Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
wayfarerfree
()
Date: January 03, 2010 03:27AM
Thanks Tsukimoto.
My intitial response to that is - the bloody f###### b#######!
I have no respect for SGI at all, having found that out (SGI priests).
Thanks , havnt read it all, since Im in "letting feet relax drinking tea mode" atm, but will come back to it later this evening.
Its a shame, though, in a way, because SGI, whilst I was attempting to continue to live within its parameters, had me so scared of free thinking that I would never have found this site, thinking it "a devilish function", or even looked for it. And now that Ive shed myself of their BS, Im not in contact with anyone to question them about the myriad inconsistancies of the Ikeda Cult, and dont really want to be either. Better to be free, IMHO, than have them drive me to argument.
The end of the month is looking like the time when I can return MY Gohonzon.
Ive decided to do it in person.
It woulnt take much provocation for me to tell them what I think of their manipulation of the past 4 years of my life.
My intitial response to that is - the bloody f###### b#######!
I have no respect for SGI at all, having found that out (SGI priests).
Thanks , havnt read it all, since Im in "letting feet relax drinking tea mode" atm, but will come back to it later this evening.
Its a shame, though, in a way, because SGI, whilst I was attempting to continue to live within its parameters, had me so scared of free thinking that I would never have found this site, thinking it "a devilish function", or even looked for it. And now that Ive shed myself of their BS, Im not in contact with anyone to question them about the myriad inconsistancies of the Ikeda Cult, and dont really want to be either. Better to be free, IMHO, than have them drive me to argument.
The end of the month is looking like the time when I can return MY Gohonzon.
Ive decided to do it in person.
It woulnt take much provocation for me to tell them what I think of their manipulation of the past 4 years of my life.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
dragon14
()
Date: January 03, 2010 04:01AM
Quote
SGBye
Here's an excerpt from Ikeda's New Year's Message in the 1/1/10 issue of the World Tribune. It may be one of his kookiest quotes yet regarding the mentor-disciple relationship:
"The Brazilian astronomer Dr. Ronaldo Mourao, with whom I have published a dialogue, remarked that an individual's innate potential can blossom in a much more vigorous form through the mentor-disciple relationship, and he said that he considered this the most correct 'orbit' for human beings to travel."
Huh? What? If someone out there can logically explain what the hell that even means, I'd appreciate it.
I can see that if someone finds a together, wise person to mentor him/her, there can be a very beneficial relationship, and the "disciple" can potentially make gains beyond what one can do on one's own.
But if the mentor is a fool, it's not going to do the disciple much good to follow him.
Now that I think of it, "disciple" is mostly a religious word. It goes pretty badly with "mentor" in a pairing. Maybe the SGI should have called it the teacher-student relationship; but again, if the teacher is a fool, the student is going to be diminshed by latching on to that relationship.
Ikeda IS NOT my mentor; ya better believe it!
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
sushigrl
()
Date: January 03, 2010 04:05AM
Oh man...the $GI BS gets deeper and deeper. I'm sure they bribed those priests with enough yen to make it worthwhile. The SGI's grip on its members' minds (the indestructible fortress of the $GI) is truly frightening in its scope. I am soo glad there is this forum here. The gohonzon is looking more and more like a symbol of a truly unpleasant chapter in my life. Glad I can see that!!!
Looking at it now, I'm sure that the $GI exacerbated the health problems that Ms Ehlmann was having. How's THAT for a world peace org. And that pitiful excuse for a world peace member Alan Simmons. But, ya got to love it. WE need people like him to show the true face of Cousin Rufus now don't we!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 04:25AM by sushigrl.
Looking at it now, I'm sure that the $GI exacerbated the health problems that Ms Ehlmann was having. How's THAT for a world peace org. And that pitiful excuse for a world peace member Alan Simmons. But, ya got to love it. WE need people like him to show the true face of Cousin Rufus now don't we!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 04:25AM by sushigrl.
WARNING: for those leaving SGI, about the SGI retention tactics
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 03, 2010 04:20AM
Just a serious warning, for anyone.
These sects and cults, have highly organized and powerful techniques they use on members trying to get out.
Even people trained in these areas for years have to be very careful, or they can get lured back in.
For example, the SGI policy about returning a Gohonzon to them. This gives SGI one last chance to really have a go at a person. If they know the person is coming to the office, they will have those who are trained in that process meet with that person.
They will run their most powerful techniques on that person, they could bombard them.
In this thread, SGI recruiters have put people in a room with a group of SGI members, and have used extreme pressure on them for many hours.
So one must never underestimate sects and cults, and their methods.
Personally, speaking from experience....if something was ordered by the sect to be returned, then that item would be destroyed.
Or if it had to be returned in person, then a friend who was very very experienced with cults, would come along as a witness to what happened, and even record or film it.
Be extremely careful, they can twist everything around, and are trained to handle objections, and even get information.
For example, when leaving Scientology, some people have had first hand experience with people doing that. That is not something to take lightly, even for an experienced person. Personally, I would never advise trying to leave Scientology in person, even with a witness. Its too risky.
If there is any contact person to person, then perhaps it could be to deliver a notarized NO CONTACT letter.
