From the Fraught With Peril Website, Kempon Hokke blog, August 21, 2010, Mark Rogow

Further misfortunes of Soka Gakkai leaders.

[fraughtwithperil.com]

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Guy McCloskey’s first born son died in a motorcycle accident.

NY pioneer members first born son died when he accidentally strangled on a tree branch.

One top New York senior leader died when a snow plow ran over his car on a clear and snow free day.

I know of another who had the top of his head taken off by a metal stage prop hook as he sat in the audience.

I knew another YMD leader who lost his legs when he got out of his car to change a flat, on a relatively traffic free road when a car barreled into him.

My friend, Dewitt Johnson, an up and coming YMD senior leader, died when his parachute failed to open.

Shin Yatomi, Vice Study Department Chief (unofficial chief) proclaimed absolutely that he would beat his lung cancer thanks to his mentor disciple relationship with President Ikeda but he died shortly thereafter.

Gary Hinman, a men’s division leader and head of the bagpipers, was brutally murdered by the Manson crew.
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doubtful
I know you and some others resist crediting Ikeda with introducing members. Perhaps you are right. We will have to agree to disagree. The charisma that he has displayed in many videos (not the recent ones) was obvious to me. Danny Nagashima has it too. I cannot deny that Ikeda is special in some way that maybe I cannot comprehend. If he were not, then why do so many members love him? Why did the majority of members stick with him/the Gakkai instead of the temple? There is something there.

@doubtful, "charisma" is a trait shared by both con artists and genuinely great, truly wise individuals.  According to dictionary.com, the word "charisma" (as used above) is defined as, "a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people." It's neither positive nor negative in itself -- what matters is how it's used. I am not sure I believe that passing a religion on to others in a distorted, self-serving manner is good for either the religion or its adherents, though I realize that point is open to debate.

@backnforth

You said:  "Just practicing alone is not the spirit of this Buddhism at all. We can run a district without the SGI, but when someone new wants a Gohonzon, we don't feel comfortable connecting them to the SGI anymore."

I agree.  This has been the most challenging aspect of leaving SGI for me.  If people could just come together and chant (the one and only thing we all agree on), and support one another without all the narcissistic, ego tripping baggage, that would be one thing.  But in Nichiren land, unfortunately, someone always has to play the "more right than you" card. That's where I ring the bell and get off the bus.

Backnforth...

[www.culteducation.com]

Scroll down to the bottom for Cult-Sect Characteristics

The Kempon Hokke has been a Nichiren sect since the 14th century, upholding the tenets of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren since that time. SGI has every characteristic of "cult". Kempon Hokke has every characteristic of sect and none of cult. The proper way to dispose of "Gohonzon" is burning it. The Nichikan Gohonzon is the "banner of propagation of the Soka Gakkai." Why would anyone who disasociates from the Soka Gakkai embrace the Soka Gakkai banner of Propagation? It is as if the US founding fathers would have continued to hold high the flag of England. You may not agree with the tenets of our sect, the faith and practice of our sect, but we are not a cult.

Mark



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 12:11AM by Nichijew.

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BeingAdagio

@doubtful, "charisma" is a trait shared by both con artists and genuinely great, truly wise individuals.  According to dictionary.com, the word "charisma" (as used above) is defined as, "a spiritual power or personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people." It's neither positive nor negative in itself -- what matters is how it's used. I am not sure I believe that passing a religion on to others in a distorted, self-serving manner is good for either the religion or its adherents, though I realize that point is open to debate.
.

About Ikeda's charisma:

From the "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements" Board, "Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism" (Thanks, Corboy!)

[forum.culteducation.com]

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The mark of a good teacher is when we walk out, we dont so much remember the teacher's own personality, we remember what was taught and are deeply curious about where it applies to us and how we perceive and behave with others. 

If a teacher's stories, charisma or powerful personality persist as vivid after images, thats when mere charmisma is lingering in us as an intoxicant and the Bodhisattva vows warn us to beware of intoxicants. 

