Thank you so much for that. I am so enjoying this forum. It has become an addiction. I will be talking to some leaders about my concerns, probably during the emergency meeting Thursday, scheduled no doubt to deal with the lack of participation in May contribution. I am on my way out, definitely.

Well to be honest I do not believe that the story behind Trets or its American counterpart the FNCC are that mysterious at all. I was at Trets (also for Keibi-service) was always a critical observer and never noticed me or anyone else getting special training. Sure as for anyone who was in a cult its always also a kind of defeat to accept that one could have ever been drawn in into such a thing – mysterious methods and techniques being used makes this “defeat” easier to bear for ones own ego. In my books SGI is quite blunt … its members not very well versed in Buddhism, so I believe even less versed in any sneaky tactics. Its simply that these days SGI is quite blunt about the fact it is about the veneration of Ikeda and SGI as a raison d'etre. Its more obvious that its about making money – for dubious reasons. In Japan for instance is easy to see that SGI is nothing else than a campaign machinery for Komeito. And for God's sake building community centres and holding mass events is not any kind of humanitarian effort either. This alone should be a warning signal to any observer or commentator. Lets face it guys the façade of SGI is simply crumbling and all we can do is talk about our experiences and hope that others do not fall into the same trap. There indeed was a time when I honestly felt I was contributing to a grand idea and cause … I even believed I practised Buddhism and had every right to look down on fellow Buddhists. What about that may contribution was there really a serious drop? What about SGI-Italy are they really splitting up? If it were so then this would be dangerous for SGI in Europe since Italy has the largest membership.

Your posts regarding May Contribution and FNCC are very interesting. It is so refreshing, but challenging to realize I have been apart of a cult the last four years. I have to say that when I participated regularly and came to meetings and wanted support, I didn't get it. Now that I haven't been in contact, all sorts of people are coming out of the woodwork calling me and wanting to chant with me. I feel it is for selfish causes. They want to make the cause to prove to themselves something about their practice. I am tired of that nonsense.

What is helping me is getting counseling and also this board. I need and want more support yet. I looked at SGI as my support system, but I realize now it isn't a support system I want. Looking at it that way, I see it would be normal to feel as lonely as I do. I am concerned that people are chanting for me, and I am going to get swayed, or something bad is going to happen and I will want to chant and take back my practice. I realize I may feel this way for a while as I regain my self esteem.

In February, I had a member say I wasn't standing up for my life when I didn't want to pick her up and bring her to my home to chant. She was the selfish one, but I felt she put the blame on me. I started to look up criticism of the SGI, and came upon this board. It was very interesting to read stuff about the SGI from a non-SGI point of view.

I stayed away from the SGI, and went even as far to block all SGI related e-mails. I then had a bad bout of anxiety in March. It got so bad, that I decided to chant. I didn't know what else to do. I then felt angry with myself that I chanted, and also communicated with SGI Members. I am trying to step away, but I know I have to be patient with myself.

Quote
Findingmywaytoday
Your posts regarding May Contribution and FNCC are very interesting. It is so refreshing, but challenging to realize I have been apart of a cult the last four years. I have to say that when I participated regularly and came to meetings and wanted support, I didn't get it. Now that I haven't been in contact, all sorts of people are coming out of the woodwork calling me and wanting to chant with me. I feel it is for selfish causes. They want to make the cause to prove to themselves something about their practice. I am tired of that nonsense.

What is helping me is getting counseling and also this board. I need and want more support yet. I looked at SGI as my support system, but I realize now it isn't a support system I want. Looking at it that way, I see it would be normal to feel as lonely as I do. I am concerned that people are chanting for me, and I am going to get swayed, or something bad is going to happen and I will want to chant and take back my practice. I realize I may feel this way for a while as I regain my self esteem.

In February, I had a member say I wasn't standing up for my life when I didn't want to pick her up and bring her to my home to chant. She was the selfish one, but I felt she put the blame on me. I started to look up criticism of the SGI, and came upon this board. It was very interesting to read stuff about the SGI from a non-SGI point of view.

I stayed away from the SGI, and went even as far to block all SGI related e-mails. I then had a bad bout of anxiety in March. It got so bad, that I decided to chant. I didn't know what else to do. I then felt angry with myself that I chanted, and also communicated with SGI Members. I am trying to step away, but I know I have to be patient with myself.

Dear FMWT:

There are some very very diverse people and groups that chant, somewhere around thirty sects and literally hundreds of diverse independent faiths and none even close to the SGI except for the Nichiren Shoshu that shares many of the same doctrines as the Soka Gakkai. The Daimoku is a great tool but like any tool, it can be used for good [hammering in a nail] or for bad [hitting someone on the head]. We can't say that the hammer is good or bad, it is the people who use the hammer. Even using the Daimoku for bad, like using a hammer to hit someone on the head, can be a learning experience. One receives Buddhist punishment for misusing the Daimoku as one will go to jail for hitting someone in the head with a hammer. With just woods and nails, one can build a shelter with a hammer.

