From page 52 of this thread, October 4, 2009

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commongirl
I don't usually respond to these threads, but the idea that Mr. Williams is a poor, defenseless man is so wildly off-base, I had to say something.

Wherever Mr. Williams traveled, he had the women's division members wait on him hand and foot. They were required to be on standby to make Japanese food for him at a moment's notice, served on their own china. I know this, because my mother was one of them.

He favored Japanese leaders and looked down on Americans as incapable of effectively communicating Buddhism. I know this, because my father was one of them.

No one would ever stand for that sort of arrogant behavior today. Why? Because since Mr. Williams stepped down in 1990, members were encouraged to deeply study Buddhism for the first time and develop a self-motivated practice.

Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and maybe things are different where she practices...but I have to say that this last paragraph is the opposite of what I've seen. In my area back in the 80's, we studied the Lotus Sutra and Gosho in more depth -- and by the 90's and early 2000's, it was all "The New Human Revolution" and Mentor/Disciple.

Is there more equality in SGI-USA these days? Again, it seems to me like Japanese men are still in charge, with a few token round-eyes and women in visible positions.

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DavidM
However I've been trying to understand why SGI hasn't changed its 'tact' in the US and Europe. As far as I'm aware (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) membership in the US and Europe has been pretty much staying static. Now either SGI has realised it will never be able to grow any larger in these areas or is puposefully remaining at such a level.
This could be for a number of reasons, all of which would be made easier by having a relatively small membership because, a) they will be easier to contol and manage, b) less likely to appear on the 'national radar', keeping SGI nice and quiet. These reasons could be, 1) keep just enough members to have official charity tax exempt status, 2) keep a presence in these countries to allow back-door influence of Government officials, 3) have a watchful eye on academics and media organisations which might be critical of SGI, giving them the 'heads up' and time to prepare a counter in advance.
.

--------------Quote, page 130 of this thread, January 21, 2010-----------------------------------------------------------

Re Shakubuku and election campaign for Komei :
It is absolutely true that the election campain activities is stronger than
Shakubuku in daily Gakkai activities in Japan a lot more than 20-30 years ago.
Even after Gakkai declares that ‚"hey separate religion from politics, all
people know but never mention that they do activities in Zadan kai or in Culture
Centers in Japan. Even candidates come in and ask for their vote both in those
places. It is true, but no one has no spirit to say that in public.

--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "queequeg1812" <lateshuvit@...>
wrote:
>
> I'll just put some facts out there to frame what I am about to say.
>
> SGI-USA is a membership of what, 30,000? 150,000 by some very suspect claims.
OK, let's say its 150,000. Heck, 200,000. Makes no difference where this is
going.
>
> SG in Japan is what, at least 7,000,000 HOUSEHOLDS, not individuals, if the
claims are accurate, maybe 10,000,000 households. Whatever. Go to any decent
sized Japanese city and you will find at least one kaikan that is bigger than
the biggest kaikan in the United States, if not several kaikans and a
Makitodakeda Hall or two.
>
> DO NOT DISREGARD THIS: That SG membership is an energetic and motivated bunch.
Tell them to vote and they will vote. In DROVES. SG has so much wealth and
influence that they were part of the ruling coalition of the Japanese government
for 10 years before the LDP coalition was knocked out by the Democratic Party
this past year for chronic mismanagement. And I will bet everything I have, the
DPJ is making overtures to SG right now to try and lure them into the fold of
the present coalition to make up for the threat by the hard left parties to
withdraw from the DPJ coalition. Yes, I know Komeito is independent of SG.
That's on paper. Go live in Japan, practice in Japan with SG for a few years,
at least an election cycle or two, and tell me that is true with a straight
face.
>
> In the SGI-USA, there is a very different image of what the SG parent
organization is. We don't see that they are like the Mormons in Utah, with TV
commercials and the whole bit. We don't hear about how SG is a regular topic of
discussion on the news programs the way say, the Moral Majority was a few years
ago
>
> We are talking about serious political, economic and social power in Japan.
The needs and concerns of 200,000 sincere Americans really does not rank that
high on their list of concerns. They know we have no dog in the political fray
in Japan, that we just want to learn about this Buddhism, but to be open with us
means they have to be open at home and they CANT DO THAT[.

