Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Nichijew ()
Date: June 08, 2010 08:44PM

Quote
quiet one
Interesting article, tsukimoto.

"Sometimes people select a dharma-teacher or choose a particular tradition during a very low period in their personal life. When that happens, when someone chooses a person or a tradition because they have a need to lean on someone or they lack confidence or self-esteem, then there is a real vulnerability for abuse and when that dependence is placed on someone, given that you are not really able to use the critical facility, then there is scope for abuse and disappointment."

I'm sure that this is true. Many of us, myself included, were facing a crisis, a serious problem, or a low point in life. I look back on when I got "shakabuked" and feel that I was so vulnerable. A real good target for them. Anyone else feel that way?

I agree. I don't so much fault my friend who introduced me. He believed he was giving me a Rolex that turned out to be a five dollar knockoff. I fault the top leaders for selling us a watch that we thought was real and me, for not doing my homework. The SGI ends justify the means sales pitch is really perverse and to a desperate man or women, it was just what we wanted to hear.

Nichijew

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Anongirl ()
Date: June 08, 2010 10:28PM

Wow, its so great to see all of you folk here, I dont feel so alone. I was a member for 6 years but havent practised now for over a year. Being in SGi did really help me for a while, it helped me to stay focused and positive but much of the time I was chanting and my inner self was staying the same. I never understood why members would give me a photo of a japanese man Id never met or why we had "Three cheers for sensei" at some courses. One of the leaflets at one of the courses was entitled "Following our master into a new era" and i couldnt help but think "hek a minute ago he was just a mentor!". I was also given terrible advice about my health towards the end of my membership by a ranting member. I dont want to go into details. I remember thinking these people are lunatics. Its been hard breaking away but Im glad ive managed it. I never felt connected to sensei and it infuriated me why I was told i had to feel connected to attain enlightenment. I suppose i thought if I just chanted one more time, helped out as soka/liliac ,attended one more course/meeting my mental illness would disappear. Im now getting proper help and therapy and cant believe some of the things i was told or some of the things I did. Peace to everyone x

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Anongirl ()
Date: June 08, 2010 10:34PM

I think thomas made a great point. If my depression and anxiety were bad I would think it was because I hadnt chanted enough/wasnt studying enough etc when I shouldve been going to get proper help!!! Thankfully I have now!

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: tsukimoto ()
Date: June 09, 2010 12:03AM

Quote
Nichijew
Quote
quiet one
.

"Sometimes people select a dharma-teacher or choose a particular tradition during a very low period in their personal life. When that happens, when someone chooses a person or a tradition because they have a need to lean on someone or they lack confidence or self-esteem, then there is a real vulnerability for abuse and when that dependence is placed on someone, given that you are not really able to use the critical facility, then there is scope for abuse and disappointment."

I'm sure that this is true. Many of us, myself included, were facing a crisis, a serious problem, or a low point in life. I look back on when I got "shakabuked" and feel that I was so vulnerable. A real good target for them. Anyone else feel that way?

I agree. I don't so much fault my friend who introduced me. He believed he was giving me a Rolex that turned out to be a five dollar knockoff. I fault the top leaders for selling us a watch that we thought was real and me, for not doing my homework. The SGI ends justify the means sales pitch is really perverse and to a desperate man or women, it was just what we wanted to hear.

Nichijew

This was true for me also. My fiance dumped me and I got fired...and then my best friend, who had joined SGI, started inviting me to meetings. She's a sincere, kind person who just wanted me to be happy again. I was depressed, and worried about my future. I wanted to believe in SGI's promises -- that I could be happy and achieve everything I'd ever wanted.

Eventually I did get my life on track. It seemed as if this was thanks to SGI. Now, of course, I think, "I would have gotten my life together without SGI." People lose jobs, and relationships break up all the time. A person can be very upset at the time, but almost everyone eventually gets over the loss. You find a new job, you meet new people and have other relationships.

