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SGBye
Doubtful, it's puzzling to me that you find it hard to accept that Ikeda demands all the credit that he gets. This man puts his name on everything associated with the SGI. The Ikeda/King/Gandhi exhibit wasn’t organized by the members out of their pure love for Ikeda , unbeknownst to him. It was an official SGI exhibit, so of course he commissioned it. And we’ve all seen the condescending and humiliating ways he treats the leaders under him on the videos. Ikeda’s an egomaniac whose quest and hunger for power is insatiable. I personally believe that it’s him running/dictating the whole show.

SGI is so top-down, there is no way that anything is going to happen unless it is approved by Ikeda. If he did not want mentor/disciple, buildings named after him, the Gandhi-King-Ikeda exhibit, photos with world leaders, and publicity of his several hundred honorary degrees....he would have stopped it long ago. There are just too many examples of his narcissism and hunger for power and glory. Including this, from earlier in the thread:

QUOTE EXCEPRT BELOW:

[www.proudblackbuddhist.org]

"This is the erotic bronze relief that Daisaku Ikeda had made of himself to be placed at the main altar in the head temple. Ikeda took advantage of the fact that SGI was, at that time, constructing the main building and had the thing installed in front of the most sacred Object of Worship in Nichiren Shoshu. One writer reported that Ikeda wanted to demonstrate his authorrity over the Dai-Gohonzon and the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood. Ikeda stated that his "soul was at Taisekiji." This grotesque, arrogant idea is charactoristic of a man of strong narcissism."

This must have been in the early 1970's, during the construction of the Shohondo, the building that the Dai Gohonzon was once housed in, on the grounds of the main temple, Taiseki-ji. Can you imagine -- getting someone to make a bronze relief of you in a swimming suit, and then demanding that it be placed at the main altar of any temple, of any religion? Who would do that? An Egyptian pharaoh? A Roman emperor? King Henry VIII? Ivan the Terrible? Kim Jong Il, of North Korea? It's hard for me to even imagine the kind of ego that would make a person think that they should be able to do something like this.

The writing was on the wall, decades before the priesthood/SGI split. SGI today is exactly as Ikeda planned for it to be, back in the 1950's or 60's.
...

Ok! Now, that we see the writing in black and white.

Now what you going to do about it.

How does this effect you in your everyday life?

How would you stop the maddness or the spread of ignorance teaching to others?

We are going up against a well tune army, heavy arm with money and people who think they are thinking for the best for their people. This is a long fight that will be won in a harden battle of words and PROOF.


This is for everyone to think about. These question were not aim at tsukimoto only. This is for everyone who as been/look/inform/read on this forum. Yes we are a small group of people, but we all can plant the seed to make people understand the wrongs of others.

My two cents Chirider: I don't see the point of going to battle with the SGI per se'. You, yourself pointed out how impossible it would be. It reminds me too much of the SGI trying to convince us year after year after year the 'wrongs' of the priesthood with the SGI representing themselves as the only true disciples of Nichiren. Whether true or false, most people in the SGI feel such discomfort with the whole issue because it just feels wrong to be in this type of a battle that is contradictory to being Buddhist. Afterall, all people have the Buddha nature and potential for enlightenment.

People in general don't want to hear that what they are doing is wrong. Long time members of the SGI in particular will turn against you instantly. The 'proof' that you mention is what we can show. Our independent practice of the basics of daimoku, gongyo, study and showing compassion to others brings out the best in us. Our happy life condition is indisputable proof.

I think the next step for me is being openly independent. The time is coming for this. I will expect to run across other individuals that are ready to learn about the practice, or cross paths with other disonnected members of the SGI that just want to hear the basics again, not how great their mento is.

So, it's not going to battle with strong words disputing the SGI [which would just make me feel bad a lot] as much as it is embracing the basic practice that brings people together.

I'll report back as I can . . . . . . . and still rant from time to time.

Now that my eyes are wide open, I am driven to live a fuller life. The SGI box I was in limited my potential and my happiness.

backnforth,

I do not mean a head to head battle with SGI. That would be doing what they want someone to do. There is enough proof on the internet that sgi would like to get rid of. It just needs to shown every now and then. Going head to head is what real shakubuku is all about "correcting the misguided beliefs of others". Quote from Waking the Lion- vol.1 by Marge Kirpatrick pg. 8. An yes I had fights with words with some of my old friends. But life will go on with them or without them specially my own. But the point I'm trying to make is that we know what they can do. We have to make sure the people who do not know fall into the same way of life. I do agree with you into getting one's life in order thru practice. But we should also not turn our back on our fellow man/women who is in dire need of help. Also showing people what "True Buddhism" is all about works also. But there are also over a 1,000 + sects of buddhism out there. Which one is the so call "True Buddhism" and you know who is going too say mine is. (sgi)

