As an aside, an understanding of the maths skewer simple beliefs every time.

The entire worldwide gaming industry, which encompasses insurance, stock markets, banking as well as the 'seamier' side of horse racing, casinos and lotteries, rests on the general public's lack of understanding of probabilities and statistics and reliance instead on emotionally driven conclusions.

Ugh goodness, really?? Are we saying that chanting does not offer protection? That it does not put you in rrthym?? I wholeheartedly disagree.

Without delving into a conversation about quantum mechanics, I would say, yes there are things wrong with SGI, but please, do not throw the baby out with the bath-water.

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Morgaine
Ugh goodness, really?? Are we saying that chanting does not offer protection? That it does not put you in rrthym?? I wholeheartedly disagree.

Without delving into a conversation about quantum mechanics, I would say, yes there are things wrong with SGI, but please, do not throw the baby out with the bath-water.

Excellent Morgaine. Only a votary of the Lotus Sutra can understand the import of the Lotus Sutra's protection. Observing the life of Nichiren we know this is true. Reading and bellieving Chapter 25 of the Lotus Sutra, we know this to be true. The point from a religious perspective is that the protection in the SGI is lost because of the mixing of the clean with the unclean and a lack of faith in the correct teachings.

@ Morgaine and Nichijew
Although I still chant, it most be noted that this forum is not one of Nichiren practitioners, but one open to ALL (ex)-SGI-members plus family and friends. Amongst those you will find people who simply do not believe in any religion any more including what some of us believe to be the benefit of chanting. They are have perfectly every right to state why, in their opinion, chanting may be wishful thinking.

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Rothaus
@ Morgaine and Nichijew
Although I still chant, it most be noted that this forum is not one of Nichiren practitioners, but one open to ALL (ex)-SGI-members plus family and friends. Amongst those you will find people who simply do not believe in any religion any more including what some of us believe to be the benefit of chanting. They are have perfectly every right to state why, in their opinion, chanting may be wishful thinking.

Dear rothaus:

You will notice that I stated, "from the religious perspective.". You are entitled to state what you will from the secular perspective, why then are we not free to state what we will from the religious perspective? There are both secular non-adherents here as well as religious adherents.

Buku

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Nichijew
Only a votary of the Lotus Sutra can understand the import of the Lotus Sutra's protection. Observing the life of Nichiren we know this is true.

This comment had yet again an undertone of being part of a selected view – proselytizing. There is nothing wrong to comment on different streams in Nichiren Buddhism. But I am sorry to say I have have been long enough in SGI to have developed a deep antipathy to those who show any symptoms of superiority based on their religious beliefs.
I won't change you, but I will however speak up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2010 12:23AM by Rothaus.

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Rothaus

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Nichijew
Only a votary of the Lotus Sutra can understand the import of the Lotus Sutra's protection. Observing the life of Nichiren we know this is true.

This comment had yet again an undertone of being part of a selected view – proselytizing. There is nothing wrong to comment on different streams in Nichiren Buddhism. But I am sorry to say I have have been long enough in SGI to have developed a deep antipathy to those who show any symptoms of superiority based on their religious beliefs.
I won't change you, but I will however speak up.

Dear Rothaus:

By all means, I encourage you to speak up but please don't tread on our right to do the same.

Buku

It was not my intention to cause division amongst you but simply to point out that conclusions based on emotion rather than logic have long been used to hoodwink people who have little understanding of probability theory.
Just because it feels right it doesn't necessarily follow that it is right. Our feelings are changeable and easily manipulated.

Using logic alone also has its pitfalls. I am not a Buddhist but the middle way is a timely reminder to not lean too heavily on either side when negotiating through life.

Of course each of us is free to choose our own way and to live our lives as we choose.

A question about SGI New Zealand at this link, and sexual manipulation. [forum.culteducation.com]

Have noticed some manipulative sexual behavior around SGI recruiting.

But it may not have come from SGI, but SGI just served as a "green light" for certain people to act-out without guilt?
The explanation seemed to be, that anything goes to recruit new members to SGI, as then that person believe they will get a better Karma and more Goodies. So by recruiting you into SGI, they seem to believe they are getting a Karma commission.
Sorta like Amway, but without the products!

But at the same time, other SGI did not display that sexualized behavior.
It does seem perhaps that the SGI system can serve as a green-light, for certain people to act-out without restraint, as the ends justifies the means in their minds.
Many SGI people are very very intense and persistent in trying to sell you into SGI, very much like an Amway MLM, they never stop trying.

Of course, each person has to figure out those complex issues around coincidences themselves, and make sense of it. Just trying to show another side of the coin.

What Stoic said above, is very accurate. Those in the gaming, lottery, insurance areas know all of that very well. They all hire the math PhD's for that reason.
They then EXPLOIT human emotion, when in fact the game is rigged. The casino always wins in the end.
So those in the know, do use that knowledge to manipulate the public, everyday. Watch a lottery commercial, it is preying on human wishful thinking.


Guess what? So is SGI. They are doing the same thing. They tell you that by doing what they say, you can win the Karma lottery, and change your "luck". And the more you chant, and the more money you give to Dr. Ikeda, the more better your luck will be.
Some people go off the edge, and starting chanting hours a day, or all day, and give SGI everything. That is no accident, SGI is setting people up for that, if they are vulnerable. This thread shows SGI pushing people to GIVE SGI THEIR LAST DOLLAR ON EARTH.
SGI knows what they are doing to people.


The SGI testimonies of Believers, are the Confirmation Bias, as well as wanting to please their leaders by juicing their stories.
But SGI does take CONSCIOUS advantage of superstitious thinking in many ways, like when they try to SCARE people that terrible things will happen to them, if they leave the SGI system. So SGI does that on purpose.
Does SGI also juice and manipulate the idea that SGI-Chanting will bring you Goodies, when in fact those running SGI know its not true? Would have to say yes.
Like any sect, they see that people lives do NOT get better, they still die from disease, same people, same problems year after year. That's life.

But in any large group of people, a few % will have some success, and they just advertise those. Take a group of 100,000 people, and a few % are going to have some "good luck". Then just put those in your magazine, and ignore the other 99% of people.


There are interesting maths in this, for those who are interested.
Many libraries have this excellent basic DVD lecture series, and it can be watched for free.

Joy of Thinking: The Beauty and Power of Classical Mathematical Ideas [www.teach12.com]
QUOTE: "Coincidences are striking because any particular one is extremely improbable. However, what is even more improbable is that no coincidence will occur. You see that finding two people having the same birthday in a room of 45 is extremely likely, by chance alone, even though the probability that any particular two people will have the same birthday is extremely low."