> I'm not trying to say that all the ideals of SG are false. What I'm saying is
that behind that idealism is a lot of realpolitik, and its no joke. Its not an
arena for innocent idealists to get caught up in.
>
My suggestion is this, stop turning your brain inside out to make the SG
recommended practice make sense to you. You can stay in SG and just cut out the
parts of the practice that don't make sense to you.
-------------------------End of Quote-----------------------------------------------------------------------

David, I used to wonder why SGI kept doing things that alienated their American membership too. After having read quite a bit on the subject, my conclusion is -- the American (Canadian, European, Ghanian, etc.) members do not really matter to the senior leadership of the Soka Gakkai International. Ikeda's real interest is 1) his wealth, and 2) his power in Japanese society, via the Komeito Party. Sure, I think he would love to rule the world -- but Japan will always come first to him. Other countries are useful for what they can contribute to Japan.

The American, British, Dutch, Argentinian etc. members are useful to SGI for contributing money and work. Also, it's a foothold. Having a presence in those countries gives SGI the opening to add foreign real estate and other investments to its portfolio. There are probably lots of creative, (and mostly legal) things you can do with tax exemptions and investing if you are a multinational corporation. Soka University in California appears to be an excellent vehicle for money laundering and shifting various funds around. Otherwise, what's the sense of so much money for so few students?

I think Queequeg1812 offered excellent advice: do what works for you, and don't worry about what SGI wants...SGI certainly doesn't care what you want.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2010 10:55PM by tsukimoto.

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Findingmywaytoday
You have all been so helpful. I have been reading previous posts from the previous years of this thread. I enjoy learning about all of your experiences, and can certainly relate. I have to tell you that I am in the shock phase. I wanted to believe so much that this group is/was for World Peace. I started to put things together, and in the last two months...I am seeing things with clearer eyes. I also understand that there is something in me that made me want to be apart of a group like the SGI. I want to work on this so I don't feel the need to all at once join some other group on the rebound. I feel like someone who was in a relationship with someone, broke up, and feels some betrayal.

For now, I am keeping my distance from members. I am not accepting calls, and not responding to e-mails. I don't know if this behavior is best, or if I should be nice and answer e-mails, but like someone else mentioned on the boards, I do not want to engage in a dialogue. Does anyone think I owe any of these members anything (like my kindness)? I don't want to be rude, but I am also afraid that if I am kind, I will get guilted into coming to a meeting. I also need to mention that I still am a YWD district leader.

I also want to take down my Gohonzon/Butsudan. Has anyone taken their Gohonzon down by themselves? I like my Gohonzon, but don't like the whole mentor/disciple stuff and the idolization of Ikeda, and the pushiness to get new members.

I remember when I hadn't been to a meeting for 6 months. Some of the other members were shocked that I looked as good as I did especially since I hadn't participated in so long.

Hi, you seem to have had quite a similar expereince to myself, but I'm sure other pople on this forum can help more.

I'd just like to say, you said you are in the 'shock phase', there is a term in psychology which you may identify with, 'cognitive dissonance' (the wiki page is very good [en.wikipedia.org] ). When I came to SGI I was (and thankfully still am) idealistic, liberal, positive and open minded. The SGI seemed to be /exactly/ what I was looking for too.
I also felt the need to belong to some form of 'group', I think its a natural human behaviour. Everything seemed so perfect, looking back now it was too perfect. When you first start going to meetings everyone else there consciously or subconsciously 'minds themselves' to not come accross too preachy, to not mention anything negative, to tell you what a wonderful thing it is you're doing. So going from such an amazingly positive feeling to finding out the truth is a huge strain on your emotions, I think its important to recognise that. Its not a bad thing, just something you have to go through, give yourself plenty of time and space.

I think your analogy of comparing it to a relationship break up is exactly right. There's a lot of emotional baggage, hurt and upset, but also something in the back of your mind remember the good times and wondering 'what if...'. But you have to not listen to that voice! Personally (and everyone will not agree with this but I think its important to say) there was something good about your time in SGI, if you were genuinely and sincerely practicing the 'buddhist' side of it then no doubt that has done you good and has helped you. I think the important thing to remember is that SGI does not own your buddhist practice. SGI loves to say 'we practice the true buddhism', regardless of wether you think Nichiren buddhism is 'the true' buddhism, SGI doesn't practice it anything like it should be practiced so they are lying.

You will probably know some people in SGI who you like, who you think and kind and genuine. They probably are, imagine them as being the way you were a few months ago. You have 'made the jump' of stepping outside your comfort zone and looking honestly and objectively at SGI. The other nice and sincere people you know have not yet been able to do that. Its a difficult situation. You can't let yourself feel 'responsible' for showing them the truth, nor can you be too nice and risk letting them manipulate you into coming back. Treat them the same way you would treat a drunk driver, respect them as a fellow human being but don't go along with their crazy and dangerous ideas. They might abuse you now but you never know they may start looking at SGI in an objective and critical way too at some point.