Nichijew

Quote
Findingmywaytoday
Your posts regarding May Contribution and FNCC are very interesting. It is so refreshing, but challenging to realize I have been apart of a cult the last four years. I have to say that when I participated regularly and came to meetings and wanted support, I didn't get it. Now that I haven't been in contact, all sorts of people are coming out of the woodwork calling me and wanting to chant with me. I feel it is for selfish causes. They want to make the cause to prove to themselves something about their practice. I am tired of that nonsense.

What is helping me is getting counseling and also this board. I need and want more support yet. I looked at SGI as my support system, but I realize now it isn't a support system I want. Looking at it that way, I see it would be normal to feel as lonely as I do. I am concerned that people are chanting for me, and I am going to get swayed, or something bad is going to happen and I will want to chant and take back my practice. I realize I may feel this way for a while as I regain my self esteem.

In February, I had a member say I wasn't standing up for my life when I didn't want to pick her up and bring her to my home to chant. She was the selfish one, but I felt she put the blame on me. I started to look up criticism of the SGI, and came upon this board. It was very interesting to read stuff about the SGI from a non-SGI point of view.

I stayed away from the SGI, and went even as far to block all SGI related e-mails. I then had a bad bout of anxiety in March. It got so bad, that I decided to chant. I didn't know what else to do. I then felt angry with myself that I chanted, and also communicated with SGI Members. I am trying to step away, but I know I have to be patient with myself.

just wanted to say that it wasn't too long ago that I was writing about how anxious I was about leaving. At one point on this thread, I even posted that I thought bad things were happening to me because I left. there are going to be many occasions when you will feel lonely, isolated and lost, not to sound too pessimistic. their community is false. its like a house of cards. but the occasions of feeling lost etc. will decrease. its like breathing techniques when you have a panic attack. hopefully the panic attacks decrease but if they don't you know how to breathe and not get swept away. I have no answers to life's problems and that can feel horrible. but the more I read about other people's experiences within SGI, the more I feel like SGI is like taking xanax. those of us with the need to take them, they work for the time being and have their purpose. but they don't offer long term solutions. I also long for a community, an intact family, and an end to my suffering. but I have to find them another way.

that sounded really depressing but I mean to say you can learn to depend on yourself and build a REALITY BASED support system. its hard to do, but I get better at it each day.

Quote
Findingmywaytoday
I looked at SGI as my support system, but I realize now it isn't a support system I want. Looking at it that way, I see it would be normal to feel as lonely as I do. I am concerned that people are chanting for me, and I am going to get swayed, or something bad is going to happen and I will want to chant and take back my practice. I realize I may feel this way for a while as I regain my self esteem.

In February, I had a member say I wasn't standing up for my life when I didn't want to pick her up and bring her to my home to chant.

I stayed away from the SGI, and went even as far to block all SGI related e-mails. I then had a bad bout of anxiety in March. It got so bad, that I decided to chant. I didn't know what else to do. I then felt angry with myself that I chanted, and also communicated with SGI Members. I am trying to step away, but I know I have to be patient with myself.

Finding My Way Today, the things that you describe are pretty common in people who've left SGI. First, SGI does tell people that their lives are just going go to rack and ruin if they quit chanting and/or leave SGI. If you've heard that, it's hard not to feel anxious about leaving SGI -- but the fact is, it's not true. Problems, sickness, unemployment, depression, anxiety, accidents, and divorce all happen to SGI members. Many members who have left SGI say that their lives are better without all of SGI's pressures, lies and manipulations.

Second, being told things like "You're not standing up for your life" when you won't do what they want is typical SGI bullshit. A leader or fellow member makes unreasonable demands or says something insulting and then they twist everything so it is your fault for saying no! I'm so glad I don't have to listen to that kind of manipulation anymore!

Third, I hesitated to leave SGI myself because I felt that those people were my friends and my support group. The truth was, they weren't friends or supportive at all, they were just people I spent a lot of time with. Not spending time with them gives me more time to make real friends and spend time with the people who really do care about me.

Last, SGI does not own daimoku. If chanting does something for you, you can still chant without belonging to SGI. There are other Nichiren sects, Nichiren Shu, Nichiren Shoshu, and Kempon Hokke. Some ex-SGI members have found other ex-SGI members to chant and study with. You can also chant on your own, if you want to.

