Quote
tsukimoto
Yes! The World Tribune and Living Buddhism are like a closed loop, repeating themselves endlessly.

So true! When I was an SGI member, I would read Ikeda's stuff and go, "Didn't he say this in the last issue?" To see if I was right, I started highlighting quotes. I can confidently say that they have the brainwashing thing down pat. Any practicing SGI member would be able to tell you how many countries and territories SGI is in. That's because it's just another number that the SGI likes to constantly remind its members of. Once again, a batch of Ikeda quotes (and try to keep your food down while reading the last one):


Our great alliance for peace based on the Mystic Law has today spread to 192 countries and territories. Making Mr. Toda's spirit my own, I opened a path to the world. (Nov.-Dec. 2008, Living Buddhism)

Today, countless members around the globe, in 192 countries and territories, have shown victorious actual proof. (March-April 2009, Living Buddhism)

We of the SGI today have spread the Mystic Law to 192 countries and territories around the globe. (May-June 2009, Living Buddhism)

Our kosen-rufu movement today reaches 192 countries and territories. (July-Aug. 2009, Living Buddhism)

Today, the Mystic Law has spread to 192 countries and territories. We have brought my mentor's cherished dream to fruition. (12/4/09, World Tribune)

Faithfully carrying out the wishes of Mr. Makiguchi and Mr. Toda, we have now spread the Mystic Law to 192 countries and territories. (12/18/09, World Tribune)

Just as Mr. Toda envisioned, the Soka Gakkai's movement for peace, education and culture has now spread to 192 countries and territories. (12/25/09, World Tribune)

The mentors and disciples of Soka have borne the brunt of every imaginable slander and attack, battling devilish functions inside and outside of the organization, while working to extend our great citadel of good fortune, friendship and peace to 192 countries and territories around the world. (2/26/10, World Tribune)


OK, pop quiz: How many countries and territories has the SGI spread to?
And I wonder about that number. If one single SGI member moved to a country where there are no other members, the SGI could technically say that the SGI has spread there.

Hey, that's why when I read Mao's Red Book, the writing and the style of the quotes seemed too damn familiar.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, may I present to you exhibit A: Quotations from Mao Zedong.

So, if I were an SGI member and moved to Saudi Arabia, is that country #193? The country where Buddhism and all other religions besides Islam is illegal?


Fascinating.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2010 02:56AM by DrJesusEsq.

Quote
DavidM
As far as taking down your gohonzon and butsudan, I would forget about any 'superstitious ideas'. In my experience SGI leaders always said 'if you're taking your gohonzon down to move house, move it to another room etc then you must have a group of leaders come to your house so that it will be respectful'. I never believed any of that, I moved house about 2 years ago when I was on an extended break from attending meetings, I respectfully took down my gohozon and butsudan then set them back up in my new flat. I wasn't struck by lightening at any point. Recently when I decided to fully leave SGI I simply respectfully took down and boxed up my gohonzon and did the same with my butsudan. They are now sitting in my cupboard until I decide what to do with them permanently. I am still chanting and practicing buddhism, and even though I don't believe there is anything 'wrong' with the SGI gohonzon but it just brought up too many memories for me. You can download high quality printable files of 'prayer gohonzon's' from a number of websites, these are just scans of gohonzons done by people who dont believe in the 'superstitious' things the SGI does.

I gave back the butsudan and the gohonzon on Monday, but everything in a shopping bag and brought it back to my sponsor. When I had that chance meeting with her and I told her I wasn't chanting anymore and that I wanted to bring back the butusudan, which she had gifted to me, she started with the above of having a whole group come to my house. I told her no, I didn't want anyone in my home again, and I had already taken down the gohonzon, rolled it up and put it in the original package. I guess she was momentarily surprised, but there was no outrage -- I mean, what could she do? She obviously told the chapter leader that I was leaving after this because I received this phone call a couple of nights before I returned to gohonzon, and said, you know, you can keep the gohonzon. I said no, I needed to make this a clean break. Again, no shock, no outrage. I'm beginning to think that in my area they must be getting used to this -- they rope in someone at a time of upheaval or desperation in their lives, that person becomes convinced in joining SGI and getting their gohonzon, and then that's when the meetings and everything else becomes intense, they get the World Tribune, etc., and start reading. Some of us get hooked, but some of us start to feel comfortable and wonder what the heck is this organization really about, the world cult comes into mind and we start doing research. And that's the end of that -- we leave. I also wasn't young and impressionable either, anymore -- I was 52 and I had a faith that I already done a struggle with and ultimately found peace with. I was also told that SGI was not a religion and would not conflict or prevent me from being a Catholic -- which I discovered after receiving my gohonzon was an outright lie. I had the opportunity to see new people coming to the meetings all the time -- not many of them were that young, except the ones they were roping in at Stony Brook.

