@Morgaine, you wrote, "I agree so much with most of what you have said, my experience with the Gakkai was not all bad and I have to have appreciation for the many sincere members who supported me in times of need. I think it is important to point out the ways the Gakkai is off, but also to remember those who did help you. Remembering the good times is the thing that keeps me from thinking that it was a complete waste of time."
Thanks. Perhaps my sentimental reaction to the RTE videos and the "Forever Sensei" video is a way of telling myself that it was not a complete waste of time since we did not change the world or grow the organization significantly.

@cyclops, You indicated that some leaders would tell new members who were having problems to "accept Ikeda as their mentor to attain true happiness." I have heard that before. In fact, it must be in the training that leaders get, the ready-made phrases to give out. You also wrote, "@ another meeting they were doing a mind melt check and having everyone go around the room and expound that Ikeda is their mentor and not just in practice but some even said a mentor in their life! And let’s not forget the monthly Ikeda DVD so that he can pontificate on all his accomplishments. Then there’s the youth coming up to you and making unquantifiable statements like Ikeda is my mentor or my only mentor! I have tried in vain to talk to some of them about what they think and I got nowhere everything out of their mouths has something to do with Ikeda! Very sad to see indeed. Reminds me of youth movements in China and North Korea and the dear leader concept!" That kind of thing is what drove me out of the organization. My question is, does anyone at the top of SGI see that this mentor/disciple thing will hurt them in the long run? I cannot believe that anyone becomes happy or successful simply because they see Ikeda as their mentor. I have always thought that people become happy or successful by challenging their struggles, maintaining a realistic expectation of life's ups and downs, and by studying or working hard. Does anyone need Ikeda to tell them that? Isn't that what parents, guidance counselors, teachers, and relatives do? I am sure that some time in the near future many of the current YD will realize that they have been duped. For all of SGI's talk of dreams, when exactly are the YD supposed to work on them? The YD have been super busy with RTE since last fall. Does anyone really believe that any of the participants will be one step closer to achieving anything?
@DavidM, you wrote to me, "it seems you did have a a lot of happy times when you were in youth division. Do you think your judgment of the present circumstances could be clouded by your own experiences, in an almost sentimental way?" You need not worry about offending me. You are probably right. The song made me sentimental which made me forget why I became active on this forum--but just temporarily. The direction they have been going in for years should not come as a surprise. The existence of The Human Revolution and Ikeda's bad poetry were always constant reminders of the organization's cult-like qualities. Nevertheless, we were not being told to accept him as our mentor in order to be happy or achieve our goals until pretty recently. This has backfired because someone like me would have never joined a forum like this or criticized Ikeda openly. The many older and newer members who have left also demonstrate that their strategy is failing. Finally, SGI must be desperate. The organization is not growing significantly and they might be afraid that once the charismatic leader is gone, the rest of the members might leave. Someone else recently posted something I found interesting, something to the effect that the days of big organizations might be over. Most people can access everything on line, including critical views of anything out there. If people continue downloading Gohonzons, organizations like SGI might face extinction.

OF course some of the YD is wakening up – in another district a YD member stated that their mentor was their parents – and no mention of Ikeda – a youth division leader shouted @ the YD member – stating that the member needed to get their head straight because Ikeda should be their mentor first before all others – the YD member just got up and walked out! I see this lot where sincere educated young members are just getting up and leaving! I have also watched members with 15+ years stop coming to meeting – one told a Chapter Leader that he was tired of the Ikeda rallies disguise themselves as districts meetings!!!!!!
Lastly on a different note @ another meeting the district didn’t show the Ikeda DVD the YD leader interrupted the meeting and demanded to see the DVD! In amazement to all the YD leader got up and played the DVD. Afterwards @ a YD meeting the YD leader stated that even if all the members didn’t want to see the Ikeda DVD – YD leader said I know what’s best for the members and I insisted on it! Even got up and played the DVD over objections of the members! Because I know what’s best for them even if they don’t! AMAZING!!!!!!

@cyclops
When the videos fist started to be shown at KR Gongyo, my husband, who was a chapter leader, did not like it at all. One time, it was his chapter's turn to plan KR Gongyo, so he suggested that another DVD be shown, not the monthly Ikeda video. The DVD he chose was about, among other things, events that had occurred in Turkey and SGI's philosophy of world peace. The other members that were planning the meeting agreed that this was a great DVD to show, so the meeting was planned around it. Well, the senior leader who attended KR Gongyo did not like it at all that we were not watching Sensei's video! He actually was critical of the DVD that we watched, even though it was made by SGI.