Of couse, each person has to make up their own mind.
But beware, these cults and sects are very advanced, and they know what they are doing. It might seem extreme, but its not. People get stuck in them for years, and they get out, and then lured right back in.
A rule of thumb might be, if a person had studied cult techniques for 10 years, then perhaps they can face several cult recruiters at once, and be able to deal with all of their techniques. Perhaps, but everyone has blind spots.
One could also ask an expert for advice on how to exit a cult like SGI, or others.
Here is a blunt viewpoint.
This SGI return the Gohonzon nonsense, is a SGI tactic to try and keep their fingers into the members who are trying to leave. They can then use family tactics, social pressure, threats, fear, scare-tactics on the person. They can then have many SGI members start calling and Love-Bombing the person, at the same time other SGI are threatening a horrible death for leaving SGI.
Those tactics work on many people.
Even someone with many years experience, is very very cautious in dealing with any cult on their home turf, that is potentially very slippery and dangerous.
Of course, each person has to make up their own mind on what to do, or not do.
These sects and cults, have highly organized and powerful techniques they use on members trying to get out.
Even people trained in these areas for years have to be very careful, or they can get lured back in.
For example, the SGI policy about returning a Gohonzon to them. This gives SGI one last chance to really have a go at a person. If they know the person is coming to the office, they will have those who are trained in that process meet with that person.
They will run their most powerful techniques on that person, they could bombard them.
In this thread, SGI recruiters have put people in a room with a group of SGI members, and have used extreme pressure on them for many hours.
So one must never underestimate sects and cults, and their methods.
Personally, speaking from experience....if something was ordered by the sect to be returned, then that item would be destroyed.
Or if it had to be returned in person, then a friend who was very very experienced with cults, would come along as a witness to what happened, and even record or film it.
Be extremely careful, they can twist everything around, and are trained to handle objections, and even get information.
For example, when leaving Scientology, some people have had first hand experience with people doing that. That is not something to take lightly, even for an experienced person. Personally, I would never advise trying to leave Scientology in person, even with a witness. Its too risky.
If there is any contact person to person, then perhaps it could be to deliver a notarized NO CONTACT letter.
Of couse, each person has to make up their own mind.
But beware, these cults and sects are very advanced, and they know what they are doing. It might seem extreme, but its not. People get stuck in them for years, and they get out, and then lured right back in.
A rule of thumb might be, if a person had studied cult techniques for 10 years, then perhaps they can face several cult recruiters at once, and be able to deal with all of their techniques. Perhaps, but everyone has blind spots.
One could also ask an expert for advice on how to exit a cult like SGI, or others.
Here is a blunt viewpoint.
This SGI return the Gohonzon nonsense, is a SGI tactic to try and keep their fingers into the members who are trying to leave. They can then use family tactics, social pressure, threats, fear, scare-tactics on the person. They can then have many SGI members start calling and Love-Bombing the person, at the same time other SGI are threatening a horrible death for leaving SGI.
Those tactics work on many people.
Even someone with many years experience, is very very cautious in dealing with any cult on their home turf, that is potentially very slippery and dangerous.
Of course, each person has to make up their own mind on what to do, or not do.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
sushigrl
()
Date: January 03, 2010 04:31AM
I think that is a fair warning given the extent of the threats of "spiritual" suicide, as well as the threat of mental problems after leaving. It does take some time to regain personal freedom of thought, especially if a person has been bombarded by years of veiled and not so veiled $GI tactics. Myself, I wouldn't want to give $GI the satisfaction of even thinking it had the last word on my gohonzon, or my life or ANYTHING!!! IT'S NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!! But yes, that's my take on it :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 04:45AM by sushigrl.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 04:45AM by sushigrl.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
sushigrl
()
Date: January 03, 2010 04:59AM
We've probably posted all this before, but it's so right. It's $GI bang on.The Cult Test [www.orange-papers.org] (Basically everything needs to be bold type)
Questions 1 to 10
by A. Orange
* 1. The Guru is always right.
* 2. You are always wrong.
* 3. No Exit.
* 4. No Graduates.
* 5. Cult-speak.
* 6. Group-think, Suppression of Dissent, and Enforced Conformity in Thinking
* 7. Irrationality.
* 8. Suspension of disbelief.
* 9. Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions...
* 10. Personal attacks on critics.
* 11. Insistence that the cult is THE ONLY WAY.
* 12. The cult and its members are special.
* 13. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate cult members.
* 14. Unquestionable Dogma, Sacred Science, and Infallible Ideology.
* 15. Indoctrination of members.
* 16. Appeals to "holy" or "wise" authorities.
* 17. Instant Community.
* 18. Instant Intimacy.
* 19. Surrender To The Cult.
* 20. Giggly wonderfulness and starry-eyed faith.
* 21. Personal testimonies of earlier converts.
* 22. The cult is self-absorbed.
* 23. Dual Purposes, Hidden Agendas, and Ulterior Motives.
* 24. Aggressive Recruiting.
* 25. Deceptive Recruiting.
* 26. No Humor.
* 27. You Can't Tell The Truth.