But here's the rub. During that year SGI received from me -- a $25 contribution, $30 for the gohonzon, and whatever I paid for a couple of other books, beads and a a bell set -- all of which I gave to my sponsor. Did I get my money back? Of course not, it went into the coffers of Ikeda's SGI. Is my name being officially taken off the rolls of SGI membership? I doubt it.

But before I took all these actions I had been to this website and I had visited other websites where people were chanting on their own with had gohonzons that, yes, were printed off the web. They were living and breathing and seemed to be doing just fine and content with their practice. Lightening did not come down and strike them. But I understand that kind of brainwashing. Catholicism used to be rife with that sort of thing, and there are obviously cults outside the mainstream that still espouse these kinds of teaching -- like SGI they are represented on this site. It's about control and dominion. The problem is that I've always had a streak of rebellion when it comes to that sort of thing.

Boy did I make typos in this last post. I meant to say "uncomfortable" not comfortable and "word" not world. Geez. I had been typing all day and must have been at a point of needing to take a break:)

Quote
KittyLuv

Quote
DavidM
As far as taking down your gohonzon and butsudan, I would forget about any 'superstitious ideas'. In my experience SGI leaders always said 'if you're taking your gohonzon down to move house, move it to another room etc then you must have a group of leaders come to your house so that it will be respectful'. I never believed any of that, I moved house about 2 years ago when I was on an extended break from attending meetings, I respectfully took down my gohozon and butsudan then set them back up in my new flat. I wasn't struck by lightening at any point. Recently when I decided to fully leave SGI I simply respectfully took down and boxed up my gohonzon and did the same with my butsudan. They are now sitting in my cupboard until I decide what to do with them permanently. I am still chanting and practicing buddhism, and even though I don't believe there is anything 'wrong' with the SGI gohonzon but it just brought up too many memories for me. You can download high quality printable files of 'prayer gohonzon's' from a number of websites, these are just scans of gohonzons done by people who dont believe in the 'superstitious' things the SGI does.

I gave back the butsudan and the gohonzon on Monday, but everything in a shopping bag and brought it back to my sponsor. When I had that chance meeting with her and I told her I wasn't chanting anymore and that I wanted to bring back the butusudan, which she had gifted to me, she started with the above of having a whole group come to my house. I told her no, I didn't want anyone in my home again, and I had already taken down the gohonzon, rolled it up and put it in the original package..

@KittyLuv

In the context of the many years that I practiced, here are my recollections: the original Gohonzon's (the legitimate ones) had a temple ceremony performed on them I believe called the "kaimoku" which meant "opening of the eyes" in which the lifeblood was supposedly received from the high priest and as a result they became valid objects of worship, which meant they were to be treated with respect because they represented Nicihren.

After SGI/NSA split with the temple they started manufacturing their own Gohonzons and apparently they had hired their own priest to perform the ceremony. The problem was that the priest they hired wasn't the high priest and if you went strictly by the rules of the temple, the gohonzon's they were distributing were heretical, and in fact they weren't valid gohonzons. Just replicas of the gohonzon.

Therefore, following the traditional rules it would appear that you afforded that gohonzon perhaps more respect than it had coming.

Of course, this is insight from a Taitan member so take it for what it is worth.

As a Chapter Chief I enshrined and unenshrined Gohonzons, and the rules were to keep it upright when you rolled it up, don't breathe on it when you do, and place it in it's envelope and perhaps even wrap the package in a scarf against the possibility of it being handled by soiled hands. That is what I did with my big Gohonzon when I returned it to the temple near Chicago. That was that.

Wakatta1

Dear Wakatta:

The ceremony to open the eyes of Gohonzon is Kaigen not Kaimoku. Otherwise excellent posts. TY

Mark

Quote
Nichijew
Dear Wakatta:

The ceremony to open the eyes of Gohonzon is Kaigen not Kaimoku. Otherwise excellent posts. TY

Mark

Thanks Mark, the memory grows fuzzier with age.

Just to reiterate the point I was making for Kittyluv (I'm sure some folks are scratching their heads on this) If you use the principles that SGI was supposedly based upon (and from which it's "legitimacy" was supposed to be derived from) the faux Gohonzons after the split with the temple were nothing more than reproductions of the physical manifestation of some other actual Gohonzon and that the actual component of that Gohonzon was never transferred (i.e. the lifeblood of Nichiren's teaching which linked him up to all buddha's). It is sort of like the 3 dollar bills that circulated with Bill Clinton's picture on them. They sort of look authentic, but you couldn't buy a cup of coffee with them.