This is how stupid one can get by not thinking straight. Some of the older ex-members may remember when nsa had big conventions all over the country. Once a year this will happen they tell you to support the organization has much as you can. The best way is to come and show your support by being there. This is not cheap by any means plane ticket, hotel room, food, time and everything else that goes with it. Now I didn't think of this has being bad until one day durning the convention one of my family members tells me that my uncle is sick. An since I was in town I should vist him. Now the convention is in my home town one of the biggest in the country. They (nsa) say I cannot see my family members because I might get hurt here in the big city. Now I tell them that I live in this big city and I know more about this city then they do. Still they want me to stay in my room and they will make sure that I do not get out. There were no fights other than with words but they have to see it from my point of view 1. I'm in the military and this not a house arrest. 2. The people that my brother and I know could have burn down the hotel and start a bigger problem with nsa. Which was not in the best interest for them and I saw that in their faces when the group of people came to pick me up. Now do you know who was stupid in this? I was, Why, Because my brother told me a religious group does not stop you from see your sick family members if fact they encourage you to see your family members. Back then my brother told me that you (I) belong to cult and not even know it. He was comparing it to Rev. Moon group. I told him that I could prove him wrong. Well we can figure out how that turn out. But the seed was planted in to thinking a little bit more than listening to your leaders/mentors way of lies. The funny thing about that convention was the Pope was coming right after we left.

That is why we need to plant the seed first. Head to head never works, you just have to be better then them.

Oh! This happen in 1976 and I join in 1974. There was not much you could prove back then, but not now with the internet and everything else.

@chirider, You wrote, "That is why we need to plant the seed first. Head to head never works, you just have to be better than them. Oh! This happened in 1976 and I joined in 1974. There was not much you could prove back then, but not now with the internet and everything else."I have to agree with backnforth who wrote that "it just feels wrong to be in this type of a battle that is contradictory to being Buddhist...People in general don't want to hear that what they are doing is wrong. Long time members of the SGI in particular will turn against you instantly. The 'proof' that you mention is what we can show. Our independent practice of the basics of daimoku, gongyo, study and showing compassion to others brings out the best in us. Our happy life condition is indisputable proof" On the few occasions when I tried explaining my departure to current members and leaders who contacted me I discovered exactly what backnforth wrote. Those who remain committed to SGI will dismiss any criticisms of the organization, especially ones of Ikeda. I have a policy that I will not reach out to current members for any reason since I know any conversations or gatherings are likely to return to the reasons for my departure. I used to make an exception for those who contacted me but now I will not allow that either. The last time I took a phone call I found myself getting quite worked up as I discovered that any reasons, resources, evidences etc that I presented were obviously seen as my problem. I agree that the best I can do is show the proof that my life continues to be a good one without all the organizational stuff. I visited a non-Nichiren group recently only to discover that it had its version of the MDM. So now I am through with organized religion. Perhaps a better fit for me exists out there but I simply lack the willingness to seek it out, especially since I continue to love my Nichiren practice. Indeed, I feel that people join and maintain organizations for similar motives and these lead to variations on the cult theme. I still contend that SGI is a benign one since the members are generally nice people who enjoy the meaning SGI gives them. If that's how they feel, more power to them! I just want a different experience now, perhaps one not involving others.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2010 12:29PM by doubtful.

Quote
chirider
backnforth,

I do not mean a head to head battle with SGI. That would be doing what they want someone to do. There is enough proof on the internet that sgi would like to get rid of. It just needs to shown every now and then. Going head to head is what real shakubuku is all about "correcting the misguided beliefs of others". Quote from Waking the Lion- vol.1 by Marge Kirpatrick pg. 8. An yes I had fights with words with some of my old friends. But life will go on with them or without them specially my own. But the point I'm trying to make is that we know what they can do. We have to make sure the people who do not know fall into the same way of life. I do agree with you into getting one's life in order thru practice. But we should also not turn our back on our fellow man/women who is in dire need of help. Also showing people what "True Buddhism" is all about works also. But there are also over a 1,000 + sects of buddhism out there. Which one is the so call "True Buddhism" and you know who is going too say mine is. (sgi)

In my opinion, the only 'true Buddhists' in the world are the ones who are genuinely, deeply happy.
A state of mind characterised by a lack of fear, anxiety and confusion.

Precisely the opposite to the experience in SGI.

