can say is it works for me! Please take care and I wish you all the best in your journey to enlightenment. : )

Findingmyway today:

I will echo Cyclops just a little bit. I've chanted since 1984, never missed a day. Only in the last 3 years or so I've realized that the SGI is far removed from what Nichiren intended and most of their activities are unrelated to a Buddhist practice and geared to grow the organization and gain revenue.

I'm not sure how much you might have studied the Lotus Sutra, the Gosho or other writings on your own. I recommend you do that 'as you're finding your way' and see if you really need to remove chanting from your life. You say it helped your motivation. Over time, you might be able to find peace about the SGI - for me, I realize, on the one hand, the members helped me find this teaching, on the other hand, I have grown beyond it and it seems quite elementary now.

But people get motivation from other areas too; there is exercise such as yoga, tai-chi, martial arts etc. or various clubs to join depending on your area. But if the chanting calls you, answer the phone!! Good luck.

Vibrant gongyo and daimoku gave the SGI-UK Student Division kick-off
meeting a great start, writes Tarun Khetarpal. Sensei’s response via his
message and gift of refreshments were received within a day of us informing
him of the meeting, showing the concern he has for each of us. The new
Student Division members were welcomed and we sang the European
Student Division song, Shining Stars of Hope. New appointments were
announced for Student Division representatives across the UK and the theme
for the meeting, Youth, Let’s Open a Great Road to Victory, was introduced.
The 42nd Headquarters Leaders Meeting was screened; Sensei did not
attend, indicating the importance of his disciples taking full responsibility
for Kosen-rufu from this moment on. It is now time to live true to the
guidance that he has given us all his life and make his dream of achieving
world-wide Kosen-rufu come true. The two experiences shared at our kickoff
showed the true spirit of a disciple, the spirit of being a lion’s cub. The
perseverance shown by members in their academic lives moved the hearts of
one and all. A group photo was also taken to be sent to Sensei. Lisa Cowan,
SGI-UK Young Women’s Division leader, lectured on The Three Kinds of
Treasure. We learned that the heart of the Buddha, or the mentor, is the
heart that constantly seeks the happiness of self and others. We were all
encouraged to report magnificent victories. The kick-off ended with a lion’s
roar gongyo. Straight after the meeting, we reported to Sensei on its success.


I copied this from one of SGI UK latest bulletins! Interesting how the Buddha and the mentor are now seen as the same thing!

Quote
TheVoid
Vibrant gongyo and daimoku gave the SGI-UK Student Division kick-off meeting a great start, writes Tarun Khetarpal. Sensei’s response via his message and gift of refreshments were received within a day of us informing
him of the meeting, showing the concern he has for each of us....the theme for the meeting, Youth, Let’s Open a Great Road to Victory, was introduced. The 42nd Headquarters Leaders Meeting was screened; Sensei did not
attend, indicating the importance of his disciples taking full responsibility for Kosen-rufu from this moment on. ..... We learned that the heart of the Buddha, or the mentor, is the heart that constantly seeks the happiness of self and others. We were all encouraged to report magnificent victories. The kick-off ended with a lion’s roar gongyo. Straight after the meeting, we reported to Sensei on its success.

I copied this from one of SGI UK latest bulletins! Interesting how the Buddha and the mentor are now seen as the same thing!

Thanks, TheVoid! So Sensei is still providing the Kool-aid -- and the members are still drinking it. As for Ikeda's and the Buddha's hearts being seen as the same thing....well, that's actually been going on for a few decades. This is from www.fraughtwithperil.com, the Kempon Hokke blog:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[fraughtwithperil.com]

...in the middle 70's ikeda was scolded by the high priest for being referred to as the new buddha by the leaders and members in the soka gakkai. ikeda, was given guidance to correct the attitude. this was the beginning of the rift between nst and the gakkai which matured as time went on. looking back, this is when , in my opinion, ikeda began to think himself more important than the teachings. this could happen , (not because of nst) but because, he and they, from the start, were not grounded in the correct faith. in the early 80's, i began to notice , strange behavior in ikeda and also in many of the things that he said regarding nichirens buddhism. still, he was my guy and he could do no wrong. i noticed around that time the emphasis on non buddhist stuff began to grow. also the gakkai had become a very wealthy org. , anyway, i believe it was around this time he had lost his faith in the teachings of nichiren, not to mention the lotus sutra. by the time he got the boot from nst and he got rid of mr. williams, he was free to start his own religion. which i think he had long cherished. as the old saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 06:23AM by tsukimoto.