Fame and charisma and mob mentality, force of personality become intoxicants when these linger in mind more than the Dharma teaching the famous person was supposed to be there to teach. 

The best teachers, like members of a choir, vanish into the singing and what remains is the teaching or the music, not the personality of any one singer.
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Think of your favorite schoolteacher. You liked, even loved him or her. You valued his or her kindness, insight, ability to listen, enthusiasm and/or knowledge of the subject. This person helped you develop confidence, or interest in the subject, learn new skills...and/or succeed at something that you thought you couldn't do.

It's important to appreciate and value what a good teacher did for you -- but does that teacher expect you to devote the rest of your life to him, or her? To follow what he or she says, even after you are grown and out of school? To hang around them constantly, telling them how wonderful they are?

I had a really great eleventh-grade English teacher. However, I don't think she ever wanted or expected me to devote the rest of my life to following her. I think her goal was that I learn to write clearly and correctly, and critically evaluate what I read -- so that I could achieve my OWN goals for further education and a career.

That's the exact opposite of Ikeda's mentor-disciple teaching. The disciple does not get to take the teaching, and become independent; disciples always follow the mentor and always "owe" the mentor. There is no graduation.

Nichiren Daishonin himself said, "Follow the law and not the person."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 03:25AM by tsukimoto.

@ wakatta,

I see your point, I choose option one for a long time until the M/D thing went into overdrive , then I chose option two. It is not easy to realize you were in a cult, and for such a long time.

@BeingAdagio,, I so agree with you, I just want a simple practice to chant and study in a group of like minded people without all the debates. It would be a refreshing change. Whoever thought the structure of the SGI as it stands today up, must have like unnecessary conflict.

@Wakatta1, You wrote, "as a previously-long-time member I wonder just exactly what standing SGI has to issue their own gohonzons, and what is the difference between them doing such a thing and you or I simply running a gohonzon through the copier? Is it just because they say so?" I couldn't agree with you more. Anyone can create a mandala similar to or exactly like any of the ones used by many sects. SGI will not permit this because if they could not control the distribution of the Gohonzons, they could also not require the subscription to to World Tribune, which they include in the "donation" when a member joins. They could also not control membership lists. I won't go so far as to accuse them of greed re: the Gohonzon cost+subscription. In the US not enough people join to make the profit significant.
@tsukimoto, thanks for reminding me of the numerous hardcore Gakkai members who died prematurely. Perhaps I am becoming too open to too many ideas and practices but I have met so many people who have overcome serious illnesses and hardships using other practices. They also seem happy and committed to self-improvement. So the Nichiren practice could be said to be as good as any of the others, but not SGI. Many of these successful people do not spend hours chanting; attending, organizing, & facilitating endless meetings; skimming repetitive publications; and devoting their lives to mentor/disciple--but they get the same stuff that SGI members hope and strive for. Sometimes they do even better since they do not have some ridiculous expectation that their practice will get them anything they want. No one gets everything they want. Shakyamuni made that clear in the 4/8 sufferings. Thanks also for including, "The mark of a good teacher is when we walk out, we don't so much remember the teacher's own personality, we remember what was taught and are deeply curious about where it applies to us...If a teacher's stories, charisma or powerful personality persist as vivid after images, that's when mere charisma is lingering in us as an intoxicant and the Bodhisattva vows warn us to beware of intoxicants. Fame and charisma and mob mentality, force of personality become intoxicants when these linger in mind more than the Dharma teaching the famous person was supposed to be there to teach. The best teachers, like members of a choir, vanish into the singing and what remains is the teaching or the music, not the personality of any one singer." That's brilliant and true. I wonder how the hardcore members would respond to that. Ikeda has often spoken about having a perspective that spans a thousand years. However, I am sure that he has been misled by the huge membership boom in post-war Japan. Since the US through MacArthur established freedom of religion there, the Gakkai was able to flourish since it appealed to a war-torn nation's desire to rebuild itself. The aspects some of us would find objectionable, like materialism, MADE the Gakkai what it is precisely because of the time and place. We here have not had that kind of devastation. The membership boom here took place in the late 70s & 80s and most of those members left. Currently the Gakkai blames George Williams for that, since he did not encourage members to focus on Ikeda as THE mentor. However I prefer my theory: people in middle-class countries do not rely on religious practices to get stuff. Even those who might, will do so temporarily.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 08:03AM by doubtful.

