Doubtful: you have said so many things that match my feelings exactly (but I won't quote them all):

However, I cannot allow a few powerful experiences to be the reason I support activities that have become more and more cult-like over the past five years. If I could have just ignored the unpleasant parts that would have been one thing, but that gets pretty hard to do when the MDM is on almost every page of the publications and in the mouth of every leader and many members.

Thank you for mentioning the MDM again (mentor disciple mistake). This is really the key issue that will be the death of SGI I think, although many cannot imagine that will ever happen. But President Ikeda will eventually die and those in power now that are hopeful they can continue to control everyone using this SGI invention will be very disappointed indeed!!

For those people that are still members but do not pay all that much attention to study: Oneness of Mentor Disciple is nowhere in the gosho!!

And lastly, I want to thank Nichijew for his well-meaning reminder that we do need to keep pointing out the errors here so that the message is clear enough and not just our reminiscing about the good ol' days, and let me be clear, the SGI of the good ol' days no longer exists.

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backnforth

For those people that are still members but do not pay all that much attention to study: Oneness of Mentor Disciple is nowhere in the gosho!!

I recall shorly before I left the SGI Shigo Kingo suddenly became a major player in gosho study. It hadn't dawned on me until recently how they were using Shigo Kingo to play up the theme of mentor and disciple.

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Tibbs

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backnforth

For those people that are still members but do not pay all that much attention to study: Oneness of Mentor Disciple is nowhere in the gosho!!

I recall shorly before I left the SGI Shigo Kingo suddenly became a major player in gosho study. It hadn't dawned on me until recently how they were using Shigo Kingo to play up the theme of mentor and disciple.

Tibbs: Thank's for pointing that out.

For Sure – WOW the olden dayz (it was in the 1970ish years when I started practicing) when we actually took time to read and understand gosho! I say that ended a good twenty years ago – when I stated to practice that’s what it was all about and the meeting had meaning! And @ discussion meetings where we dug into Buddhism – philosophizing – and not talking about our MASTER IKEDA and his all knowing powers all of the time 24/7!
WHAT UP WITH THAT!!! HOW did we ever manage all those years without IKEDA divine guidance!!
I fear that just before the SGI / Priesthood break-up there was a strong resentment fostered by SGI leaders against the Priests. An orchestrated event driven top down from the leadership! We had a guest speaker talking down regarding the priesthood. After the meeting I came up and asked this most high leader – that it wasn’t Buddhist like to slander others! I said if you have issues with someone I was always told to chant for the happiness not for their downfall or as I always say poison comes from the mouth! He was taken aback by my remarks and stated that the priesthood was an obstacle and SGI needed it’s freedom the members needed to “take action” so I infer that he was telling me to focus on the upcoming event (the evil priesthood must be dispatched @ all costs) – even back then I felt that something just didn’t feel right! : 0

If you look at the history of SGI, Ikeda and Toda had conflicts with the priests at Taiseki-ji even as far back in the 1950's. By the 1970's, the conflict had gotten much worse. Ikeda briefly stepped down and Hiroshi Hojo became Soka Gakkai president briefly (1979-ish) I think that SGI planned to initiate a split with the priesthood all along, at least as far back as the 1970's. Possibly Ikeda and Toda even had this goal back in the 1950's. They were just waiting until SGI was large and powerful enough to survive without the priests, and by the 1990's, it was.

It was this old bait and switch routine. Those of us who joined before the 1990's, really did think that we were joining a Buddhist organization. As Cyclops said, there was serious study of Buddhist concepts -- and now, just Mentor/Disciple, which is not what I thought I was signing up for.

Isn't the bottom line that the priests didn't want to follow orders from the General "Dr." Ikeda?

Like King Henry VIII and the Pope.
The Pope would not follow orders, so the King fired the Pope, and made himself the Pope/Head of the Church of England.

Gen. Ikeda did the same thing. Fire those who won't take orders and submit, and then declare yourself President for life.
Then you call the shots, and collect all the money.

Of course, you have to demonize those Priests you are firing, by manufacturing crude propaganda and lies about them.
General Ikeda really a person who triggers feelings of disgust in those who look at his ugly behavior objectively.

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The Anticult
Isn't the bottom line that the priests didn't want to follow orders from the General "Dr." Ikeda?

Like King Henry VIII and the Pope.
The Pope would not follow orders, so the King fired the Pope, and made himself the Pope/Head of the Church of England.

Gen. Ikeda did the same thing. Fire those who won't take orders and submit, and then declare yourself President for life.
Then you call the shots, and collect all the money.

Of course, you have to demonize those Priests you are firing, by manufacturing crude propaganda and lies about them.
General Ikeda really a person who triggers feelings of disgust in those who look at his ugly behavior objectively.

Exactly. On pages 57 and 231 of this thread, we have accounts of how Ikeda, as a Young Men's Division member in the 1950's, led a group of young men in beating up an elderly priest named Ogasawara. Not exactly kind, enlightened Buddhist behavior. Page 207 of this thread discusses some of the Soka Gakkai's behavior in the 1970's. The Taiseki-ji priests were objecting because SGI wanted to change the prayer books, and make their own copies of the Gohonzon. Basically, Ikeda wanting to do what he wanted and no priest was going to tell him no, and also a deliberate act of provocation.

And don't forget that the High Priest would not allow the bronze bas-relief of Ikeda in swim trunks to be displayed at the Head Temple. Lord, what a thing to demand. Would even King Henry VIII have thought of telling a priest to display such an image of him in a church? Well, at least, Ikeda has not beheaded his wife, at least as far as we know.

Backforth, your idea has come up this week by a few people who share the same idea of practicing daimoku together outside of the SGI. It would be a challenge as I am the chosen one to get this started and as often mentioned at SGI meetings ''those who practice outside of the organization are practicing their own kind of buddhism''... That would be the first guilt trip, I'd have to deal with, but I'm seriously contemplating the idea...

"The most dangerous lie is that which most closely resembles the truth."

Dear exmio:

"People can attain enlightenment in two ways: by meeting the Buddha and hearing the Lotus Sutra, or by believing in the sutra even though they do not meet the Buddha..." [Writings of Nichiren Daishonin page 359]

I don't see anything about belonging to a particular group. Chapter 15 of the Lotus Sutra talks about a multitude of leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. "Be pleased to be without anxiety." -- LS

Mark

Exmio: I think the timing would be good for a new lay organization to be launched for those that want to practice the basics of chanting, introducing others and study. But as some of us have mentioned, receiving Gohonzon would be difficult (if you, like me, am not in favor of downloading over the internet). I am interested in what you mean when you say "I am the chosen one to get this started . . ."

Others have mentioned the future of this Buddhism is in private 'schools' like Yoga, TaiChi, etc., where you pay to be a member and come to the chanting sessions. I'm not seeing this as being in the spirit of Nichiren Buddhism.

Others yet, are satisfied with an independent practice. That seems to be the only alternative for many that are soured on organized religion. We continue to miss the community though . . .