DUDE – FOR SURE – we have – always seen this in the reformed SGI – and IKEDA became the head of the SGI for life. NOW it didn’t seem like that back the day! We always were told that he was the president and nothing more! Over the years it has become apparent that this was not part of the plan - he would not only be president but master to us ALL. All I can do is keep talking to members that I feel are open to critical thinking – some have open to the possibility that IKEDA may not be the chosen one! This of course is heresy to some especially to some of the Japanese members that are totally aboard with the hero worship of the IKEDA cult – I have heard of members not mention IKEDA as their mentor and have had their heads handed to them my some IKEDA zealots that told the member that IKEDA should always be their mentor of choice! WHAT UP WITH THAT!!!!

@chirider you said:

Quote

Ok! Now, that we see the writing in black and white.

Now what you going to do about it.

How does this effect you in your everyday life?

How would you stop the maddness or the spread of ignorance teaching to others?

My approach has been to ignore them in general.

When confronted by a member trying to shakubuku me or to dispute my point of view, I try to keep in mind that the individual, although misled, is trying to do something positive for me based upon their value system.

SGI folks of today seem to be pretty thin in the theoretical department and inevitably break down to the basics they were taught - they just keep saying "it will make you sooo happy" and they will staunchly recommend that the victim "just come to a meeting with me and you will see" (translation, I need a bunch of support to make this shakubuku happen.).

When confronted by someone knowledgeable in the cult's background, it's many empty promises and implied and veiled threats, the individual ends up abandoning the effort due to their lack of "buddhist" depth and even their own lack of awareness of SGI history.

So, to accomplish what you are suggesting, I believe it needs to be a reverse shakubuku activity, question the individual, ask them questions like "so where does all that money go", "do you know what the KOMEITO is and how SGI supports that political party", "why did Ikea want to change the silent prayers?", "why did SGI split with the temple since it is a 'LAY ORGANIZATION' and is nothing without the priesthood (Remember the Three great treasures...)". You can use the SGI dogma to refute the organization easily.

Insofar as carrying out a world-wide campaign to eradicate SGI, good luck with that! I suspect the best that can be done is to keep repeating those inconvenient "details" where thinking people can see them and recognize that in general, people are drawn to the truth. (By the way, hello to the very patient Tsukimoto who always manages to come up with a web page excerpt or a news item that embodies those "inconvenient details" too!).

At the core of US SGI are people who initially were searching for the promise of buddhism, and I'd like to believe they eventually become so frayed and disillusioned with the pale copy known as Ikedaism and that they will finally begin voting with their feet.

Just my 2 cents.

Wakatta1



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2010 07:21PM by wakatta1.

FOR SURE – for my nickel worth I trend to go head on when talking to a Ikedabot - I remember last year one of my kids brought over a friend - just so happened he was Youth Div Leader and hopped up on Ikeda. SO after a few Ikeda this and Ikeda that I started to ask him direct questions about his MASTER and yes I used the M word on him! Ikedabots get very unnerved when you use the proper verbiage MASTER instead of their word that they use MENTOR! SO he got out of character and with face red decided to go with my kids to the game room! SO I feel a lot of this is just a facade – when they are amongst themselves they feed on IKEDA that gets them in a group sync but once on their own most I have seen are rudderless! They have little depth in this IKEDA cult and can’t give define answers – with one caveat IKEDA is always part of their response!

Hello, sorry I only write every few months or so. This year has been really interesting for me. A year ago at this time, I was fairly gung-ho about the SGI. I did have my doubts after 4 years of practicing, but it seemed easy to overlook them when I supposedly had a "high life condition". I was able to overlook some of the weirdness of the organziation, and even embraced it. It wasn't until a co-leader became really pushy with me about Rock the Era, that I started to realize that these people were not really friends. I never talked to anyone else about my practice. I only talked about SGI to people in the SGI, and because of this, my life became only SGI. Now that I have stepped away, and my eyes are opening, I have been working on building my life back up, slowly becoming friends with non-SGI people, etc.

I haven't been chanting, and I feel fine with that. I became weirded out when everything was so centered about Daisaku Ikeda as my mentor. I know many of us have felt the same way perhaps.

If there is one thing I do miss about the organization (and I believe I can find this elsewhere, I am just not sure yet) is the motivated feeling I had about my life when I chanted. I did believe anything was possible. I want this feeling back, but I don't want to chant. I don't believe I have to chant because I see many people who are motivated and don't chant at all, or even know what the SGI is.

I also feel like I want to not have a Gohonzon anymore because I feel so disappointed in those who lead me down the SGI path. I feel hurt, and betrayed in some ways. I don't want to be reminded or tempted anymore. Who can I talk to to help me with my feelings. I have been in therapy to help me with other issues, but I don't even know where to begin in talking about the SGI? I used to chant about things to help me about my life. Now where do I turn when I need help and guidance and it is in regards to the SGI. It has been very confusing to me, please help me if you can. Has anyone been through deprogramming for the SGI? Where did you go?