* 28. Cloning — You become a clone of the cult leader or other elder cult members.
* 29. You must change your beliefs to conform to the group's beliefs.
* 30. The End Justifies The Means.
* 31. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.
* 32. Different Levels of Truth.
* 33. Newcomers can't think right.
* 34. The Cult Implants Phobias.
* 35. The Cult is Money-Grubbing.
* 36. Confession Sessions.
* 37. A System of Punishments and Rewards.
* 38. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection.
* 39. Mentoring.
* 40. Intrusiveness.
* 41. Disturbed Guru, Mentally Ill Leader.
* 42. Disturbed Members, Mentally Ill Followers.
* 43. Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, guilt, and dependency.
* 44. Dispensed existence
* 45. Ideology Over Experience, Observation, and Logic
* 46. Keep them unaware that there is an agenda to change them
* 47. Thought-Stopping Language. Thought-terminating clichés and slogans.
* 48. Mystical Manipulation
* 49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total committment.
* 50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust
* 51. Members Get No Respect. They Get Abused.
* 52. Inconsistency. Contradictory Messages
* 53. Hierarchical, Authoritarian Power Structure, and Social Castes
* 54. Front groups, masquerading recruiters, hidden promoters, and disguised propagandists
* 55. Belief equals truth
* 56. Use of double-binds
* 57. The cult leader is not held accountable for his actions.
* 58. Everybody else needs the guru to boss him around, but nobody bosses the guru around.
* 59. The guru criticizes everybody else, but nobody criticizes the guru.
* 60. Dispensed truth and social definition of reality
* 61. The Guru Is Extra-Special.
* 62. Flexible, shifting morality
* 63. Separatism
* 64. Inability to tolerate criticism
* 65. A Charismatic Leader
* 66. Calls to Obliterate Self
* 67. Don't Trust Your Own Mind.
* 68. Don't Feel Your Own Feelings.
* 69. The cult takes over the individual's decision-making process.
* 70. You Owe The Group.
* 71. We Have The Panacea.
* 72. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments
* 73. Magical, Mystical, Unexplainable Workings
* 74. Trance-Inducing Practices
* 75. New Identity — Redefinition of Self — Revision of Personal History
* 76. Membership Rivalry
* 77. True Believers
* 78. Scapegoating and Excommunication
* 79. Promised Powers or Knowledge
* 80. It's a con. You don't get the promised goodies.
* 81. Hypocrisy
* 82. Denial of the truth. Reversal of reality. Rationalization and Denial.
* 83. Seeing Through Tinted Lenses
* 84. You can't make it without the cult.
* 85. Enemy-making and Devaluing the Outsider
* 86. The cult wants to own you.
* 87. Channelling or other occult, unchallengeable, sources of information.
* 88. They Make You Dependent On The Group.
* 89. Demands For Compliance With The Group
* 90. Newcomers Need Fixing.
* 91. Use of the Cognitive Dissonance Technique.
* 92. Grandiose existence. Bombastic, Grandiose Claims.
* 93. Black And White Thinking
* 94. The use of heavy-duty mind control and rapid conversion techniques.
* 95. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult.
* 96. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who criticizes the cult.
* 97. Appropriation of all of the members' worldly wealth.
* 98. Making cult members work long hours for free.
* 99. Total immersion and total isolation.
* 100. Mass suicide.
* Bibliography
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 05:03AM by sushigrl.
Questions 1 to 10
by A. Orange
* 1. The Guru is always right.
* 2. You are always wrong.
* 3. No Exit.
* 4. No Graduates.
* 5. Cult-speak.
* 6. Group-think, Suppression of Dissent, and Enforced Conformity in Thinking
* 7. Irrationality.
* 8. Suspension of disbelief.
* 9. Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions...
* 10. Personal attacks on critics.
* 11. Insistence that the cult is THE ONLY WAY.
* 12. The cult and its members are special.
* 13. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate cult members.
* 14. Unquestionable Dogma, Sacred Science, and Infallible Ideology.
* 15. Indoctrination of members.
* 16. Appeals to "holy" or "wise" authorities.
* 17. Instant Community.
* 18. Instant Intimacy.
* 19. Surrender To The Cult.
* 20. Giggly wonderfulness and starry-eyed faith.
* 21. Personal testimonies of earlier converts.
* 22. The cult is self-absorbed.
* 23. Dual Purposes, Hidden Agendas, and Ulterior Motives.
* 24. Aggressive Recruiting.
* 25. Deceptive Recruiting.
* 26. No Humor.
* 27. You Can't Tell The Truth.
* 28. Cloning — You become a clone of the cult leader or other elder cult members.
* 29. You must change your beliefs to conform to the group's beliefs.
* 30. The End Justifies The Means.
* 31. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.
* 32. Different Levels of Truth.
* 33. Newcomers can't think right.
* 34. The Cult Implants Phobias.
* 35. The Cult is Money-Grubbing.
* 36. Confession Sessions.
* 37. A System of Punishments and Rewards.
* 38. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection.
* 39. Mentoring.
* 40. Intrusiveness.
* 41. Disturbed Guru, Mentally Ill Leader.