All kidding aside, to be a functioning Gohonzon, at least one that can actually change anyone's Karma via Nichiren's teaching, it needs certain bonafides to have that "mystic power". SGI/NSA knew that by breaking with the temple that they were cutting themselves off from that lifeblood. I wonder how that is ultimately working out for them eh? I put that one at Ikeda's feet and no matter how much hyperbole he invokes, the organization is hollow now. I think the core started to rot out a long time before the split occurred and that is probably why the organization is regarded as a cult.

Wakatta1

Dear Wakatta:

From the perspective of the Nichiren Shoshu [Taisakai] you are absolutely correct. From the perspective of the Kempon Hokke, their Gohonzons are invalid because all Nichiren Shoshu Gohonzons are invalid. From our perspective, the SGI is the crooked shadow of the crooked tree. Choosing a Nichikan Gohonzon was their biggest mistake, we believe, because Nichikan's faith deviated so fundamentally from Nichiren's. The Nichiren Shoshu and the SGI both call Nichikan "The Great Restorer of the Fuji sect". We call Nichikan the Great Destroyer of Buddhism [for taking Shakyamuni Buddha out of the religion and for denigrating the Lotus Sutra as no longer valid]. Nichikan called Shakyamuni Buddha a "husk Buddha" and he taught that, "We chant the Juryo-hon to smash the Hoben-pon and we chant the Daimoku to smash the Juryo-hon." Proof of the Soka Gakkai's [Ikeda's] delusion [lack of Enlightenment] is that they chose the Nichikan Gohonzon rather than a Nichiren Gohonzon for their banner of propagation [not to mention all those other things discussed here]. Here are some further thoughts from the perspective of the Kempon Hokke:

We look upon Daisaku Ikeda as the Devedatta of the modern age and the third of the Three Powerful Enemies described in the Exhortation to Hold Firm Chapter [13] of the Lotus Sutra. Nichiren Daishonin teaches in the Opening of the Eyes, one of his two most important writings:

“However, they do not look like those referred to in the sutra: ‘monks who wear robes and stay in tranquility.’ People do not suppose that they are ‘revered by the people as though they were arhats with Six Superhuman Powers.’ Or, should I say that they are those who are “more cunning and less likely to reveal their faults?” — Opening of the Eyes

Who could be more cunning than a monk who states, “I am not a monk, I am a layman.”? At this time, it is the business suited president of the SGI, who is looked upon by his disciples and the ignorant non-Buddhists with whom he holds dialogues as a living Buddha or one having superhuman powers ["He could read my thoughts"; "Rainbows follow him wherever he goes"; "How could anyone but a living Buddha collect so many awards and honors?"; Who but a Buddha could write so many hundreds of books?"]. He is the third of the Three Powerful enemies.

Regarding the Soka Gakkai:

“…Then, as laymen, they work to destroy the teachings of Buddhism. Men of this kind steal and usurp the correct teachings of Buddhism and use them to supplement and bolster the erroneous writings…” — Opening of the Eyes

The Soka Gakkai steals and usurps the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra to supplement and bolster the non-Buddhist SGI teachings of Human Revolution and Oneness of Mentor and Disciple. They [Daisaku Ikeda and his high paid lieutenants] steal and usurp Namu Myoho renge kyo to enrich themselves.

Nichijew

Quote
Nichijew
Dear Wakatta:

From the perspective of the Nichiren Shoshu [Taisakai] you are absolutely correct. From the perspective of the Kempon Hokke, their Gohonzons are invalid because all Nichiren Shoshu Gohonzons are invalid.

snip(...)

Nichijew

Mark,

After many years of dealing with one form or another of the NSA/SGI drama, as well as copung with their many internal and external detractors (and yes, defending the organization then too...) that went along with that equation, I think I can safely say that (for my part at least) I have become agnostic towards any and all the other forms of this brand of (Japanese tantric) buddhism. It has frankly created a callouse on that portion of my psyche and I'm afraid I cannot muster very much in the way of passion for its sake. Having said that, I really cannot comment one way or the other on your citations. I have heard of Hokke Kempon but beyond a very superficial bit of knowledge I'm afraid I cannot add or subtract anything.

