The buddhajones.com website had an interesting quote from Twitter: [buddhajones.com]

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JessicaG90: Our teacher had us in class reciting Tina Turner Nichiren Buddhism chant "Nam Myoho Renge Kyo" [myloc.me]

1 day ago from UberTwitter
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"Tina Turner Nichiren Buddhism"???? Sorry, Daisaku! Despite all your degrees, and even having a gate in a San Francisco park named after you -- Tina Turner is still more famous and popular than you! Perhaps you should learn to sing and dance?

Anyone know anything else about this? I really wonder what the context was. Middle school, high school, college? Dance class? I could see it if this were a comparative religion class and the students were studying chants, hymns and prayers from many different religious traditions. Maybe even for a class in Japanese history and culture. A regular public-school class, though? Doesn't seem appropriate. Soka University? Surely not. If Jessica attended Soka, she would say "SGI Buddhism." Has Philip Scharper, the "hate chanting principal", gotten a new gig teaching at Jessica's school? I wish I knew.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 09:19AM by tsukimoto.

Hello all, it's been a long time since I've been on the thread. I have been following everyone's comments and as usual they are very helpful. As some of you may know; a while back I posted that I suffered from a deep depression. Well everyday is a struggle now, but with the help of family and friends in some ways I am better and other days it's really horrible. Despite all of this, in no way do I have the desire to go back to SGI because I know who I am as a person and I know what they stand for. A few members have tried to reach out by inviting me out to lunch or sending me a text with "words of encouragement", but now it's to the point as to where that does not even affect me because I know what their true motive is. There are times as a default in which I still want to chant, yet the minute I get the urge I think of all of the things I was subjected to in the organization and it becomes a turn off. It's a shame because in my heart I do believe that the chant is really beautiful yet to me it has been tainted. Maybe some day I will chant, then again maybe I won't. Anyways please continue to keep me in your best wishes or prayers.

Take Care,

The L

Hi, Ithomas. Personally I have continued to chant either by myself or with other ex-members. I don't know what I'll do in the future. I doubt that I will join another Nichiren sect, but you never know what the future holds. After my experience with SGI I know I'm not ready for any organized religion right now.

Howdy y'all,

Glad things are going well for everyone, especially for evergreen and lthomas.

I have a question here, I don't know if this is appropriate but I'll post anyway and would love to hear your opinions on this.

The one thing I never liked about SGI, even when I was a "happy member" is the whole persecution/us-vs.them complex. Of course, many of you know what I am talking about:

"Why did the Mainichi Shimbun [nationally syndicated newspaper of Japan] wrote a bad article about Ikeda/SGI?"

"Because we're doing good things and their fundamental darkness is trying to attack us!"

Of course, you can see that sentiment in the link tsukimoto posted.

So my question here is, is that type of mentality rooted in Nichiren Buddhism in general?

Nichiren did write a lot of offensive letters about people from other religions and other Buddhist sects. Obviously, we all know what happened to him afterward, SGI can't stop talking about it.

The way I see it, Nichiren more or less first discovered and declared the practice, wrote offensive letters, got himself almost executed then exiled, wrote about how that is proof of his bad karma being erased, then later retired to Mt. Minobu.

First of all, I am willing to entertain that there was no other way for him to do what he had to do.

Secondly, I haven't researched the gosho all that much nor really kept a careful chronology of them.

Thirdly, every Nichiren sect has their own views on which of the letters are authentic.

So, like I said, it may not be appropriate, but I would like to hear what you all think in any case.

well actually you observations are correct. you always have some nichiren-buddhists wandering of and sayin that they are the real mac coy

I remember one of my buddhist professors in college: when he introduced Nichiren he called him "a trouble making monk." He spoke of his letters as being incendiary. people have used his writings over time to suit their own need. Nichiren wanted to expose the corruption of his age - among priests, laity and political officials. I have always believed he wanted to emphasize equality as far as who had access to enlightenment. I'm sure he would be horrified at what the SGI has become.