* 42. Disturbed Members, Mentally Ill Followers.
* 43. Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, guilt, and dependency.
* 44. Dispensed existence
* 45. Ideology Over Experience, Observation, and Logic
* 46. Keep them unaware that there is an agenda to change them
* 47. Thought-Stopping Language. Thought-terminating clichés and slogans.
* 48. Mystical Manipulation
* 49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total committment.
* 50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust
* 51. Members Get No Respect. They Get Abused.
* 52. Inconsistency. Contradictory Messages
* 53. Hierarchical, Authoritarian Power Structure, and Social Castes
* 54. Front groups, masquerading recruiters, hidden promoters, and disguised propagandists
* 55. Belief equals truth
* 56. Use of double-binds
* 57. The cult leader is not held accountable for his actions.
* 58. Everybody else needs the guru to boss him around, but nobody bosses the guru around.
* 59. The guru criticizes everybody else, but nobody criticizes the guru.
* 60. Dispensed truth and social definition of reality
* 61. The Guru Is Extra-Special.
* 62. Flexible, shifting morality
* 63. Separatism
* 64. Inability to tolerate criticism
* 65. A Charismatic Leader
* 66. Calls to Obliterate Self
* 67. Don't Trust Your Own Mind.
* 68. Don't Feel Your Own Feelings.
* 69. The cult takes over the individual's decision-making process.
* 70. You Owe The Group.
* 71. We Have The Panacea.
* 72. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments
* 73. Magical, Mystical, Unexplainable Workings
* 74. Trance-Inducing Practices
* 75. New Identity — Redefinition of Self — Revision of Personal History
* 76. Membership Rivalry
* 77. True Believers
* 78. Scapegoating and Excommunication
* 79. Promised Powers or Knowledge
* 80. It's a con. You don't get the promised goodies.
* 81. Hypocrisy
* 82. Denial of the truth. Reversal of reality. Rationalization and Denial.
* 83. Seeing Through Tinted Lenses
* 84. You can't make it without the cult.
* 85. Enemy-making and Devaluing the Outsider
* 86. The cult wants to own you.
* 87. Channelling or other occult, unchallengeable, sources of information.
* 88. They Make You Dependent On The Group.
* 89. Demands For Compliance With The Group
* 90. Newcomers Need Fixing.
* 91. Use of the Cognitive Dissonance Technique.
* 92. Grandiose existence. Bombastic, Grandiose Claims.
* 93. Black And White Thinking
* 94. The use of heavy-duty mind control and rapid conversion techniques.
* 95. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult.
* 96. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who criticizes the cult.
* 97. Appropriation of all of the members' worldly wealth.
* 98. Making cult members work long hours for free.
* 99. Total immersion and total isolation.
* 100. Mass suicide.
* Bibliography
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 05:03AM by sushigrl.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
DrJesusEsq
()
Date: January 03, 2010 08:28AM
JF Christ! Again with Brazil!! That's all we have to hear about! Does he really want the siggies in America to cry like babies yearning for him like he's got milk to give??
That man is sick!
That man is sick!
Re: Former SGI members: Byrd's Shunning
Posted by:
tsukimoto
()
Date: January 03, 2010 09:09AM
Comments to Byrd's "It's a Blog, Guys," [www.fraughtwithperil.com]
Apparently the two leaders who wanted to visit her were from Burbank. Unfortunately, Byrd doesn't name names. Anyone from California know who were SGI leaders in Burbank, in the Spring/Summer of 2008?
It also seems as if there may be more to the story -- that the "potluck" Byrd was told to stay away from may also have been an anti-Nichiren Shoshu meeting. And the bigwigs at SGI did not want Byrd blogging about that.
Now, Byrd wasn't a Nichiren Shoshu supporter, as far as I could tell. My sense is that she wouldn't have liked the authoritarianism of certain priests -- but that she would have opened her heart to any sincere, decent person, no matter what sect they practiced with.
Byrd did have some friends in Nichiren Shu, and an acquaintance, at least online, with two Nichiren Shu priests, Ryuei and Engyo. Many SGI members and some leaders, do not seem to know the difference between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu. They are two different sects. Many SGI members and leaders are just so paranoid...they don't want to know about the differences in other Nichiren sects. All they'd see is -- "Byrd talks to priests!" They wouldn't even know that there's a difference between Nichiren Shu priests and Nichiren Shoshu priests. It's like ringing the bell at Pavlov's dog kennel....SGI members just seem programmed to froth at the mouth when they hear the word "priest."
That may have been part of Byrd's problem, in addition to publicly questioning SGI/Ikeda -- SGI may also have concluded, erroneously, that Byrd was a Nichiren Shoshu supporter.
Interesting that Mark Rogow mentions Monte Jaffee. Jaffee is strongly opposed to Nichiren Shoshu. Interestingly, he also was a friend and mentor of Phillip Scharper, "the hate-chanting principal." Scharper was sacked from his job as principal of Public School #24, in Riverdale, the Bronx, because he and some teachers were 'hate-chanting' in the office during school hours.
What a mess of hatred, anger, and paranoia!