As far as taking down your gohonzon and butsudan, I would forget about any 'superstitious ideas'. In my experience SGI leaders always said 'if you're taking your gohonzon down to move house, move it to another room etc then you must have a group of leaders come to your house so that it will be respectful'. I never believed any of that, I moved house about 2 years ago when I was on an extended break from attending meetings, I respectfully took down my gohozon and butsudan then set them back up in my new flat. I wasn't struck by lightening at any point. Recently when I decided to fully leave SGI I simply respectfully took down and boxed up my gohonzon and did the same with my butsudan. They are now sitting in my cupboard until I decide what to do with them permanently. I am still chanting and practicing buddhism, and even though I don't believe there is anything 'wrong' with the SGI gohonzon but it just brought up too many memories for me. You can download high quality printable files of 'prayer gohonzon's' from a number of websites, these are just scans of gohonzons done by people who dont believe in the 'superstitious' things the SGI does.

In terms of 'not feeling the need to join another group', it might be helpful to read about a well known renegade who refused to accept the religious groups of his time, suffered abuse for thinking for himself and decided to find his way on his own... Shakyamuni Buddha. :)

DavidM says :In terms of 'not feeling the need to join another group', it might be helpful to read about a well known renegade who refused to accept the religious groups of his time, suffered abuse for thinking for himself and decided to find his way on his own... Shakyamuni Buddha. :)

Daisuky "Forever Hentai" Ikea says: Ohhhh snap!

didn't that poster (commongirl) state something like she didn't have time for this forum cause she "had a life unlike us?"

I have to say that I married an Amerasian or Asian-American. One other distinction the Japanese make is against the Okinawan people. I have even had Japanese members, who are supposedly more enlightened than others in Japan by virtue of Ikeda's worldliness and dialogue, tell me that my husband's mother isn't really Japanese.

It makes me laugh. Did Nichiren retire to Mount Minobu and map out who in his land was really Japanese?

I am curious about this issue for a number of reasons. Ikeda has dialogue with almost every conceivable minority. His followers read all of his stuff. Do they incorporate an understanding of oppressed people into their hearts?

Maybe some members are just open to these minority groups because thats just their personality. I don't think even Ikeda can change the hearts of his members.

Thank you so much for replying DavidM. I was at a big meeting a few months ago where a leader whom I respected and liked said something to the effect that she looks at every person she meets on the street as a potential SGI member, but she hasn't figured out how to shakabuku them. I felt a strange sensation overcome me when she said this. I also get weirded out by the photos of President Ikeda and company on people's altars. I never understood it. Instead of trying to understand those things, Tonight I now feel like I am taking back some of my personal power. I now feel like I am coming out of a fog. I felt like some of my personal power and my voice disinigrated as a member of the SGI. I feel lighter. I don't know if this feeling will last.

I have had a few members call me. I am not necessarily calling them back, unless it is necessary (for example to avoid them coming to my house to see if I am still alive or for them to see if my Gohonzon is safe). I can just picture that there might be this big daimoku campaign to get me back to meetings. I really don't want that. I remember when a girl disappeared, and my coleader felt so sure she would reappear if we just chanted hard enough.

I have also seen where there was a natural disaster, and where members are primarily concerned about members. There was an opportunity(outside of the SGI) to bring some food items to help all people in the area that was hit by this disaster. I told another member about this, and she shrugged her shoulders. She said she was unable to help this because she had to focus on having enough money to buy some food for an SGI Festival. If they are so for World Peace, then what about helping the average joe who isn't a member?

Another thing that has bothered me is that whenever I have had a disagreement with a member and I would ask another member for advice...it was my choice not to use names. I felt like it was more important to discuss the issue. Members always asked me who it was, and they would tell me it was okay to discuss these people. Maybe it is me, but I just didn't like bringing up the name. To me, it starts to border on gossip. For example, in a guidance session, I did mention a name of a leader who had said something that bothered me. The person giving the guidance started to go off on that leader as well saying that they also had problems with that person.

Anyhow, that is all for tonight. I like the idea of respectfully taking down my Gohonzon and Butsudan, putting them in a safe area until I decide what to do. I don't mind these items in my house, but it is the organization that comes along with it that really troubles me.

@evergreen:

The Japanese world-view casts a long shadow over NSA/SGI. Talk to anyone in the far east about who is the most Xenophobic of all the people there and you will usually hear that it is the Japanese. To a Japanese, cultural diversity is something they are resigned to but not something they have to like. Their DNA which tells them to work out ways to "get along" permits them to have all sort of cultural exchanges and interchanges, but I'm afraid it will be a cold day in Jigoku (hell) before they will willingly submit to being "ordered around" by some Gaikokujin (foreigner). I use the japanese word here because culturally, there is a negative connotation to "not being Japanese" which is the starting point for every relationship in dealing with them.