Does anyone feel like this? Sometimes I am so disgusted by my own behavior over the past 2o years that I want to take down my Gohonzon and get one not issued by the SGI.When I recall harassing uninterested members; trying so hard to hook the guests; building resentments toward guests I would bring who clearly didn't want to come back(Oh boy I did that--can anyone here relate?); trying to get my family, friends, and co-workers to join; putting time and effort into planning and executing meetings instead of actually making a difference in the world; indulging in magical thinking(Oh boy!); being perplexed when others outside SGI did not share my logic; turning a blind eye to how unimpressive MOST SGI members are; deluding myself that I could make SGI better in my small way; ignoring the fact that true "seeking spirit toward Buddhism is clearly not considered important; my own intolerance when guests or newer members would mention other Buddhist sects or other religious practices; my incessant arrogance, arrogance, arrogance expressed as condescending judgment of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Kabbalists, Tibetan Buddhists etc; fear of karmic retribution for leaving or criticizing members or SGI; mistakenly thinking that it was okay for me to hide books about self-help or other Buddhist teachers whenever members were coming over; and finally the big one--watching my mother, whom I introduced 20 yrs ago, get subjected to guilt for failing to introduce new members, spend money on May contribution, pester relatives to join, and worst of all, watching her becoming an Ikeda groupie. How do I deal with the guilt, betrayal, and manipulation? Looking back I can see that even the "good" leaders I met are part of the problem. Despite some good encouragement they gave me during guidance or at big meetings, they uncritically accept all the Ikeda worship. One told me I would never be happy unless I accepted Ikeda as my mentor. Another told a packed auditorium that she could never be anyone's mentor even if they wanted her to be. What was I thinking? I want my mother to leave too, but I don't want to try to control her that way. It's not healthy, I know. I feel like Winston Smith in 1984, except I don't want to "win the victory over myself" and "love Big Brother."

@Doubtful. I was so anxious when you posted this last post that I actually had to calm down. I can empathy for you right now. I don't feel resentful and guilty for any of those things that you just posted about because at the time I SINCERELY thought that I was doing the right thing. I am just thankful to those that I did bring to a meeting that they never got their Gohonzan's. My sponsor however, had the NERVE to tell me that after I wanted to leave the organization to stay anyway even though she knew in her heart that what was going on was wrong. She was very cold and heartless about it, despite the fact that she felt uncomfortable on so many levels. Looking back on it now, I should have known something was up when everytime I attended a meeting a member who had been practicing for a long time would give me a foreboding look and say, "Whatever happens never leave the organization, you'll find that some members are intense but they are only human and make mistakes". On at least two occasions I had members tell me this. At one point in time when I decided to leave the first time at the end of 2008, my sponsor had expressed how sad she might be but that if I decided to leave to keep on chanting, yet when I expressed that I wanted to go, she latched on like a pit bull with all the gloom and doom rhetoric that SGI says to their members if they chose to leave. You just posting this post in particular right here is commendable. I suppose the other reasons as to why I don't feel resentment towards myself or any guilt is also because-despite the fact that I thought that no other teachings of Buddhism or Christianity was superior to SGI, I did not know. I really thought that what I was saying at the time was the absolute truth. The only thing that I still feel from time to time is duped for falling for the SGI even though I know it is not my fault. That will take some time to get over. I also feel a lot of anger towards my shakabuku because she knew what was going on and had so many issues with so many members, yet she chose to introduce me to the practice. Also it really hurts me to this day because I thought she had my interest at heart and that she was a true friend, but when I found out from other members all of the hurtful and nasty things that she said behind my back it made me (and still to this day makes me) feel so vulnerable and naked.

I think its actually is quite plain and simple. I do not consider it a wrong to say that what one believes in is true. What I do consider a wrong is to make this the starting point to look down on, to attack, to vilify, to ridicule anyone who does not share my belief. Any faith which allows for that ,even fosters or creates such, low level sentiments is not healthy in order to contribute to a society based on respect.
So when any of you, us, have those setbacks please hold your head up high knowing that you closed the doors to a group which in is true core is NOT based on respectfulness and appreciation for the person next to you.
Most of all a sentiment is being created of 'them' against 'us', being part of the chosen ones. Guys whenever we come across that our alarm bells should ring.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2010 01:39AM by Rothaus.

lthomas, thank you for your empathy. You are right in pointing out that when I did what I did to guests, members, co-workers, and family members I thought I was sincere and right. It is true that hindsight is 20/20. Furthermore, I don't believe that most SGI leaders and members intend to harm. They simply do not think critically. Like other people, they have a need to believe in someone and something that will deliver meaning, success, and joy in their lives. What I find most disturbing about us is that we of SGI were actually quite selfish, materialistic, and lazy. Few of us ever cared enough about anything to try and change it. We foolishly believed that by chanting and doing activities that we were contributing to a better society while pursuing our dreams. Oh how I hate that about SGI--all its talk of dreams! How in the ___ did Buddhism get hijacked like this. That any of its members think they can impugn the validity of other Buddhist sects/practices--ha! I am on a rant because I have been in this so long that exiting is extremely hard. Tonight the scheduled study is being shortened to accomodate a teleconference with Linda Johnson(Ok they are pulling out the big guns). No doubt this is going to be more pressure to increase the May contribution and to secure participation in Rock the Era. Part of me wants to stay away, and part of me is strangely fascinated by the notion of watching the cult in action. I will probably meet with some leaders to tell them why I am leaving but I am afraid of this. Some of them have been there for me through some hard times so I feel obligated to at least explain myself. Perhaps I don't need to, but...