---------------Beginning of Quote---------------------------------------------------------------------
I would love to know who the two leaders were. Anyone I used to know?
Posted by: David at July 14, 2008 05:45 PM
Hi, Dave! I don't think so - they're in the Burbank Area, and you were out of Pico (I believe), right? I'm not so much hurt as I am sort of stunned. Talk to you soon, Yer pal, Byrd
You are being monitored on Buddha Jones, it is owned and run by SGI. Some kind of world take over the world program right now, actually insidious. Anyway, I posted the data on Rogow's blob somewhere, but it is true, I also emailed the info to Chuck, and NO, I am not trying to start an argument, people that like "Turning Japanese" don't start arguments.
Bruce
Posted by: Bruce Maltz at July 15, 2008 12:33 AM
Hi, Byrd -
Good luck with your writing; if you are getting this level of distraction, you must be writing something wonderful!
Namaste, Engyo Mike Barrett
Posted by: Engyo Mike Barrett at July 15, 2008 04:16 AM
Byrd,
Did you attend the meeting anyway? You didn't say, but I hope you did.
You know how I feel, of course. If I were you I would start by naming names. Who were the Ikedabots who insulted you? Tell the world.
And you know that I, too, wonder why you remain in the organization. It WILL NOT change, ever. This is a fact, demonstrated years ago by folks like Maltz and Rogow and others, then by Ross, and more recently (because I'm a slow learner) by me and folks like Brian Holly.
Do what you have to do, my friend, but please don't take any shit. You deserve better. Let me know what I can do in support. Call if you want to. That really sucks.
Cheers to you!
Andy
Posted by: Andy Hanlen at July 15, 2008 08:54 AM
Much as I respect you, I have to disagree. It's not just aberrations in Bryd's neck-of-the-woods or yours. Byrd used to think it just happened out where I live. That my (former) leaders were somehow more conservative, more reactionary.
I think part of the reason that the org discourages the Internet is because we can see what's going on everywhere. This kind of leadership behavior is not a local phenomenon. It's being directed from somewhere, whether that somewhere is Japan or Santa Monica. It's not just Byrd's karma.
There has to come a point where one's personal dignity and integrity doesn't allow one to put up with this kind of behavior. One doesn't need the SGI to practice Nichiren's Buddhism. It took me 2 years of hell-in-the-org before I came to the conclusion that I was better off out than in, and it took my wiser husband about 2 minutes to make the same decision.
Posted by: Michele at July 15, 2008 01:24 PM
Hi, Ashley - I will be blogging more on this later on this week. I don't think it was just these few leaders, as I later discovered that Sunday (July 13) was a sort of national Soka Spirit stand up for the Mentor and defeat the evil temple influence campaign day (The Day of Justice, or something like that). I've written previous blogs taking Japan to task for not respecting the Temple members' religious freedom rights, and this caused PI some embarassment in Japan. I think they were concerned that I not stumble into an anti-temple gathering, expecting a normal faith potluck, and then vent about it onlnine, causing the same kind of embarassment to PI on his home turf.
The friend with whom I was supposed to go to the potluck called me and told me that I needed to get guidance from Soka Spirit, so I think this came from quite far up the line. Thanks for your good wishes, though.
Wahzoh
Posted by: Byrd in LA at July 15, 2008 04:45 PM
byrd, first of all let me congratulate you!!! I think you will find in my comment section, here or elsewhere, that you weren't long for the SGI because they could never tolerate your open minded ideas. Three weeks ago I contacted a former SGI friend of mine, Monte Jaffee, an SGI senior leader in the New York area whose son is the YMD chief of all of New York. I was hoping that he would broker a deal with the top SGI leaders to have that debate I proposed. I gave him the URL of my blog three weeks ago so he could see where I was coming from. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand in this matter. Jaffee also has an SGI anti-NST website and he is a strong voice in the anti-NST movement. Basically, Fraught with peril is not just another Nichiren blog. It has a lot of lurkers and it is the preeminent Nichiren blog in the whole world. once again congratulations.
Mark
Posted by: Mark Rogow at July 15, 2008 04:47 PM
---------------------End of Quote--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 09:17AM by tsukimoto.
Apparently the two leaders who wanted to visit her were from Burbank. Unfortunately, Byrd doesn't name names. Anyone from California know who were SGI leaders in Burbank, in the Spring/Summer of 2008?
It also seems as if there may be more to the story -- that the "potluck" Byrd was told to stay away from may also have been an anti-Nichiren Shoshu meeting. And the bigwigs at SGI did not want Byrd blogging about that.
Now, Byrd wasn't a Nichiren Shoshu supporter, as far as I could tell. My sense is that she wouldn't have liked the authoritarianism of certain priests -- but that she would have opened her heart to any sincere, decent person, no matter what sect they practiced with.
Byrd did have some friends in Nichiren Shu, and an acquaintance, at least online, with two Nichiren Shu priests, Ryuei and Engyo. Many SGI members and some leaders, do not seem to know the difference between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu. They are two different sects. Many SGI members and leaders are just so paranoid...they don't want to know about the differences in other Nichiren sects. All they'd see is -- "Byrd talks to priests!" They wouldn't even know that there's a difference between Nichiren Shu priests and Nichiren Shoshu priests. It's like ringing the bell at Pavlov's dog kennel....SGI members just seem programmed to froth at the mouth when they hear the word "priest."