Hi lthomas,

You seem to be very aware of the issues surrounding SGI and your own internal issues. I can't imagine what it would be like to seperate from SGI while being effected by the issues you mentioned in your previous posts. I think you are very brave, and doing very well!
I think its so tempting to 'switch off' to the truth of SGI when you miss the good things about it. So you are being very strong for not allowing the SGI members to get close to you. I don't mean that in a mean spirited way, just that you need time and space to detox from SGI, any close contact with members I would say is a bad thing right now.

As far as continueing to chant goes, I think its a very personal thing. If you dont feel 100% comfortable with it then I would say don't do it. Yes it is a beautiful and profound chant, but if you are still interested in buddhism at all then there are many different expressions of the dharma you could do instead. Since seperating from SGI I have practiced breathing meditation, loving kindness meditation and practiced actually reading the sutras (including the 'bad' ones according to SGI) and I've found them both deeply illuminating and comforting.
SGI doesn't control you mind, your spirit or your body anymore. I would say do a little bit of investigating and find what feels right to you.
Personally I've started practicing martial arts (at a very supportive and friendly dojo) but you might like to try tai chi, yoga or something along those lines. I've personally seen other people reap the benefits from such practices.
I think the trouble with SGI's method of chanting is that while the chant (if understood correctly) is profound and wonderful, the focus on chanting very quickly for long periods of time brings in an aspect of 'physical exertion' during your buddhist practice. So it is hard to go to a more placid type of practice (meditation, reading etc) without feeling that you are 'lacking' something.
For that reason I think its good to do some form of 'spiritual' physical activity in addition to practicing buddhism in whatever way you choose.

Key word there... "choose", not "be told what to do by a manipulative, sneaky, shadowy, subversive, secretive, authoritarian religious/social/political organisation."
I hope I don't need to say which particular one that is. I'm still working on the 'anger' stage of SGI detox. :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2010 02:42AM by DavidM.

It's interesting, there is also a discussion on this topic on the Buddha Jones site:

[buddhajones.com]

Quote
evergreen
I remember one of my buddhist professors in college: when he introduced Nichiren he called him "a trouble making monk." He spoke of his letters as being incendiary. people have used his writings over time to suit their own need. Nichiren wanted to expose the corruption of his age - among priests, laity and political officials. I have always believed he wanted to emphasize equality as far as who had access to enlightenment. I'm sure he would be horrified at what the SGI has become.

Very true! I can only imagine what Nichiren would say! "Mentor/Disciple!? When did I ever say anything about that? I always said, "Do not seek this Gohonzon outside of yourself," and here they are seeking it in their so-called "mentor." "Follow the law and not persons," I said. Wasn't anyone listening!? "


" I deliberately avoided worldy power and wealth because pursuing them would have meant compromising my teachings. I never had kotekitai, or young men doing pyramids on roller-skates at big shows! My hut on Sado didn't even have running water --except where the roof leaked -- much less gold-plated faucets! And they're chanting for stuff? Wasn't I 'the richest man in Japan' -- without all that stuff?"

On the other hand -- Nichiren did believe that earthquakes and epidemics could be caused by rulers and citizens having "wrong" religious beliefs. In the thirteenth century, nobody knew about plate techtonics, or that there were such things as bacteria and viruses. There were no vaccines, antibiotics or even hand sanitizers. Certainly, he was a wise and courageous man, but he was also influenced by the time in which he lived.

So how does a person decide what religious teachings to accept or reject?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2010 09:39AM by tsukimoto.

Quote
evergreen

On the other hand -- Nichiren did believe that earthquakes and epidemics could be caused by rulers and citizens having "wrong" religious beliefs. In the thirteenth century, nobody knew about plate techtonics, or that there were such things as bacteria and viruses. There were no vaccines, antibiotics or even hand sanitizers. Certainly, he was a wise and courageous man, but he was also influenced by the time in which he lived.

good point, as this is something that i never believed in, the Earth is it's own living entity and blows or moves at its own pace. We humans have no control at all over whether Earthquakes, volcanos, typhoons happen. So you are right some of Nichirens thought process is outdated and proved to be wrong! but it doesn't mean it's all wrong.
Law not the person! so simple yet people are blind to it!

Take it easy y'all!

There's another saying, "If you meet the Bhudda on the road, kill him."
Obviously an exaggeration, but again, the Law, not the person.