No wonder that my husband eventually was relieved of his position as chapter leader!

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cyclops
OF course some of the YD is wakening up – in another district a YD member stated that their mentor was their parents – and no mention of Ikeda – a youth division leader shouted @ the YD member – stating that the member needed to get their head straight because Ikeda should be their mentor first before all others – the YD member just got up and walked out! I see this lot where sincere educated young members are just getting up and leaving! I have also watched members with 15+ years stop coming to meeting – one told a Chapter Leader that he was tired of the Ikeda rallies disguise themselves as districts meetings!!!!!!
Lastly on a different note @ another meeting the district didn’t show the Ikeda DVD the YD leader interrupted the meeting and demanded to see the DVD! In amazement to all the YD leader got up and played the DVD. Afterwards @ a YD meeting the YD leader stated that even if all the members didn’t want to see the Ikeda DVD – YD leader said I know what’s best for the members and I insisted on it! Even got up and played the DVD over objections of the members! Because I know what’s best for them even if they don’t! AMAZING!!!!!!

Its good to know!
For once some real encouragement from SGI stories. ;)
Theres been a lot of talk on the forum recently about what we might call SGI's 'second stage' Ikeda push. The first stage starting around 5 years ago, the second stage beginning with Rock The Era.

It'll be interesting to see what SGI does when the dust from RTE settles. We know district leaders report the attendances at meetings to their superiors (SGI would say they are not 'superiors' but they do have the power to demote them so for all intents and purposes they are 'superiors', anyway...) so what will the statistics show? Will discussion meetings across the country be packed full of new youth? Or will the dwindling numbers be accelerated in the aftermath?

Hopefully we'll hear soon.

@DavidM

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Hopefully we'll hear soon.

I don't want to sound too cynical here, but bear in mind that all these shenanigans have been going on for YEARS! The propaganda machine developed over years, and the arrogance of upper leadership developed along with it.

Most members I knew before I "Jumped ship" were very ambivalent.

On one hand they didn't like being herded like cattle or berated by the Japanese WD when they didn't cough up their money quick enough. But on the other hand, magical thinking caused them to worry that maybe, possibly, all those stories of "Batchi" were true, and by dropping out their lives would go to pieces. As a result you have mostly passive-aggressive folks who just stay around, silently grumble but who always can be counted on to sing "forever sensei". (Don't get me wrong, my experience with the SGI membership was not bad, I was always treated politely and kindly by the "members". The leaders at my level - district and then chapter - were fine people as well but were drinking the kool-aid unfortunately and as a result would parrot things that in a different setting they would have been embarrassed having done).

To also touch on the previous topic of the "split". Many of those individuals seemed to swing one way or the other, i.e. Become foaming-at-the-mouth temple bashers, or else step way back from their activity level and just return to member level (as did I for a brief period).

The "NEW" SGI is far more troubling to me after seen a lot of the evolution and I often wonder how those I knew in Chicago have fared since then.

On a side note (and I may have already told this one so please excuse my repeating). When Caesar rode triumphantly into Rome, the Senate stationed a slave on his chariot holding a crown of laurels above his head, but who also whispered in his ear for the entire trip "Remember Caesar, Thou art Mortal!"

Of course that wouldn't apply to Ikea, he can always purchase another life with all the money he has collected, can't he?