FOR SURE – Looking back in the day – for me when I started in the 70’s I was practicing Nichiren Buddhism without the SG. When looking back it was the most informative years of my practice – in the 80’s I got into the SGI and right away a lot of the members were awestruck with IKEDA and Ikedaism – not being indoctrinated @ the beginning of my practice I and some others thought some of the members were little zealots for Ikeda… Fast forwarded I can see where this train was heading (hindsight is always 20/20) – I agree big red flag when he took on the Priesthood something was not quite right call it a gut feeling – but here we be. All I can do is practice the way that my Masters had taught me. They were very wise men – who were well founded in Buddhist teachings @ that time I thought it was the norm in practice – however IKEDA has proven me wrong – very wrong in this regard. I instead have Always follow the LAW and never the PERSON.

If you search Google for - SGI cult - these threads are result #4.

Keep up the good work of posting, many people questioning SGI will find there way here very easily.

Also, people can post links to this thread from other websites, that helps as well.

Quote
TheVoid
Lisa Cowan,
SGI-UK Young Women’s Division leader, lectured on The Three Kinds of
Treasure. We learned that the heart of the Buddha, or the mentor, is the
heart that constantly seeks the happiness of self and others. We were all
encouraged to report magnificent victories. The kick-off ended with a lion’s
roar gongyo. Straight after the meeting, we reported to Sensei on its success.

I copied this from one of SGI UK latest bulletins! Interesting how the Buddha and the mentor are now seen as the same thing!

This makes me feel ill. I went to a big SGI-UK Student Division meeting less than 4 years ago, to be honest I can't remember if the Ikeda-ism was as strong or obvious, but I highly doubt it.

The ascension of Ikeda has definitely went up a gear for the UK. I still speak with some young SGI members here in the UK, I wonder if they even think about the stuff they are hearing, or if they are just on autopilot like I was?

Either way, SGI-UK has nailed its colours to the mast, hopefully more of my former 'friends' will see the truth.

Is it up to me to help them, or should I let them get there on their own?

Quote
Findingmywaytoday
Hello, sorry I only write every few months or so. This year has been really interesting for me. A year ago at this time, I was fairly gung-ho about the SGI. I did have my doubts after 4 years of practicing, but it seemed easy to overlook them when I supposedly had a "high life condition". I was able to overlook some of the weirdness of the organziation, and even embraced it. It wasn't until a co-leader became really pushy with me about Rock the Era, that I started to realize that these people were not really friends. I never talked to anyone else about my practice. I only talked about SGI to people in the SGI, and because of this, my life became only SGI. Now that I have stepped away, and my eyes are opening, I have been working on building my life back up, slowly becoming friends with non-SGI people, etc.

I haven't been chanting, and I feel fine with that. I became weirded out when everything was so centered about Daisaku Ikeda as my mentor. I know many of us have felt the same way perhaps.

If there is one thing I do miss about the organization (and I believe I can find this elsewhere, I am just not sure yet) is the motivated feeling I had about my life when I chanted. I did believe anything was possible. I want this feeling back, but I don't want to chant. I don't believe I have to chant because I see many people who are motivated and don't chant at all, or even know what the SGI is.

I also feel like I want to not have a Gohonzon anymore because I feel so disappointed in those who lead me down the SGI path. I feel hurt, and betrayed in some ways. I don't want to be reminded or tempted anymore. Who can I talk to to help me with my feelings. I have been in therapy to help me with other issues, but I don't even know where to begin in talking about the SGI? I used to chant about things to help me about my life. Now where do I turn when I need help and guidance and it is in regards to the SGI. It has been very confusing to me, please help me if you can. Has anyone been through deprogramming for the SGI? Where did you go?

