Welcome, sgIwonder! I know all of us are glad to have you aboard! You are totally and completely amongst friends.

@quiet one and BeingAdagio You two suggested that backnforth's post sounded like proselytizing. I hope that there is some room for those of us here who want to hold on to the practice, provided that we do not become aggressive in getting others to return or reconsider doing it. I agree with Morgaine when she says, "I think it is hard to stop the Gakkai speak, especially after 20-plus years, I still speak that way and I have not been to a meeting in over a year, I sometimes have to go back and erase something I have written to post because I know it sounds very Gakkaish.Such is the way of cults and getting over being in one , the behavior and verbiage is hard to shake. I think the forum is very helpful for new people finding their way out of the cult mentality , but a little discouraging for those who may want to leave the Gakkai cult and keep the Buddhism."
I appreciate the way the many posts here help me re-examine the phrasing/logic that slips out sometimes. Nevertheless, some of that stuff might be all right. Not everything about SGI or SGI's version of Nichiren Buddhism was bad. I don't want to annoy anyone or get in trouble here by posting some helpful techniques I learned in SGI since all of you know them anyway. @TIbbs, welcome. Please share some of your stories here. I think it safe to say many of us can identify with them in a way that others may not. This forum is a fantastic way to recover from cult-like practices, especially if you remember that each of us is unique and that means some of us might say things about SGI or cults or ? that you may not like. If that happens, please ignore the post and read on. Question for everyone: How did you handle it when current SGI members started contacting you about your departure? I am starting to experience that. When I left I promised not to contact members with my issues but I never said I would not talk to those who contacted me. @BeingAdagio, you wrote, "The biggest challenge, for me, is sharing the practice without that SGI "what's in it for me" agenda running silently in the background like a computer virus." I agree I still have a tiny bit of that reflex when I want to criticize SGI or Ikeda to others in and outside this forum. It's healthy to proceed, not with fear of retribution, but without the kind of emotionalism that may suggest that a healthy recovery remains elusive. I want to be fair to SGI and to myself. Both of us exhibited some unhealthy qualities, but apparently we needed each other for a while but not anymore. Way back someone compared the old relationship to finding the stub of a movie ticket in your pocket months or years after a movie you enjoyed at the time but no longer care to view. @tsukimoto you wrote, "So when I chanted a lot, was I like this -- happy, wise, kind, at peace -- in challenging situations? Sometimes I was, sometimes I wasn't. I knew a lot of people in SGI, who chanted hours a day, and did not seem to be like this -- and yet, maybe they'd have been worse if they had not been chanting.Now that I'm not chanting? Well, life has been pretty smooth lately. Oh, the usual ups and downs but nothing catastrophic. So will I fall apart when a crisis comes up? Maybe. Maybe not." Please don't get me wrong. I mean it when I say that if I could live as well without the practice, I would. That's an experiment I may try soon. If you are doing the same or better without it, thank you for giving me hope!



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2010 11:54AM by doubtful.

@tsukimoto, You wrote, What I want to do is look at the gakkai language, all those phrases, and buzzwords that I used for years without really thinking about them -- and think about them. What do I mean when I think about karmic retribution, attaining Buddhahood, getting benefit, making a good cause/bad cause, being in rhythm with myoho, having a high or low life condition? Words were one way that I was manipulated into certain thought patterns, feelings, and actions. So if I look at the words, hopefully I can see and undo that manipulation. Isn't that Buddhist, too? Right thought, right thinking?Words are so powerful. Why do we refer to our friend Daisaku as "President" Ikeda. Presidents are elected for a set period. Who elected him? Nobody. He is dictator for life, but "Dictator" Ikeda wouldn't play. "President" makes him sound grand, historic...and democratic, which he's not! I am trying to avoid even referring to him as "President Ikeda." Why can't I refer to him as Daisaku? He's human....so am I. The idea even seems strange, almost naughty to me...which tells me that I've still got some of that SGI conditioning stuck in the brain.By all means, let's examine those words and phrases. I suspect they might not hold up to scrutiny or that they might mean something ultimately problematic. Like you I generally avoided calling Ikeda "pres" because that always sounded phony to me but I never could verbalize it until reading posts like yours. You are absolutely right: even the use of that title before his name suggests something that is not true about him and the organization. Perhaps this is what would happen if the phrases were to get a closer look. Nevertheless, I am not sure I want to go there--yet. I like the way life is going now so why make any more changes? @sgIwonder , Welcome. Please read most or all of the posts so that you get a balanced view of the members. We are a varied bunch here.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2010 12:14PM by doubtful.

Thank you for the warm welcome. On the subject of what I call "SGI-speak", there are a lot of code or buzz words we use, that I did not recognize as such until I had taken an extended "sabatical" from the practice. One of my favs is saying that person is really "sincere" -- sometimes meaning "they try very hard, but have no common sense." There are dozens, maybe hundreds of others, that crept into our vocabulary. On the other hand, even though many of these phrases are shorthand, or sound like they mean one thing, but actually mean another, in most cases the original intent was to encourage or criticize gently. However, like anything overused they can end up as cliche, phony, or double-speak (hmm, language intended to brainwash?)

