Dear Doubtful;

I haven't been to FNCC but I have been to two, three day SGI cult seminars at your center in Trets France. If you go like a good little Ikedabot fanatic with doubt free faith, everything is smooth and cordial. If you go with many questions or doubts, you will taken aside for intensive retraining. I would bet that every single group had a facilitator and the facilitators all towed the party line to a T.

Next time you go to FNCC, air your grievances and write out every question you have about the SGI faith and practice, the Lotus Sutra, and the writings of Nichiren Daishonin in a notebook. By the time you finish this exercise, you should have more than a thousand questions. Then, seek out those answers from your leaders as if your life depended on it [which it does in a sense]. See how many of those questions are answered, check them off. Write down the answers next to the questions. See how many answers are to the effect, "you lack faith", "doubt free faith", "Sharihotsu [Man of Learning nature]", "you should chant about it", "you can change faith to wisdom", "never doubt Sensei", "'Danny' had those very same questions and he resolved them with chanting and seeking Sensei's guidance.".

These men, your top leaders aren't stupid. They built FNCC, like Trets, in one of the most beautiful places they could find, serving the members the most delicious food. Your guard is let down and you become very suggestive, especially with all the chanting. Don't be fooled.

Nichijew

Hey Wakatta, given that I am on my way out of SGI I have no reason to misrepresent FNCC. Members are ecouraged to contribute when they leave, but no big deal is made about it. There are some envelopes on a table near an exit, but no one is there monitoring anything. I never gave and never saw anyone giving anything either. It is no different than what is found at other retreat centers.

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doubtful
Hey Blue Lady, I knew this would happen. I have had it with SGI's dishonest stats. As a district leader I have watched them inflate their numbers with infants, uninterested, and inactive members despite my repeated attempts to clean up the membership lists. They always tell me it's my lack of compassion for those inactive members driving my willingness to respect their wishes NOT to be counted. The theory goes that they might want to practice one day and they are likelier to resume if they still have their Gohonzon. Sure. SGI just does not want to get honest about its lack of members. When I heard about Rock the Era, I thought ok, that's the summer event this year. When I heard it was only for Youth Division I thought great, then I don't have to go. Then when I heard about the 8000 person venue I knew what I was in for. Now, I have learned that others are able to attend as well. They can forget it. I feel quite betrayed. I donated $1000 recently for May contribution. I also give monthly zaimu. I have been contributing for 20 years(not at the same level). They collect money with the idea that it is needed to run and build community centers--something I believed. Then they have the audacity to go and rent out a superexpensive venue--using our money--based I suppose on inflated membership lists. Then they think we have to run around and fill this venue, and for what? What kind of cult-like event is this going to be? Are the YD going to be encouraged to pledge their loyalty to Pres. Ikeda. If they want to make this event happen, they can do it. But I will never give them my money again and I will ask YD in our district to think critically before/during the event.

I keep hearing that a memo was put out that YWD can have children. What? What is the point then. If you were 16 and had a child you were in WD.. if you are 25 with teenagers you are in WD. Here they put in you in YWD.
I just can not find this infamous memo

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doubtful
Hey SGBye, I agree with everything you said here. I have been a member for over 20 years and hate the whole mentor-disciple fixation. How could any organization find it appropriate to mention the same person's name ad nauseum in EVERY article, on every page, and out of every leader's mouth. I recently told a co-leader that everytime I hear ment/disc I think CULT. He was quite upset that I indicated that the more Ikeda's accomplishments, including the meaningless honorary doctorates, are mentioned the less likely I am to see him as my mentor. This co-leader then told me I am not really a Nichiren Buddhist since I don't acknowledge my vow to be reborn now to spread the law alongside Ikeda. How dare he say that to me! He then proceeded to indicate that I have changed, that I am clearly not happy. What? I have a very full life, one in which I chant 45 minutes a day, host meetings, enjoy my job, exercise regularly, have interests outside SGI, stay close to family, have a great partner--have a great life. But if Ikeda is not my mentor, I am not happy. Oh okay.

your Co - Leader does not think for himself - just like the majority. He probably does not know why he belives what he belives except that SGI told him too.