Hi,

Its nice to see you post again. :)

I know exactly what you mean about 'missing the motivation you had when you chanted'. I stopped chanting shortly after finding out the truth about SGI. At first it was kind of scary to be 'without the power of chanting.' I think this is because I had become so dependant on chanting and SGI teachings to give me a deeper purpose in life, which in turn was the basic foundation for the motivation for everything I did in life.

That is a big hole to fill.

I tried chanting on my own, and also looked into other Nichiren practices, but (perhaps like yourself) it all just reminded me too much of SGI. Which is a real shame because I honestly believe most other Nichiren schools are fine organisations with deep and meaningful teachings and practices.
But it just wasn't for me.

You said you feel 'dissapointed with those who lead you down the path to SGI', I struggled with this myself a lot, I still do in fact. But if anything you should pity those people, no matter how happy and arrogant they seem on the outside, they are trapped in SGI's tricks and mind games on the inside. Deep down, they must be very unhappy and confused. Its a regular struggle for me to feel sympathy for some people however.

You asked 'who can I go to for help with reagards to SGI'. My honest answer would be, I don't think there is anyone in 'general society'. Its not really a 'big problem' (as there are not very many people affected by SGI in the West) so there isn't a lot of 'mainstream' help.
One thing which did help me though was doing things like participating in this forum, and participating in other 'former SGI' and 'Non-SGI Nichiren Group' forums online.
Speaking to people and learning from each other in a personal way really helped me. We can't expect much from 'outsiders' (I don't use that term in a bad way) - meaning people who have never been in SGI. Most people can't imagine how deeply the SGI ideas of 'not-chanting guilt' and 'karma superstition' affect your mind.
The only thing I found which could remove them form my mind effectively were time and patience. It took over 6 months for me to get rid of my bad feelings and worries that 'something bad would happen' because I'm not chanting.
I can say from personal experience that nothing bad happened at all. In fact my life has been wonderful and transformative in many ways since I left SGI. :)

Its still hard sometimes though. But thats what this forum, and others, are here for.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 05:26AM by DavidM.

Quote
Findingmywaytoday

If there is one thing I do miss about the organization (and I believe I can find this elsewhere, I am just not sure yet) is the motivated feeling I had about my life when I chanted. I did believe anything was possible. I want this feeling back, but I don't want to chant. I don't believe I have to chant because I see many people who are motivated and don't chant at all, or even know what the SGI is.

I also feel like I want to not have a Gohonzon anymore because I feel so disappointed in those who lead me down the SGI path. I feel hurt, and betrayed in some ways. I don't want to be reminded or tempted anymore. Who can I talk to to help me with my feelings. I have been in therapy to help me with other issues, but I don't even know where to begin in talking about the SGI? I used to chant about things to help me about my life. Now where do I turn when I need help and guidance and it is in regards to the SGI. It has been very confusing to me, please help me if you can. Has anyone been through deprogramming for the SGI? Where did you go?

Findingmywaytoday, I remember feeling the same way. I too was once a loyal SGI member, and I struggled with the decision to leave. When I finally did leave, I felt angry, betrayed, and anxious. I'd joined because I was interested in Buddhism and wanted to learn more about it. I was going through relationship and job problems and wanted to find a way to change my life. I wanted to help others. I loved the idea of having a Sangha, a community of people who were looking for the same thing that I was. I threw myself into activities, study and chanting; I followed my leaders' guidance. And what did I get? Mentor/disciple! Membership in a personality cult to a rich narcissist, a chance to work my tail off to make a billionaire richer! Who'd have joined if they'd known that?

SGI DID betray us -- and I think it's entirely reasonable to be angry...just don't get stuck in anger for years, as it will hurt you, not SGI.

