Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: dragon14 ()
Date: December 28, 2009 02:46AM

I've spent the last few days catching up on all the posts here. It has been really busy the last week or so. I got to thinking something that I haven't seen yet in the forum.

* The drum-beat of "mentor/disciple" has gotten louder and more urgent since the split with the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood.
* In that video clip where Ikeda was (among other things) pounding the desk, he seemed to me like he might not have been "all there" mentally
* Ikeda was in poor health as a youngster
* He was pushing 65 at the time of the split with the priesthood

So I started thinking: Could it be that Ikeda had something like a minor stroke in the early 90's, and is still functional enough to go out in front of a crowd and be "eccentric"? And could it further be that in the wake of his weakening faculties, others in the shadows are actually the puppetmasters who are really pulling the strings and setting the direction and tone of the organization (and taking advantage of the tax loopholes to make those billions)?

I haven't seen any significant film footage of Ikeda from before the split. Has he always been like he was in that "desk-pounding" video?

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: December 28, 2009 03:04AM

@ dragon14

Some good issues. It is always been said that he is in poor health although I suspect some myth-building behind that. In the overall structure I can not see that anything major happens in SGI without Mr. Ikeda being at least the initiator.
The split issue and his low profile at the time compared to what is going now can in my opinion be explained with the conflict between SGI and Nichiren Shoshu in the late 70's all that temple issue stuff is not that new you know, it lead to the formation of Shoshinkai.
As I stated before I do not agree with the Fuji-School (Nichiren Shoshu) on a dogmatic level, but I believe they had no other choice. Otherwise SGI would have taken over ... I guess though it bugs Mr. Ikeda to have lost access to Taiseki-ji. I think the worst thing one can do is hurt his ego - if one does one can see the results as an example in the ongoing hate propaganda by SGI against NST. I was in contact with members who were not even around when the split occured and even they are full of that hate b.s. - its the same here in europe (for gods sake the hardly know anything about historic issues in buddhism let alone nichiren buddhism)

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: December 28, 2009 03:38AM

That was some amazing information cross-posted from the offline Sokacult website.
Its important to archive the key info from that Sokcult archive into this thread, as there is a good chance that archive Sokacult site could be "disappeared" after being featured in this thread.

Someone put a lot of intelligent research and work into the Sokacult site, and that is why the SGI went after it and had it taken offline.

SGI wants to control all aspect of the SGI "story" as they as how you manage the minds of the rabble.
Ikeda knows the "rabble" has to be kept in line, and the best way to manage the rabble herd-animal is through fear. Ikeda knows that perfectly well, and has even expressed his contempt for the masses.
So Ikeda uses fear to control and influence the masses, as fear works.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: December 28, 2009 03:46AM

well one might want to conatct the onwer of this site could rick ross not provide this archive in order to make sure it can be accessed by the public?

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: sushigrl ()
Date: December 28, 2009 04:15AM

Dragon14: Yes Mr Ikeda was ill as a child.. But he certainly beefed up in his 40s and 50s. I think it was steroids...(giggle). It would explain a lot about his personality. That "energy" that he has..the wild look in his eyes. (And the pudgy moon face..) Many illnesses are treated with steroids. :) Steroids also promote mental illness and erratic behavior. But heh, that's too kind of me. Soaka Googlieye Ikedabots will surely defend him no matter what. Poor things.

I keep imagining Mrs Ikeda shoving a pacifier in Ikeda's mouth when he starts babbling too much..and don't forget the bib...gotta keep that drooling under control also. The high chair is the perfect platform for his ranting. Yes, he is a sophisticated baby mind you, but he is just as egocentric and ill mannered as a spoiled child. "Give me what I tell you or you will be damned to the hell of incessant Ikedaisms"...oops, they already are. What could be worse.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2009 04:27AM by sushigrl.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: December 28, 2009 04:29AM

@ sushigirl

I still suspect myth building i.e. "look at sensei how he was able to overcome his healthproblems" .... an acquaintance (not a member) of mine was diagnosed with a heart conditions in his teens we all felt sorry for him at the time ist was said he would with luck reach the age of 30. Now like all of us in that bunch we are nearing our fourties - he ist still alive and kicking. Its called medical progress :-)

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: tsukimoto ()
Date: December 28, 2009 07:11AM

Quote
tsukimoto
This is from sokacult.com. It's long -- but Lisa Jones explains many of the issues we've discussed here so clearly!


-------------Beginning of Quote----From Sokacult.com 2004---------------------------------------------------------------

One of Ikeda's recent speeches provides examples of some of the manipulative messages that are communicated to SGI members. Most of Ikeda's speeches follow the same pattern and say mostly the same thing, time after time. But the speech I refer to here was published in the February 27, 2004, World Tribune "special insert." It's SGI President Ikeda's address at a nationwide executive leaders conference held in Tokyo, November 25, 2003.

The paper says,"In this speech commemorating 12 years of the SGI's spiritual independence, SGI President Ikeda discusses the intense growth and development of our organization in accord with the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin."

Right from the start, we are told, as always, that the SGI and its activities accord with the teachings of Nichiren. And of course "spiritual independence" is a big fat euphemism for excommunication from Nichiren Shoshu.

Ikeda begins: "Who are the worthiest of respect? It is those working for the happiness of others, those firmly dedicated to truth and justice. This describes our noble Soka members, each of whom is a priceless treasure."