Wakatta

@cyclops, You wrote, "I see this lot where sincere educated young members are just getting up and leaving! I have also watched members with 15+ years stop coming to meeting – one told a Chapter Leader that he was tired of the Ikeda rallies disguise themselves as districts meetings!!!!!! "
This is precisely why I cannot return to the organization. Despite the sentimental reaction I might have to some things like "Forever Sensei," it really is just a song for me. I am grateful to Ikeda, even if others here think I should not be, but I don't like the idea of young people being conditioned to take him on as a mentor. True, Ikeda sees Toda as his mentor but he KNEW him personally. Years ago whenever some of us would bring this up, we were told that meeting OUR mentor was not necessary. Do they not see how illogical this is? I can understand that the organization wants the members to have the drive to increase membership like Ikeda did much earlier in his life. Any religious organization needs its zealots willing to bring in new converts. That is reality, but doesn't the organization see that getting people fired up over a person and not a philosophy will ultimately backfire? I really wish a new President of the SGI would assume office WHILE Ikeda is alive. I wish this leader would find some creative way to focus this organization around Nichiren Buddhism and other Buddhist perspectives. Like many of you on this forum, I love Buddhism but I have also come to see that Nichiren is not the final word on it. I don't expect SGI to surrender its focus on him, but not to the exclusion of Shakyamuni, Theravada, Zen--or other Nichiren sects. Perhaps the range would be too wide then but there would be a lot more to offer. I don't assume to know for certain what SGI should do, but what it should not do has been written all over the publications, meetings, and testimonials for years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2010 01:17PM by doubtful.

Dear Doubtful:

Shijo Kingo, for example, never abandoned Nichiren nor did he doubt the Lotus Sutra. He witnessed the true benefit with his own eyes at Tatsunokuchi. The strong faith of Shijo Kingo in the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren was the cause for his own fortuitous change of circumstances. We too can experience the very same proof.

Nichijew

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doubtful
@cyclops, You wrote, "I see this lot where sincere educated young members are just getting up and leaving! I have also watched members with 15+ years stop coming to meeting – one told a Chapter Leader that he was tired of the Ikeda rallies disguise themselves as districts meetings!!!!!! "
This is precisely why I cannot return to the organization. Despite the sentimental reaction I might have to some things like "Forever Sensei," it really is just a song for me. I am grateful to Ikeda, even if others here think I should not be, but I don't like the idea of young people being conditioned to take him on as a mentor. True, Ikeda sees Toda as his mentor but he KNEW him personally. Years ago whenever some of us would bring this up, we were told that meeting OUR mentor was not necessary. Do they not see how illogical this is? I can understand that the organization wants the members to have the drive to increase membership like Ikeda did much earlier in his life. Any religious organization needs its zealots willing to bring in new converts. That is reality, but doesn't the organization see that getting people fired up over a person and not a philosophy will ultimately backfire? I really wish a new President of the SGI would assume office WHILE Ikeda is alive. I wish this leader would find some creative way to focus this organization around Nichiren Buddhism and other Buddhist perspectives. Like many of you on this forum, I love Buddhism but I have also come to see that Nichiren is not the final word on it. I don't expect SGI to surrender its focus on him, but not to the exclusion of Shakyamuni, Theravada, Zen--or other Nichiren sects. Perhaps the range would be too wide then but there would be a lot more to offer. I don't assume to know for certain what SGI should do, but what it should not do has been written all over the publications, meetings, and testimonials for years.

I am with you and everyone who see the folly of this mentor mantra – I had a few youths come up to me and tell me that Ikeda was their mentor! So I asked them – When did you last talk to him? Or when did you text or e-mail him for guidance on your issues? I just got the deer in the headlights look! SO I said you see first in Buddhism it is a Master – disciple relation – and it’s a two way interpersonal thing – it can’t be one way – because just stating Ikeda is your mentor does not make it so! Because his communication is one way – he dictates to you what he expects from you – but you have no way of interaction with him like asking him questions on whatever he says! That’s a lot of things – but not a mentor - or Master – please take time to read and do some research Master – disciple and then like me find someone with wisdom and establish a meaningful relationship so that you can understand the concepts of Buddhism – The joinery to enlightenment is not a easy path to take!

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doubtful
I really wish a new President of the SGI would assume office WHILE Ikeda is alive. I wish this leader would find some creative way to focus this organization around Nichiren Buddhism and other Buddhist perspectives.

I think this was not the purpose of SGI at least since Ikeda took up presidency. For the core membership Buddhism, SGI, Nichiren-Buddhism, World Peace, Daily lives are one and the same as Ikeda. Anyone who thought joinig SGI for a another purpose except to accept Ikeda as a 'Mentor' is in the wrong club. SGI and the belief in Ikedaism can not be sepperated.

What is the difference between an evangelical Christian saying "You must except Jesus Christ as your personal savior" and an SGI member saying "You must except Daisaku Ikeda as your mentor"? Nothing. Personally, both statements give me the creeps.