It wasn't until I stepped out of the world of endless activities that I found the time to finally finish my bachelors degree, get a masters and start a real career, that I had delayed "for kosen-rufu" -- and start coming to my own conclusion about things. I in no way regret my years of crazy activities. I had amazing experiences I would never have had otherwise, working for a positive goal. I delayed my own advancement to help others -- I'm sure that giving myself over to a goal greater than myself helped me grow as a human being in ways I could never realize. However, at some point I just felt my sincerity (read lack of common sense) was abused and not appreciated and the only way I was going to get the time to do what I needed to support my family was to just say, no, and take care of myself for a while. The end result was a pretty decent career, though I'm far from wealthy. I also found out there's a lot of wonderful, hard-working, interesting, successful, and goodhearted people who don't practice.

After my more than a decade away from active participation, upon my return I found the organization changed -- some things positive and some things not so positive. But the people (volunteer leaders and general members) are very nice, caring and trying to do the best they can -- and perhaps too "sincere" for their own good in some ways. I sense no hidden agenda on their part. One real positive is that most people do seem to now be given space to pursue other interests and live fairly normal lives if they desire.

The things I sgIwonder about are some of things brought up here about what was done to Mr. Williams, or what he did, though that is now really old news, and what seems to be the over-emphasis on President Ikeda. In the time I was not actively engaged '95 or '96, to 08 -- that whole thing happened. Ah well -- as I said its old news, but you can imagine my surprise that he had become such a persona non grata, something I found out by accident. I had no idea. I read most of posts here and a lot of information other places, so no need to rehash anything for me. Whatever the reason for whatever happened it's just a shame, but time to move on.

My real desire is, as tsukimoto and others have expressed, is now for personal enlightenment -- and to be able to send my child to the best possible university, and...

Every single sect, designs and uses their own private vocabulary, with redefined word meanings.
That is how you take control of people's thinking processes! Thought Reform.
Control the language, and the meanings of words, control the people. Ikeda and the SGI bigwigs know that.

They also know, you have to control people's behavior too. So you give them rituals to repeat repeat repeat, and keep them as busy as possible.
Control their behaviors, and control their language patterns, control the people. No question, that is Ikeda's real religion, he knows that better than anyone, like any "leader".

Its no accident people stay with SGI for decades, and come back to it, over and over. SGI-Ikeda also know that!
Ikeda-SGI wants LIFERS, they have said that many times, and they know how to turn people into SGI-Lifers.


A way out, is to take control back of one's language and behaviors. Break the SGI rituals and behaviors and language patterns. Break the patterns, and shred the patterns, to break free.



President Ikeda is actually a brilliant language manipulation. A President, of course makes some people think of democracy. But also, a President is the man who OWNS and RUNS his own PRIVATE LLC CORPORATION. [en.wikipedia.org]
That is what SGI really is, SGI-INC-Global. A multibilliondollar company.

And Ikeda is the President, its his company, he calls the shots.
Ikeda is President-CEO-Owner-Chairman / (Dictator for Life)

For Sure – The SGI juggernaut – was in the beginning stages when I joined in the 70’s – If someone told me that this is how it would end up replacing – GOD – with IKEDA I would have gone another way – Because if you talk to a member – true believers in IKEDA – they equate IKEDA & Nichiren that they are on par with one another, it just boggles the mind – Most times when you make a point with a member the member will either start with or end with something about IKEDA –it’s like a recording or a pre-program response – it’s really annoying - IKEDABOTS – FOR SURE

That is an interesting word to run through Google:

Ikedabot

The earliest reference to the word is by a Nichiren Shoshu adherent and one time most hated gaijin enemy of the Soka Gakkai, Craig Bratcher, in 1995.

Mark

A couple brief comments tonight:

As far as what percentage of members would vote Mr. Ikeda as the real Buddha, I think it would be quite low. I feel that the majority of members stay regardless of what is taught for 2 reasons: 1) Chanting feels good, and 2) the amazing sense of community especially if access to a large center.

One thought that occurred to me today was how I must have been attracted to the chanting and the feeling of community in the beginning. And I really don't mind that chanting is mind-altering as some say. My mind can be so dang negative and lead me down such discouraging paths; I'm still so glad to have this tool - it helps me a lot. I realize not all people have such a bad time with negativity. Heck, it's kept all the anti-depressant drugs at bay, so why not? I've never tried them; I prefer to avoid drugs of all kinds for the record.

Final thought: Why not "President" Ikeda? No, not elected, but either are many Corporate Presidents. Further proof that it was always a business vernture maybe?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2010 09:20AM by backnforth.

Here's a good SGI buzz phrase, "train members"...Like fluffy the dog?

SGIwonder, here is a bunch on Mr. Williams, [www.youtube.com]

Nichijew