I had just learned this way of thinking in SGI -- the good things that happen to you are due to SGI, the bad things that happen are either karma that you need to clean up -- or caused by failure to support SGI enough. So I learned to look at my life through this filter. The way I'd learned to think made it difficult to leave SGI, even after I started seeing all the red flags.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Blue Lady ()
Date: June 09, 2010 12:20AM

One question I keep asking myself is this” If I were a Baptist or Catholic would I feel so bad about my faith?”
I would go to church like a good little parishioner. I would give money to the collection box and go home after Sunday services. End of it – no phone calls from the Priest or layity.
If I were a Baptist I might get involve in cleaning the church or some other fund raiser.
However, I ask myself the bigger question would I be judge ,as I think I am being judge on my faith in the SGI? ---not necessarily on my faith in Nichiren Buddhism.
I believe that one is judge in SGI based on the amount of guest you bring to the meeting in a given month or year.
You are judge based on how many people or families you have sponsored.
You are judge based on Zaimu, May Contribution, and Publications.
How many meetings in a month you attend.
For examples
1. Super morning Gongyo every day at the Center
2. Intro meetings that occur 365 days a year at the CCC
3. Kosen Rufu Gongyo
4. Planning meetings
5. Divisional meetings
6. Gosho Study
7. Leaders meetings
8. Special events – parades, rock the era etc.
9. Are you at the center every Sunday? If not why not? I was there I did not see you?
10. Do you come out when big leaders are in town?
11. How many home visit can you do in a month at least 4 to 7 visit to be effective
12. Who are you calling?
13. Why cant you drop everything and come to the meeting I just called 3 hours ago. You should want to do this( as I was told by my Area WD leader)
14. Are your district failing or victorious
I think this is the reason members/leaders FEEL they have a right to give you their opinions on HOW to live your life based on criteria’s from which they can choose ---such as above.

Nothing at all to do with your inner Faith which they cannot see, hear or feel .

What do you guys think?

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: tsukimoto ()
Date: June 09, 2010 02:33AM

Blue Lady, I felt the same way. It finally hit me a few years in: No matter how much I did for SGI, it would never be enough. Leaders would always expect more. "Good" members went to lots of activities and meetings, called and home-visited people often, and cleaned the community center. They talked constantly about how they "wanted to follow our mentor's heart," dragged friends and relatives to meetings and pressured them to join SGI, and gave lots of experiences at meetings. They cheered loudly at the Ikeda videos.

You're right, inner faith, who even took that into consideration? Or whether you were honest and compassionate in your day-to-day life. Nobody cared about that either. It seemed that there was so much rushing around in SGI, that you couldn't just sit still and think about what the basics of your faith really were, or how you should live as a Buddhist. It was just go go go run run run! If you're exhausted, who gives a damn. Don't be such a wimp, chant for more energy! Don't think, just do!

I know a lot of Catholics and Lutherans. Some do just go to church on Sunday and that's it. Others get more involved. Many complain about constant requests for money. There does seem to be way less pressure to go to constant rounds of meetings, and try to convert everyone. The Catholics and Lutherans seem to accept that faith is also an inner experience, as well as social. A Catholic woman I know once told me "Religion is man-made, spirituality is God-given."

The Christians that I've known also seem to accept that having faith should mean that you try to live your life in a moral way. Yes, the Christians I know are human, and screw up, and there are always hypocrites..but there seems to be the acknowledgement that at least one should try to behave morally...with responsibility, integrity, empathy, and kindness. I just didn't see that in SGI, where it seems as if you can do anything, so long as you are chanting and working for SGI.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2010 02:37AM by tsukimoto.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Blue Lady ()
Date: June 09, 2010 03:31AM

I shared this with a fellow SGI members. AS she said J. Toda said this is a Business.
Only guestion why is Linda seen as a liablity



Quote
Nichijew
Hey David...

