@Kittyluv good for you for standing your ground. I have encountered two members and I to have taken the high road when telling them that I no longer want to practice. How mean-spirited of your neighbor to say that you will be in the same position 10 years from now. This is just another mind-controlling tactic of the SGI to keep you in. I agree just keep it short and simple and keep it moving. You don't have to go into a long explanation as to why it that you have left.

Quote
Mav
Awaken, I'm really happy for you that you discovered this forum and decided for yourself what's right for you!

All that talk SGI leaders say about you can be a "Christian and a Buddhist" is pure B.S.! Sorry to be graphic, but I've seen them saying that to new members, and we regular members all knew it was with a wink-wink-nodd-nodd attitude, with the understanding that "Hey, let's just say that so the new member will start chanting." But I guarantee you, if you start becoming a member and still pray to Jesus or have Christian beliefs, somebody will berate you, "Why are you doing that?" if they catch you. Or, if not a berating, it would be in the form of gentler pressure, such as “Oh, let’s have two leaders come and do a home visit on you and talk about your other beliefs!”

Wow, I have been gone from the forum for a long time and this just screamed out at me as I was reading. Yes, this is a classic. This is what I was referring to in my earlier comments.

lthomas, I've read some of your postings and talk about relating. Your experience of getting involved with SGI is so similar to my own. It's like they have the radar out for someone who is in pain mentally and then they pounce. I didn't catch how long you were in SGI, but even after chanting for only a year I actually had guilt when I stopped and fear that something bad would happen to me. It is quite amazing how they do this. Ironically the Catholic Church used to be kind of like SGI and that is why so many people left. It is very different now. Of course, in all my years as a Catholic I never experienced anything like the people in SGI, or those meetings. I found very little warmth or compassion, or empathy. Indeed, these qualities did seem to be abhorrent to these people. There is no way I could survive or thrive in this type of atmosphere. Where the emphasis in my parish is loving one's neighbor, forgiveness, and truly helping those who are hurting or less fortunate, the emphasis in SGI seemed to be getting for oneself exclusively. I'm sure if SGI ran a soup kitchen, as my parish does, it would be for the purpose of enrolling more members, where the purpose our our soup kitchen is to feed people exclusively.

Anyway, those are my thoughts for today. Who would have thought that one short meeting with my neighbor would have brought all this out. I guess it still stings.

@Kitty I've just accepted the fact that it is going to sting for awhile and that there is nothing I can do about it but to breathe and let is sting. Nothing last forever. I practiced for four years and in those four years while I enjoyed some of the experiences and some of the meetings-I cannot say this enough but something was just never right. I would try to sit on my thoughts and convince myself that I was the problem and that I was being negative, but the more and more I saw the mistreatment of others at meetings the more I knew I had to get out. As far as being spiritual, spirit comes in so many avenues of our lives, it could be through dance, music, doing for other, and yes chanting if that is what one still chooses to do, but the organization is warped, especially that whole mentor-disciple thing which I refuse to have anything to do with.

Quote: lthomas : "The minute you give up on an aspect of faith they think that you are doomed to a life of hell.

I have had members come up to me on a perfectly fine day and ask me how I am doing. When I have told them that I am ok, they have literally given me a condescending look and said, "Are you sure about that" because you don't seem happy to me.

I should also like to say that as a person who has suffered from depression there were times when I was just plain sad or there was nothing wrong with me at all. Neither happy nor sad just being. When things like that would happen I would be told that I was in the "fourth world", which is the Humane State and that I was just letting my life pass me by without a goal or a determination. The focus was always on obtaining something through a goal or some kind of "determination". Sometimes I did not want anything, I just wanted to be. "

Quote: Kittiluv: "So we talked about things and I said that things were rough -- the economy, you know -- and she said I had to chant. If I did not chant I would still be in the same position 10 years from now.

I have heard these things from leaders! It's so annoying!

Am I sure I'm happy, indeed! How condescending they are, thinking that they know so much more than I do about how I feel.

As for the "Your life won't change," or "Your life WILL change -- for the worse," if I leave SGI -- how in the hell would they know that? Are they psychic? NOBODY knows what is going to happen in ten years, and many SGI senior leaders have suffered great misfortune and tragedy -- the Kasaharas losing their son in an accident, Mr. Aoyama being on one of the planes that was flown into the World Trade Center, Ronnie Smith dying of cancer, Josei Toda dying of chronic health problems at the age of 58. Chanting -- and SGI are NOT some lucky charm that can protect you from all harm.