After leaving, I wished for someone to talk to about the Soka Gakkai. I really couldn't find anyone other than the people on this forum. Friends and family who had never been in SGI really didn't understand it. SGI members are going to tell you to come back -- what else would they say? I didn't think a therapist would understand my experiences in SGI. I don't know any deprogrammers.

I muddled through on my own. This forum helped me a lot, this thread especially. I have also gotten a lot out of the "Recovery" and the "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements" forums. Even reading about other sects and groups helped -- whether a group is Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, secular.....certain kinds of groups use a lot of the same tricks to manipulate people! You can read about some other group and say, "Oh! I know that trick! SGI used it too!"

Who can you go to for guidance? Therapists, friends, family members sometimes can make helpful suggestions or help you be clearer about what you want. Would your therapist be willing to read some of this thread, or some of the background material on the Rick Ross archives to better understand what you're dealing with? And really -- why not trust your own judgement? This is the game SGI and other cults play -- to make you feel that you can't trust your own judgement. They want to make you dependent on the organization -- can't have members actually thinking for themselves! They might see through the organization's BS, and then where would the organization be? I did get guidance a few times when I was in SGI -- and it just left me with a bad feeling. The guidance just did not feel right. I thought that my leaders knew more about my life than I did. Well, they didn't, and why did I expect that they would?

Awhile back, I read some SGI website with experiences -- and it made me long to go back to SGI! The urge passed, after a day or so. It can be very tempting -- the notion that you can chant and overcome anything. It's a seductive fantasy, but is it really true? Are SGI members, as a whole, REALLY more successful and happy than people who have never been in SGI? No. As you've noticed, there are many successful and motivated people who don't even know about SGI, and some SGI members get so caught up in SGI that they don't have, or make time to work for their goals.

One woman who posted here mentioned writing an experience for an SGI publication -- and the publishers changed her experience. Members may exaggerate how bad their problem was -- or exaggerate their accomplishments -- in order to make an experience sound better. Maybe they give the chanting credit for something that might have happened without it. It was really all the studying, not the daimoku, that brought their grades up. The illness would have eventually run its course anyway. A few years can change a rebellious teenager into an independent, sensible, and considerate young adult. Accidents, death, illness, and lay-offs happen to even the most dedicated Soka Gakkai members.

If you're in an organization like SGI, your thinking does get manipulated in certain ways, without you even realizing it. I was shocked to discover this after I left SGI. I thought that while I was in, I questioned things and didn't buy into SGI-think. And yet after I left....I found I had a lot of SGI-think stuck in my head. I feared that bad things would happen to me because I left -- and criticized SGI. I worried that I wouldn't be able to maintain the positive changes I'd made in my life without SGI. So much of my time had been taken up by chanting or SGI activities -- what was I going to do without SGI? I spent so much time with SGI members -- wasn't it going to be lonely without them?

What I've discovered in the past few years? I'm capable of making good decisions, without guidance from leaders. I can set goals and achieve them. I've criticized SGI, and nothing disastrous has happened to me. The people that I knew in SGI were not my real friends. I enjoy having more free time to pursue my own interests -- and to spend time with people who care about me, not just what I can be persuaded to do for SGI. It feels so freeing to live without the guilt and fear that SGI promotes in its members.

None of this happened overnight...it took time. Posting in this thread helped me so much. Reading different forums and threads on this website helps. Writing always helps me see my life more clearly. I think that just the passage of time helps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 10:01AM by tsukimoto.

just wanted to say that the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA) has conferences and such on their website from time to time (www.icsa.org). I found their workshops helpful. I met other people from all kinds of cults and we definitely had more similarities than not. I have not found a more helpful resource than our discussion on this site as far as former SGI members supporting one another. my therapist have said things to me over the years like "your daughter will benefit from being exposed to Buddhism." I tried to tell her that it was a cult, not Buddhism . I don't know if she bought it.

as for the synopsis of the last UK meeting - gag me with a spoon (did members from outside the US learn valley girl speak?) !!!!!