So he begins with flattery, an example of what cult critics call "love bombing." According to Sensei, if you are a Soka member, you are dedicated to truth and justice; you are working for the happiness of others. ...All of this just by virtue of your membership in Ikeda's organization! How wonderful!

Ikeda continues: "It is imperative that we change the state of the world in which good-hearted ordinary people are oppressed and forced to suffer. This is an age of democracy, an age where people are sovereign. Those in even the most powerful positions of authority are there solely to serve the people. It must never be the other way around. Our second Soka Gakkai president, Josei Toda, strictly taught us this point."

This is the classic Ikeda mixed message. Yes, democracy is a great thing, but Ikeda fails to mention that there is nothing even remotely approaching democracy in SGI. Leaders are not elected, and leadership appointments are not reviewed by the membership. There are no term limits. The membership is not polled or consulted regarding organizational policies. SGI finances are kept secret. Ikeda pays lip service to democracy and rails against authoritarianism -- yet he himself is not accountable to the membership. Say one thing, do another.

The next section is under the heading "We uphold true friendship." This imparts the familiar SGI message that SGI members are your real friends, your comrades in faith whom you should trust without question. In this section, Ikeda says: "The courageous German playwright and poet Bertolt Brecht, who vociferously opposed the Nazis, called out to the people, "It's yourselves you'll be deserting / if you rat on [betray] your own sort."

Hmm. Ikeda name drops a famous poet, suggesting a kinship between the two of them, and invokes the Nazis -- emotionally loaded in any context. Then he uses Brecht's words to send a strong message about "betrayal" (interesting editorial insertion by the World Tribune of the word "betray" for "rat on," by the way.) The implication is obvious: those who leave SGI are betrayers and deserters, akin to those who betrayed their neighbors to the Nazis.

Ikeda continues: "As comrades, family, brothers and sisters, fellow human beings, we will fight all our lives for kosen-rufu. This is our mission. This is what unites us. We are a fighting force, a fighting fortress."

What is kosen-rufu exactly? The SGI defines it in different ways, usually having something to do with world peace. Kosen-rufu is a vague goal, as is "world peace," a broad generalization, yet Ikeda declares that "this is our mission." There are no objective measures of progress, no benchmarking. So members are "united" by fighting all their lives for a non-specific goal. And how many peace organizations would brazenly declare themselves a "fighting fortress," I wonder? This rhetoric speaks to the siege mentality inculcated into SGI members: we are surrounded by enemies and we are the only ones who can save the world.

But now Ikeda returns to flattery and a show of humility, saying: "Allow me to deeply commend and thank all of you for your tremendous efforts this year. Our repeated triumphs in 2003, the Year of Glory and Great Victory, have indeed been significant."

He cites no examples of what has been accomplished, but goes on to say, "We have never before received such a flood of praise and congratulations from our friends, supporters and leading figures around the world."

What accomplishments? Which leading figures around the world? Ikeda does not say, but the message is clear: whatever vague things SGI members are doing, they are glorious, significant, global and widely celebrated. This is another example of flattery, with the added boost to member self-esteem of being "special" on the world stage.

Ikeda says: "The only way we can accumulate lasting and eternal benefit is through our Buddhist practice. Striving earnestly and humbly for kosen-rufu, without airs or pretensions, is what matters."

Hear that? Without your Buddhist practice as defined by SGI, you'll never have "lasting benefit." Also, you are profoundly special...but don't get a big ego about it. Meanwhile, Ikeda names buildings after himself and ranks himself alongside Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. in the traveling SGI-sponsored Gandhi-King-Ikeda exhibit...

The exercise of critiquing one of Ikeda's speeches is exhausting...and there are three more text-crammed pages of this speech to analyze, including a section titled "To betray the SGI is to betray Nichiren Daishonin." Ikeda's long harangue is enough to make me turn off my brain and nod my head in passive agreement. Which may be the whole point...[/b]

Ikeda reportedly once said at a meeting that he didn't care if people fell asleep. People cannot close their ears, he said, and even when they are asleep his words will still penetrate their subconscious.

Yikes.
--------------------------------End of Quote----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I saw the Veoh videos of the Los Angeles Convention, 1993, I too wondered, "What's wrong with Ikeda? Has he had a stroke that damaged his brain? Is he suffering from Alzheimers'? His behavior seemed so odd, not what you'd expect of the CEO of a multinational, multibillion dollar organization.

This speech, and his actions since, suggest to me that he's not impaired. He packs quite a lot of clever, manipulative mind-influencing tricks into what, on the surface, seems like a dull, ordinary speech.

The bratty-child behavior at the 1993 convention? Like a bratty kid, he misbehaves because he can -- he knows that not one person in that packed convention hall was going to call him on it.

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: sushigrl ()
Date: December 28, 2009 07:21AM

Yah can you imagine a leader criticizing Ikeda....what havoc that would create!

I love this item on Sokacult:

"The purpose of SokaCult.com is to show that Soka is not a cult. If you have a seeking mind and open heart, please read these pages. Then you need not investigate the matter further. What some people call intelligent, informed decision-making is no more than anti-religious cynicism. Don't be like that. You must trust us." How creepy!!

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: December 28, 2009 07:32AM

@sushigirl

why is it creepy I thinj it shows the forum is on the right track actually as there are no arguments against the chriticism i.e. tax fraud, cult stucture, invading public (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) schools, ....

its time for the media to show interest

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Re: Former SGI members
Posted by: Rothaus ()
Date: December 28, 2009 07:34AM

again is there a way to archive the full sokacult website? tsuki you seem to have alot stored

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