SGI leaders are not psychics, with some magical power to see into the future or read your mind. When they tell you that bad things will happen to you if you leave -- or that you're unhappy, even when you know you feel fine -- they're pretending to know things that they couldn't possibly know!

I hate that SGI has mixed up the teachings of Buddhism with all this superstitious nonsense!

As for this goals bit, it always annoyed me how I was supposed to have some grand, next-to-impossible goal. It's not that I'm a slug. I have a decent job that I work hard at. I care about being a good wife, friend and family member. That is not enough for SGI. Apparently, I was also supposed to be working more hours for SGI while trying to get my PhD and raise five orphans from Rwanda. (Please note: I am not putting down anyone who wants to get a PhD and raise orphans from Rwanda. If that's what you want to do, more power to you!)

What I object to is how SGI is constantly glorifying this workaholic, go-go-go overscheduled lifestyle. Linda Johnson, for example, gave a speech about how she has this very busy job as a prosecutor, going to court herself and supervising other lawyers -- and then she also has two demanding positions in SGI. If that's what she wants to do, fine, that's her choice. What I dislike is that this is held up as an example to the rest of us -- we should be doing the same. Well, I don't want to! I would like to have a personal life, time for hobbies and friends, time to stop and smell the roses! When I tried to explain this to my leaders, their attitude was that I was being selfish and lazy, content with a narrow little life.

Nonsense! I work quite hard at my job and at home -- but I also consider it important to have balance in my life. I have seen many SGI leaders who are miserable, exhausted, and overstressed -- and their families suffer too from their overinvolvement with SGI.

Even if I loved SGI, that's not for me. It's not a healthy way to live.

But, it's good for SGI. They get all that free labor -- and if you're always dissatisfied with your life, always wanting more -- they can hook you in. You will go for more guidance, and be told to chant more and do more activities, you'll feel more stressed, go for more guidance....you'll be like a hamster on an exercise wheel, running, running, running and never getting anywhere.

A person who is satisfied with his or her life is really threatening to people with something to sell -- be it a religion, self-help, or material things! Can't have you just content to live your life!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2010 10:31AM by tsukimoto.

Dear Tsukimoto:

You wrote:

"What I object to is how SGI is constantly glorifying this workaholic, go-go-go overscheduled lifestyle. Linda Johnson, for example, gave a speech about how she has this very busy job as a prosecutor, going to court herself and supervising other lawyers -- and then she also has two demanding positions in SGI. If that's what she wants to do, fine, that's her choice. What I dislike is that this is held up as an example to the rest of us -- we should be doing the same. Well, I don't want to! I would like to have a personal life, time for hobbies and friends, time to stop and smell the roses! When I tried to explain this to my leaders, their attitude was that I was being selfish and lazy, content with a narrow little life.

Nonsense! I work quite hard at my job and at home -- but I also consider it important to have balance in my life. I have seen many SGI leaders who are miserable, exhausted, and overstressed -- and their families suffer too from their overinvolvement with SGI.

Even if I loved SGI, that's not for me. It's not a healthy way to live."

Nichiren realized this and he taught,

"But for your person as a householder the essence is for you to chant 'Namu Myoho renge kyo' with no other thought and also make offerings to the monks. And also, if it is in accord with the sutra text, one should also 'expound it according to their strength,' shouldn't one?" [Reply to Lord Matsuno]

The key here, I think, is "according to your strength", not the strength of another. They change Nichiren's teachings for their self serving ends yet, they have the nerve, not only to call themselves, "Nichiren Buddhists" but "The One True Nichiren Sect". Shameful. They have become a bizarre parody of Buddhism.

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2010 02:11PM by Nichijew.