Hey Nichijew, OMG I am starting to sound like an SGI apologist. I DEFINITELY am not. But FNCC is a good thing. In fact, I did take several hardhitting questions about the organization's materialism, mentor-discip obsession, lack of doctrinal resources etc to the last study conference. I wrote them all down and submitted them. All the the top study leaders were there and they took turns answering all of them, even when I could tell my questions were really making them work. They did not give me trite, ready-made responses, even when we met for personal guidance. I came away feeling better about SGI's attempts to reconcile Nichiren Buddhism with our contemporary world. I also came away feeling that the nitty gritty of Buddhist doctrine including Shakyamuni's ideas can be quite tedious. In some ways, SGI's Nichiren practice is the quick and dirty Reader's Digest or Cliff's Notes (okay I am dating myself) approach to Buddhist practice in the 21st century. That has some advantages and some disadvantages. In my other 3 conferences I asked my critical questions in face-to-face guidance sessions. Then too, I received some excellent feedback well into the night--and yes, sometimes I was ecouraged to overcome my problems with mentor-disc but in all fairness, I have nothing but good things to say about how everyone treated me--even when it became clear to them that I did not drink the kool aid. The leaders gave me license to talk about anything, which I did. I thought by asking these questions there and in district I could contribute to a better SGI. It's not happening. Rock the Era is an expression of the continuing Ikeda worship and as much as ever the pubs and the leaders feel the need to praise him constantly.

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wakatta1
@doubtful

"Believe it or not, FNCC is an excellent way for SGI members at any level of commitment to the organization to spend 3 days."

Hmm, hadn't heard of this. Seems to me to be too little too late. Such a thing has been needed for a long time. Not to sound too cynical, but do they also market SGI Florida timeshares in reclaimed swampland during the sessions? There has to be some sort of SGI income producing activity or they wouldn't be doing it based on what I've learned about the organization in the past. Were you approached for "big donations" while you were involved in the meetings? Perhaps sessions to help you "determine your life's goals and how you can overcome your karma through heartfelt determination and expanded zaimu contributions"? SGI rarely gives something for nothing.

Wakatta

I would also be curious about who does the work to keep the FNCC running...paid employees or SGI volunteers? Regarding the delicious food, I knew a couple in SGI, both chefs. They volunteered to cook at the FNCC during their vacations. They knew other chefs and caterers who volunteered. So who else volunteers? Do volunteers also answer the phones in the office, and clean the buildings and grounds? That's one way to keep costs down. Labor is expensive.

I agree with Wakatta -- a few days at FNCC may be delightful, but there's got to be some advantage to SGI. A way to launder money? Are there any buildings or areas at FNCC where ordinary members wouldn't be allowed to go -- areas that Ikeda can use for himself, his family, his friends, the VIP's that he wants to cultivate?

Whose money paid for FNCC? Who really owns it? What about the businesses that provide FNCC with food, bed linens, furniture, bottled water...all the things you'd need to keep a retreat center running. Do Ikeda and his cronies have any financial interest in those companies? Keep all that money in the family!

Everyone that I know who has ever been to the FNCC loved it...and seemed to see it as a great gift from Ikeda, which is interesting. They don't feel grateful to the other SGI members who donated the money...no, they're thankful to Ikeda.

Receiving a gift can make a person feel obligated to reciprocate...perhaps Ikeda reasons that members who've been to FNCC will feel grateful to him -- and thus more likely to remain loyal to SGI. It's not really necessary to ask for a donation right then and there...that would seem crass. Better to let members go home, tell everyone what a wonderful time they had at FNCC...and then when the next zaimu campaign comes along, why of course they'll donate.

Regarding Ikeda and gift-giving: page 88 of this thread has an article on Ikeda's efforts to cultivate Polly Toynbee, granddaughter of British intellectual Arnold Toynbee:

[forum.culteducation.com]

In the 1980's, after Ikeda's book on his so-called dialogue with Arnold Toynbee came out...Polly Toynbee, her husband and their daughter were invited to Japan as Ikeda's guests. They were given the best of the best -- staying in luxury hotels, given lavish gifts, feted at banquets, a staff ensuring that their every request was immediately fulfilled.

Polly Toynbee, no fool, wondered why. She eventually learned that Ikeda wanted her grandfather's papers so that he could publish a second book of dialogues. Ikeda assumed that, with everything he'd done for her, she'd hand over the papers. How could she say no, when he'd brought her and her family to Japan and treated them like royalty?

She did say no -- and later criticized Ikeda in the Manchester Guardian. For not letting herself be manipulated, the Soka Gakkai-sponsored www.gakkaionline wrote some insulting things about her.

Beware of Sensei's bearing gifts.