Minutes of the SGI Top Salaried Senior Leader New Year's Board Meeting

Board Members, sitting around a large brass table with marble legs:

Present: Daisaku Ikeda, Hiromasa Ikeda, Minoru Hirada, Itchy Wada, Nobutaka Kumagai, Koji Shinohara, Toshinori Iwazumi, Archibald E. Asawa

Quorum present? Yes

Others Present:

Exec. USA Director: Danny Nagashima, Chang Dong Huang, Arnold Kawasaki

Proceedings:
· Meeting called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chair, Hiromasa Ikeda
· (Last month's) meeting minutes were amended and approved

· Chief Executive's Report: "It was recommend by our wonderful and compassionate mentor for life, our dear President Ikeda that if we are not able to find an increase in revenues by 15% this year, some drastic changes will be made and neither you nor the members will be happy. This is the guidance given to me by Sensei. He also taught me the meaning of total victory. Then regarding our plains for Kyushu and East Asia...

Daisaku Ikeda interupts:"If you can't get a across a moat ten feet wide, how the hell are you going to earn the huge bonuses that my son promised you for 2010?'

Chief Executive: "That right, just yester......"

Daisaku Ikeda again interrupts: "We just spent seventy five million refurbishing the Headquarters and International Culture building as well as your offices. Who do you think is going to pay for it, me and Hiromasu? Right, your members. Banging on the brass and marble table, "If you can't lift this table, you weaklings, I will find someone who can, right Hiromasu?

Hiromasu Ikeda: "Yes father"

Chief Executive: "Lets hear a report about Soka University of America from Arnold Kawasaki."

Arnold Kawasaki: "We are doing tremendously, total, absolute, complete, victory. We have increased our enrollment by 75% from 474 to 927 students and we only lost 96 million dollars last year but our holdings and endowment from SGI North and South American members donations increased by 430% and the university and its land holdings is now worth an estimated 1.34 billion dollars up from one billion dollars.'

Daisaku Ikeda interupts, again banging on the desk while shouting in English "GRRREEAAT GRRREEAAT": "Arnold is a model for all of you and he's only 55 years old, practically a youth division member."

Arnold: "HAI. We are also working very hard creating the illusion that we are non-denominational with the ex Mayor of Los Angeles Tom Bradley, now on our board of directors along with Rick Warren . Sensei is the most wonderful Sensei in the whole entire world."

Daisaku Ikeda: "Rick Wallen? Who is he?"

Arnold Kawasaki: "He is gleat leader of the evangelical Christian movement in America. He is great fundraiser and is looked upon by millions of Christians as a model of faith. We got him cheap, for $1,800,000.00 ."

Everyone: "Ah So!!! Excellent, Excellent", as their long broad tongues reached up to the heaven of Aizen Myo, the SGI patron saint of money laundering.

Itchy Wada: "Sensei has organized a fantastic week for us at our nature and culture center in Palau, don't bring your wives, if you know what I mean but you have to show Sensei the deepest consideration and work very hard to increase our revenues, what do you say?"

Everyone in unison, "HAI, HAI, Thank You Sensei, HAI HAI"

Daisaku Ikeda: 'As you all know, my health hasn't been up to snuff lately, so Hiramasu will be taking over many of my responsibilities, particularly dolling out the cash and traveling here and there to pick up my awards. You must support and protect him". Seeing Danny Nagashima sleeping from jet lag, Ikeda shouts, "RIGHT DANNY BOY" as

Danny snaps to attention.

Daisaku Ikeda: Danny, please tell us how the Rock the Era for Sensei movement is progressing. Without a new influx of brainwas... uh, uhh, highly motivated youth, how are we going to increase revenues by 15%?"

Danny Nagashima, again half asleep: "Lock the Elah is going GLATE,", clearing his throat and again snapping to attention, ROCK THE ERA IS GOING GREAT. We got this Clown, Philip Brett going to sing his famous song Seeds for Sensei [actually named You Are All That You Need but he couldn't tell that to Sensei] and Vanissa Shaw is looking hot!"

