@backnforth You wrote, "It was such a noble idea and it felt good to be a part of a movement. But when I compare the 1980's, when I began practicing, to now, there has not been any more "peace" created in the world, in fact, more people have given up on the concept of peace I think. People are keeping to themselves more, trying to create harmony in their own lives, own families, but they pay less attention to the state of affairs in the world than say, the 60's & 70's where public protest was a common occurrence. So, was it false when NSA/SGI promised we were contributing to world peace by our propagation efforts to help ourselves and others attain unbreakable happiness?"
[/size]That's a great question because it reveals a lot about those of us who bought it and about what SGI is. Mark(Nichijew) certainly provided the doctrinal basis for kosen-rufu which is not what SGI promotes. Now, I know Mark might take issue with my saying this but SGI was probably smart not to push the pure doctrinal explanation for kosen-rufu because even a cursory glance at it shows that it is concerned with propagation of the Lotus Sutra as THE teaching to save the world, humanity, etc. Kosen-rufu is ultimately not about the "individual happiness of members," the material gain of the practitioners, or the elevation of any mentor. However, what it is about is ultimately threatening to other sects of Buddhism that do not uphold the Lotus Sutra, not to mention all other world religions. Even things like inter-faith dialogue would be problematic because Nichiren only had time for the elevation of the Lotus Sutra and no other doctrines or faiths. I apologize to any out there who might take offense to my saying this, but neither Nichiren nor Shakyamuni nor Jesus nor Mohamed cornered the market on truth, on the ONLY way to save mankind or to help people fix or control their destiny or karma or quality of their lives. While I am not a relativist who sees all these and other teachings as equally valid, I am realistic. Other faiths and teachings are not going to go away even if all their practitioners were exposed to the Lotus Sutra, not in its SGI guise. So my personal response to your question is that no religious practice creates something as nebulous as "world peace," so it was false when NSA/SGI said otherwise. I used to think that if only more would chant the daimoku and study Buddhism so many of their problems would be solved. Then I noticed that no matter how well I spoke or how much I chanted with or about certain people, many simply did not take to this philosophy in practice or theory. There went my well-intentioned but naive mentality. Truthfully, I don't know what would create world peace and I doubt anyone else knows either. Perhaps the approach of the post-60s activists is more realistic in the long run. I continue chanting to the Gohonzon and doing gongyo, usually once a day instead of twice. Like those you mentioned, my practice is aimed at those closest to me. I pray that my enlightenment manifest itself in my responses to other people and to unpleasant or unforeseen incidents and events. This is the only way my practice can bring ME peace. Other people get there with Jesus. Finally, I could also become politically or socially involved and carry my enlightenment beyond my immediate environment--but I don't. Perhaps, I am representative of some who joined SGI or other organizations because I had a lot of idealism and uncertainty, coupled with an alternative inclination and a little self-centered laziness.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2010 12:37PM by doubtful.

I hear ya loud and clear Doubtful.

As much as I still identify with Buddhism and call myself a dedicated Buddhist, I am very anti-religious at heart and was extremely close-minded to anything religious prior to meeting the co-worker that invited me to her house for a "Life Philosophy meeting" in the 80's. When they pulled out Gohonzon applications at the end of the meeting to sign folks up, I quickly headed out the door instead.

Yet, NSA nka SGI offered something I needed at the time while still finding myself. Not only did I feel passionate about the world peace idea, I really liked that I didn't have to change myself nor have to adopt any particular belief system.

Not so today and for the last several years.

I was reading in a leadership manual from'07 - '08 which is still being used today and if I had ever read anything like this as a new recruit, I would have never stuck around:

"Buddhism is a teaching conveyed through the mentor-disciple relationship . . . . the oneness . . of mentor and disciple forms the essence of Buddhist practice" THE ESSENCE? REALLY? What about daimoku, the Gohonzon, Ichinen Sanzen? OMG

And further down: "If individuals who've never personally striven all out to achieve their mentor's goals become top leaders, our members are the ones who will suffer" MENTOR'S GOALS? REALLY? What happened to MY goals, MY happiness. The practice used to be a place where people could come to work to achieve their life's dreams, not just follow the mentor and focus on the mentor's goals. I might be sick, gotta go.