That may have been part of Byrd's problem, in addition to publicly questioning SGI/Ikeda -- SGI may also have concluded, erroneously, that Byrd was a Nichiren Shoshu supporter.
Interesting that Mark Rogow mentions Monte Jaffee. Jaffee is strongly opposed to Nichiren Shoshu. Interestingly, he also was a friend and mentor of Phillip Scharper, "the hate-chanting principal." Scharper was sacked from his job as principal of Public School #24, in Riverdale, the Bronx, because he and some teachers were 'hate-chanting' in the office during school hours.
What a mess of hatred, anger, and paranoia!
---------------Beginning of Quote---------------------------------------------------------------------
I would love to know who the two leaders were. Anyone I used to know?
Posted by: David at July 14, 2008 05:45 PM
Hi, Dave! I don't think so - they're in the Burbank Area, and you were out of Pico (I believe), right? I'm not so much hurt as I am sort of stunned. Talk to you soon, Yer pal, Byrd
You are being monitored on Buddha Jones, it is owned and run by SGI. Some kind of world take over the world program right now, actually insidious. Anyway, I posted the data on Rogow's blob somewhere, but it is true, I also emailed the info to Chuck, and NO, I am not trying to start an argument, people that like "Turning Japanese" don't start arguments.
Bruce
Posted by: Bruce Maltz at July 15, 2008 12:33 AM
Hi, Byrd -
Good luck with your writing; if you are getting this level of distraction, you must be writing something wonderful!
Namaste, Engyo Mike Barrett
Posted by: Engyo Mike Barrett at July 15, 2008 04:16 AM
Byrd,
Did you attend the meeting anyway? You didn't say, but I hope you did.
You know how I feel, of course. If I were you I would start by naming names. Who were the Ikedabots who insulted you? Tell the world.
And you know that I, too, wonder why you remain in the organization. It WILL NOT change, ever. This is a fact, demonstrated years ago by folks like Maltz and Rogow and others, then by Ross, and more recently (because I'm a slow learner) by me and folks like Brian Holly.
Do what you have to do, my friend, but please don't take any shit. You deserve better. Let me know what I can do in support. Call if you want to. That really sucks.
Cheers to you!
Andy
Posted by: Andy Hanlen at July 15, 2008 08:54 AM
Much as I respect you, I have to disagree. It's not just aberrations in Bryd's neck-of-the-woods or yours. Byrd used to think it just happened out where I live. That my (former) leaders were somehow more conservative, more reactionary.
I think part of the reason that the org discourages the Internet is because we can see what's going on everywhere. This kind of leadership behavior is not a local phenomenon. It's being directed from somewhere, whether that somewhere is Japan or Santa Monica. It's not just Byrd's karma.
There has to come a point where one's personal dignity and integrity doesn't allow one to put up with this kind of behavior. One doesn't need the SGI to practice Nichiren's Buddhism. It took me 2 years of hell-in-the-org before I came to the conclusion that I was better off out than in, and it took my wiser husband about 2 minutes to make the same decision.
Posted by: Michele at July 15, 2008 01:24 PM
Hi, Ashley - I will be blogging more on this later on this week. I don't think it was just these few leaders, as I later discovered that Sunday (July 13) was a sort of national Soka Spirit stand up for the Mentor and defeat the evil temple influence campaign day (The Day of Justice, or something like that). I've written previous blogs taking Japan to task for not respecting the Temple members' religious freedom rights, and this caused PI some embarassment in Japan. I think they were concerned that I not stumble into an anti-temple gathering, expecting a normal faith potluck, and then vent about it onlnine, causing the same kind of embarassment to PI on his home turf.
The friend with whom I was supposed to go to the potluck called me and told me that I needed to get guidance from Soka Spirit, so I think this came from quite far up the line. Thanks for your good wishes, though.
Wahzoh
Posted by: Byrd in LA at July 15, 2008 04:45 PM
byrd, first of all let me congratulate you!!! I think you will find in my comment section, here or elsewhere, that you weren't long for the SGI because they could never tolerate your open minded ideas. Three weeks ago I contacted a former SGI friend of mine, Monte Jaffee, an SGI senior leader in the New York area whose son is the YMD chief of all of New York. I was hoping that he would broker a deal with the top SGI leaders to have that debate I proposed. I gave him the URL of my blog three weeks ago so he could see where I was coming from. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand in this matter. Jaffee also has an SGI anti-NST website and he is a strong voice in the anti-NST movement. Basically, Fraught with peril is not just another Nichiren blog. It has a lot of lurkers and it is the preeminent Nichiren blog in the whole world. once again congratulations.
Mark
Posted by: Mark Rogow at July 15, 2008 04:47 PM
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 09:17AM by tsukimoto.