I do know that SGI/NSA has definitely created a great deal of emnity towards itself, both in the modern times as well as historically, beginning with the first disciples. I have no doubts that one could drill way, way down into the fissures that separate the (many) similar groups, but when I turned in my Gohonzon, I also relinquished anything but academic interest in any of this, and since have proceeded down a much more productive path defined by Christian teachings.

I do however empathize with those seeking to reassert control over their lives after being subject to SGI/NSA and my comments were directed towards that end by occasionally injecting a bit of perspective.

Wakatta1

Regarding the Nikken Gohonzon vs. the Nichikan Gohonzon -- wasn't SGI's argument that Nikken was not a legitimate high priest -- so how could his Gohonzons be legitimate? There was that whole flap, years after the fact, about whether Nittatsu, the previous high priest had actually chosen Nikken to be his successor. Nikken claims that he did, but conveniently, Nikken had nothing in writing, and there were no witnesses.

Still, one wonders why, if SGI was going to make a big fuss about this, they didn't do it immediately after Nittatsu's death, rather than waiting so many years.

Regarding legitimate Gohonzons, high priests, and SGI's flip-flopping on doctrine:

This is from page 130 of this thread: [forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
tsukimoto

[groups.yahoo.com]

-----------------------------Beginning of Quote-------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: SGI Won't Tell Me What's on the Daigohonzon

You are 95% correct.
Both Mr. Makiguchi and Mr. Toda, and even Mr. Ikeda did not know that DG is
whether a fake or a real one when they became the members of NS.
And if NS opens DG in Public since it belongs to us since it is said as for the
world, we will see whether it is real one or not.


--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "queequeg1812" <lateshuvit@...>
wrote:
>

> To the point of the Daigohonzon.
>
> I am convinced that SG knows and has known for a long time that the DG is a
fake (I am 90% sure the leadership of Nichiren Shoshu knows the DG is a fake).
I have heard rumors that SG considered approaching Nichiren Shu for Gohonzons
after the schism (BIG problem in the Nichiren teachings, the way they've taken
form in SG is you need a legit source for these scrolls. So much authority is
vested in being able to source these talismans. Think about it.)
>
> So much of SG was built on this vision of shakabukuing the entire nation of
Japan and establishing the National Ordination Platform where the DG is to be
enshrined, this special Mandala handed down through the Shoshu lineage, that if
they were to all of a sudden say, "its a fake" and make a clean break with
Shoshu, you would have a lot of very sincerely devoted members in Japan freak
the heck out and you would have a LOT of political upheaval, not to mention the
organization risking loss of power completely.
>
> Back when I was a member, I had a meeting with some high leaders in Japan, one
of the VPs and an up and comer in the Legal division, and asked them point blank
about the DG, what we were going to do about it. This was probably around 1999.
They said, we are just going to go on and forget about it. This was said in a
very serious and hushed tone. The younger guy was a very active leader in
Komeito, too, by the way. There is no intention of returning to the fold with
NS. None. But coming out with that might cause a lot of trouble.
>
> So, I don't know how much this study department cat knows, really knows, how
much he is aware that the DG is a fake. I don't know how good a grasp he has on
SG's big picture status. In any event, its a messy subject that SG can only
lose by delving into. So you got the run around.
>
>----------------------------------------End of Quote---------------------------------------------------------

SGI simply changes doctrine whenever it is convenient. Prior to the split, SGI was saying that the DaiGohonzon was inscribed by Nichiren for all humanity, yadda yadda and everyone should make a pilgrimage to go see it. After the split -- if you went to see the DaiGohonzon, you were making a bad cause because Taiseki-ji was under the control of the evil Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.

Members' personal Gohonzons had to be inscribed and "opened" by the High Priest --- oh, wait a minute, they really don't have to be. In fact, SGI members of the 1990's were told that they should exchange their Nikken Gohonzons...because they'd been inscribed by the evil Nikken. Members were told that they could not expect to gain benefit from chanting to the evil Nikken's Gohonzon...though before the 1990's, members gave experiences about all the great benefits they'd gotten from chanting to Nikken Gohonzons!

If that weren't enough, a Nichiren Shoshu priest later claimed that when SGI began expanding in the postwar years, the Head Temple couldn't create Gohonzons quickly enough -- so the High Priest's assistant would just get copies of Gohonzons inscribed by other high priests so that SGI would have enough Gohonzons to hand out!

I thought that my first Gohonzon was a Nikken Gohonzon, but who knows, anyone could have inscribed it, including the assistant.

It all just sounds to me like the right magic person has to say the right magic words so that the scroll can become magical too!

I'm surprised that SGI has not come out with an Ikeda-inscribed and blessed Gohonzon.