Excerpts from SGI-USA Leadership Manual, P. ix

@backnforth you wrote, "I was reading in a leadership manual from'07 - '08 which is still being used today and if I had ever read anything like this as a new recruit, I would have never stuck around: 'Buddhism is a teaching conveyed through the mentor-disciple relationship . . . . the oneness . . of mentor and disciple forms the essence of Buddhist practice' THE ESSENCE? REALLY? What about daimoku, the Gohonzon, Ichinen Sanzen? OMG And further down:'If individuals who've never personally striven all out to achieve their mentor's goals become top leaders, our members are the ones who will suffer'. MENTOR'S GOALS? REALLY? What happened to MY goals, MY happiness. The practice used to be a place where people could come to work to achieve their life's dreams, not just follow the mentor and focus on the mentor's goals." Thanks for this reminder. The other day I was asked if I missed practicing with the organization instead of alone. I immediately said no. It is the truth. I don't miss the organization because of things like your post. You asked some great questions. It drives me crazy how SGI continues to blow its chance at being a genuine Buddhist organization. You are right. daimoku, Gohonzon, Buddhist terms/concepts; overcoming delusion and suffering--all of these should top the list, not the MDM. Once again this leads me to think that SGI does not trust the practice or the members enough to present Buddhism correctly. Buddhism is the greatest philosophy I believe. Hence why so many New Age practices rip it off constantly. However, I suspect that most people are not interested in adopting foreign chants, sutras, visualizations, or silent meditations--at least not in any consistent way, but many think the concepts are cool. Lots of people like Buddhism but do not want to be Buddhist. That's all right with me. Everyone does not need to do what I do, especially if it is unappealing to them. SGI thinks that packaging Nichiren Buddhism as a get-rich pyramid, with Ikeda as the salesman everyone needs to emulate is THE way to be Buddhist. Okay, that's their prerogative while mine is to head in the opposite direction.

Since I'm new to this thread. I would like to ask a few questions. Do you still do morning and evening gonyo? Or just one set. Also do you do the new version or the old one. The older one has a lot more pages. I have one prayer book from 1973 the others are from 1979 to present.

Yes I do see the changes from 1974 (when I join) to the 90's (the split-up) to the present. There are alot of changes that has happen, a lot of members did not know where to go or what side to be on. Me I just didn't think about it. I just practice once in a while, get back into it, drop out, start over again. I'm one of those people who cannot take orders from just any old one.

If you look at the older english prayer book. All the prayers start with "WE" other than the decease prayer. In 1979 is when they change it to "I" for every prayer. Now the "WE" stands for everyone has a whole. The "I" stands for oneself which is kind of odd, we were suppose to be doing this has a whole for world peace not by oneself. I am still waiting for the answer for this one. I ask this question in 1979 and still can't get a right answer.

Does anyone remember hearing or reading about a group of youths that had a leader's name with it about 60+ yrs. ago? It was somewhere in Europe.

Now don't get me wrong Pres. Ikeda is "NO" where near this nut job. But when I heard and got the the email of the changing of name Youth Div.. It lead me to think of that nut job in Europe some sixty plus years ago.

They say history does repeat itself about every fifty or sixty years.

Quote
chirider
Since I'm new to this thread. I would like to ask a few questions. Do you still do morning and evening gonyo? Or just one set. Also do you do the new version or the old one. The older one has a lot more pages. I have one prayer book from 1973 the others are from 1979 to present.

Yes I do see the changes from 1974 (when I join) to the 90's (the split-up) to the present. There are alot of changes that has happen, a lot of members did not know where to go or what side to be on. Me I just didn't think about it. I just practice once in a while, get back into it, drop out, start over again. I'm one of those people who cannot take orders from just any old one.

If you look at the older english prayer book. All the prayers start with "WE" other than the decease prayer. In 1979 is when they change it to "I" for every prayer. Now the "WE" stands for everyone has a whole. The "I" stands for oneself which is kind of odd, we were suppose to be doing this has a whole for world peace not by oneself. I am still waiting for the answer for this one. I ask this question in 1979 and still can't get a right answer.