And again, as with FNCC -- whose money really paid for this vacation? Ikeda's -- or the money donated by hard-working SGI members? It's easy to be generous with other people's money!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2010 06:56AM by tsukimoto.

@Doubtful

Hey Wakatta, given that I am on my way out of SGI I have no reason to misrepresent FNCC. Members are ecouraged to contribute when they leave, but no big deal is made about it. There are some envelopes on a table near an exit, but no one is there monitoring anything. I never gave and never saw anyone giving anything either. It is no different than what is found at other retreat centers

Please don't misunderstand my questions (and attempt at humor) I don't believe in executing the messenger, nor do I impune your experience at FNCC. I merely raised the question as to where the SGI payoff is at since they NEVER do anything for "Free". I contributed my fair share of effort with the SGI movements and learned that SGI rarely gives anything. Bottled water during the movement? Nope, go buy your own or drink from the faucet. Provided meals? Nope, just some riceballs from the WD. Hotel room to house you while you chauffered the VP's around? Nope, eight guys to a room and you were expecting to be chanting all the time (until you keeled over from exhaustion). If it cost money SGI would always cry "Poor" and take advantage of the members generosity.

In my many years I didn't seen much more than the back of the hand from the "organization", which is why I was surprised that they would do something of this order without a big payoff hidden behind it. if the Toban at the community center needed coffee in the middle of the night, they bought it and donated it to the center. So if you believe FNCC is just a great and magnanimous gift from Sensei then you are entitled to your opinion. The Sensei I knew wasn't very concerned about US members except to make sure the money kept rolling in for WT, ST and Zaimu (and movement after movement).

Wakatta

Hey Wakatta, this forum has opened my eyes a lot. FNCC is probably another well-executed plan coming out of SGI. The payoff is that members typically enjoy it; they do see it largely as a gift from Ikeda, and they go back and tell people all about it which excites interest. Nevertheless, I have never heard of anyone being pressured to contribute financially to it. However, throughout the years there would be reminders to attend MD conferences. I still don't see that as a bad thing. I am glad you all have reminded me that Ikeda's money comes from the members and that there is a larger objective at work--not generosity. I agree. SGI is tight with its money which is why I am appalled with Rock the Era. We already have a beautiful community center here. Why go rent out a very expensive, huge venue using the members' money and then coerce everyone into trying to fill it. It won't happen. I decided against FNCC this year since a friend came back and told me how the ment-disc thing was in overdrive so much that he regretted much of the whole experience. When he described the 9 sessions on Sunday, each followed by discussion of the presentation he decided that his departure from the organization was imminent. Now that I know what is likely to happen there I won't go. Life is too short to spend on it meaningless, expensive, stressful bullshit that is not making the world a better place. Yet, I don't want to indulge in cynicism either. SGI did teach me the importance of the right attitude and ichinen. These I am using to hasten my departure.

Dear Doubtful:

If you want to talk Buddhism, SGI taught you wrong attitude and wrong ichinen. The SGI teaches the opposite of the Noble Eightfold Path. It teaches Wrong Wisdom [Wrong View, Wrong Intention], Wrong Conduct [Wrong Speech, Wrong Action, Wrong Livelihood], and Wrong Concentration [Wrong Effort, Wrong Mindfullness, and Wrong Concentration].

Wrong View is that you can not attain Buddhahood without the mentor or SGI.

Wrong intention is the intention to convert people to a pseudo-Buddhist [I'm being generous] sect that destroys the Great Pure Law and the practitioners Great Pure Mind.

Wrong Conduct [speech, action, livelihood] is the conduct of every last top salaried senior leader [there are more than 200 of them], earning mid six figure salaries to teach the Dharma to white robed laymen like Herbie Hancock and Orlando Bloom while the YMD clean Ikeda's toilets for free. From a Nichiren Lotus Sutra point of view, Right livelihood is a bodily reading of the Lotus Sutra. Who in the SGI has accomplished a bodily reading of the Lotus Sutra? On the contrary, they teach that the Lotus Sutra has lost its power in this age.

Wrong Concentration or Ichinen is concentrating one's body and mind on Ikeda and Nichikan rather than the Lotus Sutra.

From the perspective of the Lotus Sutra, the FNCC is the Phantom City [Chapter 7] of the Evil Organization that is SGI. It is not real, it is not thus [the reality of the SGI].

Nichijew



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2010 08:32PM by Nichijew.