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backnforth
Nichikan was a reformer and we need to have that sort of courage now that SGI is totally off course.

You are right Nichikan was a reformer, but on this I am sorry to inform you that SGI only tells half of the story.
It was Nichikan who turned Nichiren-Shoshu to what it is today including making the position of the High Priest as outstanding as it is. Before Nichikan even Nichiren Shohu (or rather Taiseki-ji and sub-temples, as the sects name came much much later) was pretty in line with other Nichiren temples, with certain temples having different ideas on doctrinal issues. In other (traditional) Nichiren Sects you will find not one priest having so much authority as the High Priest in Nichiren Shohsu, you are more likely ,as for example in in Nichiren Shu, to find a sort of council of the ordained deciding on doctrinal issues. On top of that most temples are autonomous in the sense that the may join another sect. An even in Nichiren Shu you will find it hard to find THE final agreement on certain doctrinal issues.
Having this in mind SGI is at the moment in a 'fine old' Taiseki-ji tradition in the way it underlines the role of Mr. Ikeda. I can very vividly remember how SGI in the early days of the split argued against Nikken¡'s authoritarian style - issues that none of us have really witnessed. What do we have now though? We have a president (and his two predecessors) who are given an eternal god like status witch even Nikken never had. And as we are all just humans I am sure not every one in Nichiren Shoshu might agree with the respective High Priest, at least they can be sure he will hold the seat only for a certain period in time.
So as stated before the core of the split issue to my mind was and is that both of these old men probably said 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me'.
So in the end the function of the High Priest was probably even to small for Mr.Ikeda he was thinking in much bigger, eternal dimensions. So much on V I S I O N :-)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 04:01PM by Rothaus.

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TheVoid

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doubtful
@ The Anti-Cult, You wrote, "To the followers, President Ikeda Daisaku is the 2nd coming of Christ.

If i am not mistaken in the Ghandi, King, Ikeda video, one of the talking heads equates Ikeda to a modern day Jesus Christ! It's quite a few years ago that i saw this, but i am sure that is what was said. Can anyone remember?

--------The talking head that you are refering to was Dr larence carter,,the quote was,"he is a solid human being,i feel that ghandi king,and jesus are liveing inside dr ikeda'' this is not to be taken to mean he is jesus,Dr carter is expresing his firm coviction that Dr ikeda is a true modernday peace bulider and educator...hope this helps.

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Dioforever
Dr carter is expresing his firm coviction that Dr ikeda is a true modernday peace bulider and educator...hope this helps.

Witch does not sound much better either …

I have been lurking on here a bit. After long time in SGI, I decided to practice independently. I came to this site to read others experience and maybe get some support in this separation. I don't necessarily believe SGI is a cult per se, merely an organization that doesn't meet my needs anymore and has a lot of problems, including multiple divergent and unreconciled personalities. With that said, just letting you all know that I won't continue on this board because I see some things in the messages here which are truly negative and even disturbing. 1. There are many messages which interpret SGI issues and actions with pure conjecture without any basis in reality - to me there is more than enough factual issues with the SGI and this is exactly what I sometimes experienced in the SGI, jumping to conslusions about members and their situations. 2. There are some with agendas of proselitizing and maybe other hidden agendas - thank you , but there are many other sites for information on alternatives and I am tired of manipulation. 3. Finally, most disturbing to me is the recent discussion of misfortune of SGI members citing names and with editorial description - this is the exact same behavior people have decried here and I find it offensive.

There are several posters here that I would have liked to communicate more but with the newer overall tone, I believe its time to move on and move forward in my independence in a postive way.