Re: Former SGI members:Byrd's Shunning
Posted by:
tsukimoto
()
Date: January 03, 2010 10:07AM
More comments from "It's a Blog, Guys!" www.fraughtwithperil.com
----Beginning of Quote----------------------------------
Hey Byrd,
Thanks for the email. One thing you wrote above sort of stuck out to me: "The friend with whom I was supposed to go to the potluck called me and told me that I needed to get guidance from Soka Spirit, so I think this came from quite far up the line."
So exactly who is Soka Spirit? Do they run the SGI-USA now? They came along after my time, and I always had the impression that they were just a group of over-zealous Youth Division leaders who put up that atrocious web site. But the way you phrase it makes it seem like they are a self-contained group within the SGI-USA or some entity that's taken control.
Posted by David at July 15, 2008 08:19 PM
Here is Monte's website, ABOUT NSTNY,
[nonstny.homestead.com]
Posted by Mark Rogow at July 15, 2008 11:27 PM
Byrd
It just so happens I am reading Fujiwara's "I Denounce Soka Gakkai" now (amazingly managed to find it second hand on the internet). A lot of it is pure controversy for its own sake - but he does however say a lot of home truths: for instance
"Soka Gakkai members, who might be thinking of defecting, find themselves bombarded with strong group pressure, and even though they may be unhappy in the organisation, if they lack strong will power they will most likely be unable to resist. This is why I call this organisationsal style "incarcerating", for at the small unit level it is nothing more than a mutual surveillance unit.
In this sense, it is a system which measures loyalty to the organisation through surveillance and informing on each other. The discipline of the Communist Party is said to be "iron discipline" but through such catch phrases as "philosophy of life", "obutsu myogo" and "Buddhist Doctrine" they obtain discipline through a kind of magic or sorcery, in a word, emotional-religious power...
When we consider the differences between what we ordinarily consider to be discussion meetings among people of equal standing, and the atmosphere of the Soka Gakkai style discussion meetings, to borrow the words of one who attended at meeting:
'Soka Gakkai's discussion meetings are above all meetings for the purpose of indoctrination of members and measuring the strength of belief of each member, and have marked resemblance to "Seishuin Kunwa Zadankai" (Moral Education Meetings) carried on during the war years, and also similar to discussion meetings of the Rightists drill house".
In such meetings, just how much freedom of thought and expression is allowed, or is possible in such an atmosphere, are among questions for consideration."
Steve
Posted by steve at July 16, 2008 08:49 AM
Hi, everybody - wow, I am really amazed to see what an outpouring of interest my little incident has created. I genuinely see where both David and Steve are coming from - the SGI does have a right to run its show the way it wants to run its show. I don't want to question that.
I think my case of being banned differs from Mark (The KH guy) at this blogsite, if only because he is being kicked off of this page because of his conduct on this page. Everyone is in agreement that my conduct at SGI meetings has been exemplary. I have not been even remotely disruptive. I am being banned because of online speech. I think if the SGi wants to have a rule that says "we can ban you from meetings for your online speech", then it would be a good thing for the org to make clear - perhaps a rule they could publish in the World Tribune. That way, no-one will be surprised.
I agree that the SGI can ban me for whatever reason it likes - they can ban me for wearing green socks, if they like. I am hoping for clarification of the rules and who enforces the rules and who makes the judgements, but if the SGI wishes to retain ad hoc power over its members, it can do so. Of course. I would hope that the org would choose to make these ad hoc powers known to the membership, perhaps as part of a pre-Gohonzon conferral discussion with a senior leader. Again, that way, everyone is on the same page.
Of course, I don't know how many new members they're going to attract with that approach, or how many Westerners are going to blaze a glorious trail of world peace through the practice of Buddhism if those are the terms, but of course, you are right, that is the Gakkai leadership's problem.
Posted by Byrd in LA at July 16, 2008 02:52 PM
From what I can gather, the Soka Gakkai is standing up against authoritarian religion. To accomplish that, they must place strict limits on their member's freedoms of speech, association, assembly,
publishing, and so on.
Posted by robin at July 16, 2008 07:03 PM
-------------------End of Quote-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----Beginning of Quote----------------------------------
Hey Byrd,
Thanks for the email. One thing you wrote above sort of stuck out to me: "The friend with whom I was supposed to go to the potluck called me and told me that I needed to get guidance from Soka Spirit, so I think this came from quite far up the line."
So exactly who is Soka Spirit? Do they run the SGI-USA now? They came along after my time, and I always had the impression that they were just a group of over-zealous Youth Division leaders who put up that atrocious web site. But the way you phrase it makes it seem like they are a self-contained group within the SGI-USA or some entity that's taken control.
Posted by David at July 15, 2008 08:19 PM
Here is Monte's website, ABOUT NSTNY,
[nonstny.homestead.com]
Posted by Mark Rogow at July 15, 2008 11:27 PM
Byrd
It just so happens I am reading Fujiwara's "I Denounce Soka Gakkai" now (amazingly managed to find it second hand on the internet). A lot of it is pure controversy for its own sake - but he does however say a lot of home truths: for instance
"Soka Gakkai members, who might be thinking of defecting, find themselves bombarded with strong group pressure, and even though they may be unhappy in the organisation, if they lack strong will power they will most likely be unable to resist. This is why I call this organisationsal style "incarcerating", for at the small unit level it is nothing more than a mutual surveillance unit.