Everyone nods in agreement.

Danny Nagashima: "But I don't know about that weasal Nathan Gauer, Danny Hall and especially Ian MCailraith. Danny and Ian are complainingg about their $50,000 bonuses and Nathan is wondering when he will become salaried. I don't know if they are completely on board?"

Daisaku Ikeda red in the face and shouting, "MAHALLLOOO, MAHHHAAALLLOOOOO" [Fools, Fools]

Hiramosu Ikeda: "Take it easy father, you know your pressure and heart..."

Daisaku Ikeda: "SHUT UP, you think Nichiren Daishonin worried about his blood pressure and heart, you are all Mahaloo, except for Arnold over here, come Arnold, lets go out for Soba noodles and leave these fools here to deeply reflect on the next Zaimu Campaign. You got that secretary, I want this a part of the minutes, don't miss a word, no one is going to see them anyway but I like to review them before the next meeting." Ikeda walks out with Arnold...

Other Topics [Led by Mr Hirada]: "Sasaki asserts that our organization must ensure its name is associated with the Victory Over Violence, most people make absolutely no connection. Too many gaijin have their hands in the pot. Wherever you have such an exhibit make sure Sensei's posters are prominently displayed. Also Simon Weisanthal is giving us a hard time. You Archie (Asawa) bring him another million, you know how greedy they are those green eyed devils."

'The Nichiren Shoshu, especially Nichimyo is also starting trouble. He changed their doctrine, declaring that their members are indeed Bodhisattvas of the Earth, rather than followers of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. See if you can throw a monkey wrench into their plans Kumagai, money is no object. We already lost six senior leaders in Taiwan, three in the Phillipines, and one in the United States thanks to their machinations."

"On the Gohonzon question, we have just got to get a Nichiren inscribed Gohonzon. That heretic Tsuchiya over there in Kyoto has the members all up in arms about the lousy Nichikan Gohonzon. Trouble is, he is uncorruptable. What do you think? Should we crush Tsuchiya like a bug or should we start to phase out the Nichikan Gohonzon. I think, even the pioneers would prefer a Nichiren Gohonzon, there are tons of them on the net. We don't even need one of our own. How that bug Tsuchiya and his shitty little sect held on to three of them [Nichiren Gohonzon] I can't understand for the life of me. We offered their chief priest forty eight million dollars for one. Don't get me started."

"The organization should generate revenues where possible from the bosses books and thanks to Lavorra Perry creating those cartoons for Sensei, we have a giant stream of revenue. I think we should make her a Zone Chief. Linda Johnson is becoming quite a liability. We should express our sympathy and support for her outwardly because she could make some problems for us. Lets keep her busy with our legal matters and ask Matilda Buck to give the gaijin our guidances."

"Shinohara explained that consultant, Wacky Nobu, reviewed the organization's accounting procedures and found them to be satisfactory, in preparation for the upcoming yearly financial audit. One book for the Japanese, one book for the Americans, and the real book for Sensei. Nobu recommends that we ensure the auditor provides a management letter along with the audit financial report and of course we will need three originals."

"Shinohara also reviewed highlights, trends and issues from the balance sheet, income statement and cash flow statement. Issues include that high accounts receivables require Finance Committee attention to policies and procedures to ensure our organization receives more donations on time. After brief discussion of the issues and suggestions about how to ensure receiving the donations on time MOTION to accept financial statements; seconded and passed."

'Shinohara also presented members with a draft of the reworded By-laws paragraph that would mandate members conduct actions only face to face so neither a paper nor electronic trail is ever maintained. He suggested review and a resolution to change the By-laws accordingly. Iwazumi suggested we immediately notify each and every Zone Chief of these proposals before the next Board meeting.'