@SGBYE and tsukimoto I feel you guys both, on the "go-go-go overscheduled lifestyle!! They would always contradict themselves on that because they would always say that SGI is an organization that helps you to deal with your problems in the real world. You go to meetings chant at your homes and then you go out into society. But it was never like that for some of the members. Some of them would eat, breathe, and sleep SGI. Most of all of their friends were in the organization. It go so to the point that some of them would actually clean the toilets of the bathrooms at the community center just to prove how much of a buddha that they could be ( I kid you not). I thought it was very weird but this member would go around telling this story just to prove how much she was, "a Boddhisatva of the earth" Also I remember when I quit working so that I could focus on school for awhile. One of the members was so adamant about me participating in as many "SGI activities " as I possibly could so that I could find the "perfect job". I remember after a year of practicing I used to volunteer at the bookstore. It was one of the most boring things (besides the world tribune) that I could have ever done. Furthermore, another thing that tripped me out was when a YWD territory leader had to report to another leader and (I can't quite remember how this happened) but she had to start reporting to someone else. It was strange because she had developed a friendship with the girl and was told that she could not talk to her anymore. The young woman was really saddened even though she tried to play it off.
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Howdy y'all.

I just had this idea. First of all, I am also one of the many grateful former siggies who came across this forum. Had I not read these posts, I would still be under that weird love-hate/passive-aggressive cycle that came from the org. Obviously, we were all told in no uncertain terms that leaving the Gagkai will make our lives miserable.

Didn't Nichiren say that there must be proof in order to have faith? Well, I have a feeling those who told us of how we would suffer if we left the Cult are only basing their beliefs on hearsay.

Why not give them proof that we are okay? That our lives are better? Write an 'experience' on this forum so that if other people in the future are thinking about leaving, they would come across our posts and see life is good without them.

I will start with myself in the next post.

I was a Soka member since 2005 and I left November 2009.

One of the biggest things I got back after I left is my personal power. I remember back in the day when someone did something rude or inconsiderate towards me, they would apologize to me and say next time they'll chant more. I would disparage those people.

The irony here, is that I am like them. My life couldn't improve because I didn't chant enough. I can never be with friends because I didn't chant enough. I could never be happy because I didn't chant enough.

Now that I left, I realized it's not a question if I chant this much daimoku a day, it's a choice of whether I want to be happy and whether I want to improve. I don't need a quota to chant each day if I want to be good to people. In fact, I never needed chanting at all for that. If I want to be good, then I shall be good. If I want to be happy, then I will be happy. That is that. There is no need for me to chant x number of hours a day for that.

As for building up good or bad fortune, I also learned it's all up to me. Now that there is more clarity in my vision, there is a greater sense of honor that I hold to myself. I know that if I were truly good to people, whether I chant for them or not, then there is good fortune. If acted in a selfish manner towards others, therein lies my misfortune.

Another thing that I got from leaving the SGI is a sense of focus. Sure I was doing the job hunting for awhile, but I also depended too much on the daimoku to find the perfect job for me. Now that I stopped, I realized there is no such thing as a perfect job, it's just what job is perfect for you. Since I stopped, I focused a lot more on what I want to do. I am studying for a very difficult government exam, trying to get money for grad school, and even contemplating the military. The important thing here is if I don't get what I immediately want, I can learn to survive and enjoy what is there to enjoy.

Lastly, I now have a greater sense of humility. I can never think to myself I'm better than others because I chant. I came to realize that we all have our problems. To disrespect someone for their misfortune is the opposite of humanism. I, too, will make more mistakes in the future. Yet, I will cry, I will despondent, then I will learn from my mistakes, laugh at myself, and move on.

Sure, I still chant once in a while, however I don't depend on the gohonzon for anything. I am more dependable and life is getting better now that I am asking myself to bring in good fortune over a piece of paper. I am learning from myself what life is and what isn't rather than learning from Japanese Santa Claus.

In the end, I can create my own fortune.

Dear Dr.Jesusesq:

Your comment, likening Ikeda to Santa Clause, is appropriate. "The Emporer has no clothes" too, is appropriate. Ikeda and his minions are so jealous of Shakyamuni Buddha that they threw him out of his own religion and years ago, when others would protest the centrality of Ikeda to the SGI, they would retort, "Shakyamuni the Easter Bunny" or "Shakyamuni Buddha? Do you mean Santa Claus?" It is strange that Shakyamuni Buddha, not only is rarely mentioned [in a so-called Nichiren sect], but they defame him. Nichiren mentions Shakyamuni Buddha thousands of times and with great reverence and deference. Were people to follow the Law rather than the person [of Ikeda], there would be no SGI. They fear Shakyamuni Buddha and the Lotus Sutra because belief in them [rather than Ikeda and the SGI] will put them out of a job.

Nichijew