In this sense, it is a system which measures loyalty to the organisation through surveillance and informing on each other. The discipline of the Communist Party is said to be "iron discipline" but through such catch phrases as "philosophy of life", "obutsu myogo" and "Buddhist Doctrine" they obtain discipline through a kind of magic or sorcery, in a word, emotional-religious power...
When we consider the differences between what we ordinarily consider to be discussion meetings among people of equal standing, and the atmosphere of the Soka Gakkai style discussion meetings, to borrow the words of one who attended at meeting:
'Soka Gakkai's discussion meetings are above all meetings for the purpose of indoctrination of members and measuring the strength of belief of each member, and have marked resemblance to "Seishuin Kunwa Zadankai" (Moral Education Meetings) carried on during the war years, and also similar to discussion meetings of the Rightists drill house".
In such meetings, just how much freedom of thought and expression is allowed, or is possible in such an atmosphere, are among questions for consideration."
Steve
Posted by steve at July 16, 2008 08:49 AM
Hi, everybody - wow, I am really amazed to see what an outpouring of interest my little incident has created. I genuinely see where both David and Steve are coming from - the SGI does have a right to run its show the way it wants to run its show. I don't want to question that.
I think my case of being banned differs from Mark (The KH guy) at this blogsite, if only because he is being kicked off of this page because of his conduct on this page. Everyone is in agreement that my conduct at SGI meetings has been exemplary. I have not been even remotely disruptive. I am being banned because of online speech. I think if the SGi wants to have a rule that says "we can ban you from meetings for your online speech", then it would be a good thing for the org to make clear - perhaps a rule they could publish in the World Tribune. That way, no-one will be surprised.
I agree that the SGI can ban me for whatever reason it likes - they can ban me for wearing green socks, if they like. I am hoping for clarification of the rules and who enforces the rules and who makes the judgements, but if the SGI wishes to retain ad hoc power over its members, it can do so. Of course. I would hope that the org would choose to make these ad hoc powers known to the membership, perhaps as part of a pre-Gohonzon conferral discussion with a senior leader. Again, that way, everyone is on the same page.
Of course, I don't know how many new members they're going to attract with that approach, or how many Westerners are going to blaze a glorious trail of world peace through the practice of Buddhism if those are the terms, but of course, you are right, that is the Gakkai leadership's problem.
Posted by Byrd in LA at July 16, 2008 02:52 PM
From what I can gather, the Soka Gakkai is standing up against authoritarian religion. To accomplish that, they must place strict limits on their member's freedoms of speech, association, assembly,
publishing, and so on.
Posted by robin at July 16, 2008 07:03 PM
-------------------End of Quote-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SGI members: Byrd's Shunning, Alan Simmons, burbank
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 03, 2010 10:25AM
Yes, the truth has come out about the "story" about Byrd.
The SGI-USA head-offce targeted Byrd, as her blog was spilling some SGI-USA information SGI wanted to keep hidden.
Which SGI-USA leaders were from Burbank?
Alan Simmons at the time said he was a SGI-USA "district men's division leader", and there is an Alan Simmons in Burbank.
Alan Simmons Productions - Firestorm Videos
[www.firestormvideos.com]
Alan Simmons Productions
P.O. Box 3291
Burbank, CA
Zip Code: 91508
Phone: 800-549-####
[www.discussionmeetings.org]
91501 Burbank CA Jay Higgins jhiggins@
91501 Burbank CA Juan Perez jperezesq@
91501 Burbank CA Matt Ashford stinamatt@
91501 Burbank CA Sunee Koopongskul sunkool@
SGI-USA Burbank District
Burbank, California
www.MrMother.com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 10:32AM by The Anticult.
The SGI-USA head-offce targeted Byrd, as her blog was spilling some SGI-USA information SGI wanted to keep hidden.
Which SGI-USA leaders were from Burbank?
Alan Simmons at the time said he was a SGI-USA "district men's division leader", and there is an Alan Simmons in Burbank.
Alan Simmons Productions - Firestorm Videos
[www.firestormvideos.com]
Alan Simmons Productions
P.O. Box 3291
Burbank, CA
Zip Code: 91508
Phone: 800-549-####
[www.discussionmeetings.org]
91501 Burbank CA Jay Higgins jhiggins@
91501 Burbank CA Juan Perez jperezesq@
91501 Burbank CA Matt Ashford stinamatt@
91501 Burbank CA Sunee Koopongskul sunkool@
SGI-USA Burbank District
Burbank, California
www.MrMother.com
Quote
tsukimoto
Comments to Byrd's "It's a Blog, Guys," [www.fraughtwithperil.com]
Apparently the two leaders who wanted to visit her were from Burbank. Unfortunately, Byrd doesn't name names. Anyone from California know who were SGI leaders in Burbank, in the Spring/Summer of 2008?
It also seems as if there may be more to the story -- that the "potluck" Byrd was told to stay away from may also have been an anti-Nichiren Shoshu meeting. And the bigwigs at SGI did not want Byrd blogging about that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2010 10:32AM by The Anticult.
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