Under the microscope, the Japanese have a very low regard for Okinawans because they were historically a group that they were a target for conquest, much the same as the Koreans. The "feudal government" which existed up to the Meiji era would periodically mount wars of conquest on their neighbors, or on the "savages" up north (the Ainu tribes). If you were one of those groups (which was relatively anyone who wasn't pure Japanese), you were regarded as inferior. Worse yet, there was more stratifications within the Japanese proper and so the Samuari looked down on the Farmers and the ruling classes looked down on both. Very complex society which is why there is so much in the language about politeness, "meui" (eyes above me) and "meishita" (eyes below me) drives every Japanese from the moment they wake up in the morning until they go to sleep. Gotta be polite to those above you and always be aware of those below you. Racial and societal prejudices are hard-wired into everything they do and think.

Like Tsukimoto points out, Amerasian children, by nature of their "non-japanese-ness" were usually ostracised, so the union of an Okinawan woman with a Gaijin man or vice versa was something that triggered even greater sorts of prejudices since the Japanese would regard an Okinawan as just a characture of a "true japanese".

To sum up what I said above, you can take the Gakkai out of Japan, but you can't take the Japanese out of the Gakkai.

Also, Ikeda for example is simply following the model of a "Shacho" (Industry executive) on down to his reclusiveness and his history of shady dealings. Japanese children, until they are middle school age are typically spoiled and then they are tossed into the competitive fury of exams and raised expectations. Individuals like Ikeda, who have "arrived at their success" seem to regress into a posture of being spoiled little children again, which also explains a lot of his responses and actions.

One last observation, at the core of Japanese Xenophobia is "pride" which drives them to do almost anything to "save face". Embarrass a Japanese man in the wrong context and you've made an enemy for life - instantly. As a matter of fact, by simply pointing out these sorts of things we are causing the current and past Gakkai folks to "lose face", which is why they try so hard to shut down any criticism. To a foreigners eyes, all of this is completely invisible. Once you start speaking the language and relating to the Japanese on the cultural level you typically get categorized and accepted/rejected upon how your social stature decides you should.

Wakatta1

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wakatta1

One last observation, at the core of Japanese Xenophobia is "pride" which drives them to do almost anything to "save face". Embarrass a Japanese man in the wrong context and you've made an enemy for life - instantly. As a matter of fact, by simply pointing out these sorts of things we are causing the current and past Gakkai folks to "lose face", which is why they try so hard to shut down any criticism.

Wakatta1

Perhaps this Japanese attitude is why Toyota has gotten itself into trouble!

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rattyboy
Back in the late '80s during the high pressure NSA/SGI days, I missed a good friend's wedding at the last second due to allowing myself to succumb to pressure around a weekend activity. That friend never talked to me again. I told members that someone was relying on me for a ride to that wedding. No mention of that being a 'bad cause', just hooray for me for doing the 'Buddhist' activity.
Around the same time, I watched a group of young men's division members, (all of us dressed in our 'whites'), pressure a new member to shave his mustache before some big event the next day. He was not into that idea at all but they kept at him. Some of them with borrowed Japanese accents. (Remember the non-Japanese taking on the Japanese accent? Wow.) And he kept arguing back. The next day, the mustache was gone just in time for the big event. I think I was beaming with a smile about this with the other young men. What victory had we achieved? Did this show the almighty power of Buddhism?

My brother and his wife were visiting me from the opposite coast in '87 or '88. *$()#)$ Danny Nagashima was coming to Boston, and I was going to skip the event to take them to the airport. My YMD leader called me and told me that my relatives would just have to understand that the Gakkai activity was more important. I caved. That was also the day that my wife decided that the SGI was a stupid-ass organization and quit her brief practice.

Interesting that when the split occurred between the SGI and the priesthood, that this YMD leader and his wife (another hardcore member) sided with the priesthood and left the SGI.

If you've seen other posts from me, you know that I don't think much of Danny Nagashima. Nor Tariq Hasan, nor David Kasahara.

"If you've seen other posts from me, you know that I don't think much of Danny Nagashima. Nor Tariq Hasan, nor David Kasahara" - dragon14

Very true. The people in my region, and especially the pioneers treat them like celebrities/rock stars. I, along with other people on this forum I'm sure, happen to have learned about their families first hand. Not exactly people I would want to emulate. Did Nichiren have his own rock band? Will they plan a reunion/comeback tour?