Hirada Interrupts: "We must also cut the legal and accounting costs by 10%, at least by sixty seven million dollars and our TV and advertising expenditures are to rise by forty eight million dollars, according to Sensei. We must make this happen. Total victory for Sensei!"

Hiromasu Ikeda: "Total Victory for Sensei! Thank you Mr Hirada, I motion to close the meeting."

Seconded unanimously.

Meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
Minutes submitted by Secretary, Ikegami.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Blue Lady ()
Date: June 09, 2010 03:33AM

"try to live your life in a moral way." YOU are so right we dont bother with that its all about the M&D



Quote
tsukimoto
Blue Lady, I felt the same way. It finally hit me a few years in: No matter how much I did for SGI, it would never be enough. Leaders would always expect more. "Good" members went to lots of activities and meetings, called and home-visited people often, and cleaned the community center. They talked constantly about how they "wanted to follow our mentor's heart," dragged friends and relatives to meetings and pressured them to join SGI, and gave lots of experiences at meetings. They cheered loudly at the Ikeda videos.

You're right, inner faith, who even took that into consideration? Or whether you were honest and compassionate in your day-to-day life. Nobody cared about that either. It seemed that there was so much rushing around in SGI, that you couldn't just sit still and think about what the basics of your faith really were, or how you should live as a Buddhist. It was just go go go run run run! If you're exhausted, who gives a damn. Don't be such a wimp, chant for more energy! Don't think, just do!

I know a lot of Catholics and Lutherans. Some do just go to church on Sunday and that's it. Others get more involved. Many complain about constant requests for money. There does seem to be way less pressure to go to constant rounds of meetings, and try to convert everyone. The Catholics and Lutherans seem to accept that faith is also an inner experience, as well as social. A Catholic woman I know once told me "Religion is man-made, spirituality is God-given."

The Christians that I've known also seem to accept that having faith should mean that you try to live your life in a moral way. Yes, the Christians I know are human, and screw up, and there are always hypocrites..but there seems to be the acknowledgement that at least one should try to behave morally...with responsibility, integrity, empathy, and kindness. I just didn't see that in SGI, where it seems as if you can do anything, so long as you are chanting and working for SGI.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: June 09, 2010 04:00AM

"Religion is man-made, spirituality is God-given."

Well, I am not to sure about morals … its a relative thing in respect to sexual orientation at times especially in case of hard-liners. And at the moment the catholic church isn't much of a shining example with its bigotry and double standards. Having said that the lay community is far more outspoken than the SGI-sheep. But the quote above is still valid. SGI isn't much about spirituality I guess we all made that experience.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: tsukimoto ()
Date: June 09, 2010 04:21AM

Quote
Rothaus
"Religion is man-made, spirituality is God-given."

Well, I am not to sure about morals … its a relative thing in respect to sexual orientation at times especially in case of hard-liners. And at the moment the catholic church isn't much of a shining example with its bigotry and double standards. Having said that the lay community is far more outspoken than the SGI-sheep. But the quote above is still valid. SGI isn't much about spirituality I guess we all made that experience.

It's true enough that Christianity has been used to justify bad treatment of gays. It's interesting that some of the fundamentalists who have been most openly against gays...have been caught soliciting sex with men.

As for the Catholics...most of the lay members and priests I know seem to be good people. And as you say, the lay members are so much more outspoken than the SGI members. Despite all the bull about papal infallibility, Catholics will criticize the church's actions and decisions, and speak openly about what their faith means to them. I can't even imagine SGI members speaking out on anything but an SGI-approved forum.

Some of the senior leaders of the Catholic Church are like the senior leadership of SGI, or an oil company -- their power has corrupted them, and made them forget the people that they are supposed to serve.

And Josei Toda was quoted as saying that he asked his members about their success, not their faith, because the Gohonzon was a "wish-fulfilling machine" and good members should be practicing so that their health and businesses would be successful.

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