Does anyone remember hearing or reading about a group of youths that had a leader's name with it about 60+ yrs. ago? It was somewhere in Europe.

Now don't get me wrong Pres. Ikeda is "NO" where near this nut job. But when I heard and got the the email of the changing of name Youth Div.. It lead me to think of that nut job in Europe some sixty plus years ago.

They say history does repeat itself about every fifty or sixty years.

Are you talking about the D.I. Crew [Daisaku Ikeda group from Soka University]? Some of us still chant. Some only chant the Daimoku and some recite the Sutra one, two, or more times a day. Some still use the SGI style of Gongyo, others the Nichiren Shoshu style, and still others, the Nichiren Shu or Kempon Hokke essential Services.

I think the saying, "crazy as a fox" is a good way to describe President Ikeda.

Nichiew

@chirider You asked about gongyo. I joined when the prayer service was longer and we still had the priesthood. Since then it changed once or twice. I do the shorter service, the recent one because after all, it's not like I know what I am saying anyway. It's in a dead language. Because it is part of the ritual I do it and it does focus my experience a bit. However, I never was good at twice a day for gongyo but I still chant for about 45 min a day, longer on the weekends. I still love the focus and the overall feeling I get from it. I would love to hear about your experience with the Gakkai.

Just in case the first message did go thru. This what I started to say............... Or if it did go thru..................

Nichijew,

I was referring to Youth Performing Group for SGI-USA. On 22, Sept. 2010 it will be renamed as Ikeda Youth Ensemble. Sounds like what the guy in Germany did 60+ yrs. ago.

doubtful,

(I kind of forgot what i first wrote.) But i did find this site by accident. I was looking for new juzu beads. Saw Buddhist Equipment (Hello! is anybody home. this is no way to run a business). Their beads are nice looking but if i can't get in contact with them i will make my own. I saw NBAA site and WoW! There are people out there who think like I do. My practice does not follow their guide-lines (NSA-SGI). I tend not to listen to what people tell me. I did not go to the study groups like they told everyone must do. I didn't have the time to do it and if they said I had to. I would tell them no. (this is putting it nicely for this site you can read between the lines) I still have the old NSA quarterlies, some old Seikyo Times. I got rid of the old WT's 1974-1980 every issue for those years. I also have the copy of the Lotus Sutra for the 2nd & 16th chapters of the prayer book. This was written by the Seiko Times, it tells you what you are saying but in english.

I had some bad times with them, not many. But life moves on and so must I. I first join by a friend (girl) I was in the Christen faith at the time (didn't care for their view points either) and this was something new at the time. But when you get into the military it is a little hard to practice in the am or pm. I even still have the record for doing gongyo (old stuff ). So when you move around alot you find it harder to practice and also this means now to. I do have some of the books like for Gosho, Writings of N.D., also the Lotus Sutra. Which it was written with SG in hand in 1993. But I now (have just bought it) a newer verison by Gene Reeves. I now do more studying now than when I was in SGI-NSA (LOL). Never thought this was a cult, I just never listen to anybody. But since I have read this forum and a few other sites. Man! I'm glad I think like the way I do. When they say if you quit practicing you fall back to wear you were before. I went out and tried it. Quit and stay away for a while just to see what happpens.

IMOP it is the person who will make up his will to surive. And doubtful, I still chant(not like I use to) still do gongyo shorter one, just not all the time. But I do know "right from wrong" and "cause & effect" in ones life. It is up to the person himself to make change and be at peace with the surroundings. But alittle good outside guidance doesn't hurt either.

Dear chirider:

Oh that guy! There are more than a few similarities but thankfully, little physical violence in the latter's movement.

Dear Chrider, Several months ago I was watching a show on the history channel about the rise of the nazi movemment. So many similarities!

There are many other people and countries who still use brain washing on their young people. Some have internet that is wide open to the public (like the US) some who are run by the gov't (the Chinese and others).

Let's hope people will not let history repeat itself.