Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
sushigrl
()
Date: December 26, 2009 06:10AM
Ikedabots!!! I love it! Soaka (up da money) Gotchakai Ikedabots!!!!
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
wayfarerfree
()
Date: December 26, 2009 06:19AM
Re. Byrd :
I truly admire her tenacity, it shows real, sincere compassion for her to continue for the sake of peoples happiness, even when she was being stabbing in the back all the time. What a truly genuine person.
I tried, in my own way to "be the change you want to see". But I just came to realise that it was a lose/lose situation - like social workers who go into the profession intent on "changing the system" from within, but eventually getting all their principles eroded by a machine without any real heart.
You cannot reason with something thats been automated. Its like trying to persuade a virus.
How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Only one, but the lightbulbs gotta want to change (sorry).
Is there any point in attempting to help other members? Even those I really thought were friends?
Im sure I would just be seen as a subversive. There wouldnt even need to be any intervention from other members trying to prevent my doing this.
The entire SGI practise is geared so that anything that criticises the "party line" is automatically shut down or attacked by the mind for being bad for your life ( or "karma")
So yes, I admire Byrd, she tried desperately to salvage the possibility, under severely adverse conditions, that SGI could operate other than how it currently does, and I respect her integrity. For me, its more than a lost cause, its a cause that I should have never, ever entertained.
My impression of ND Buddhism has been forever tarnished by SGI. I dont wish to offend anyone that still chants, though.
But if there was ever a good example of a modern day Nichiren, then Byrd is it, 100%.
Speaking of viruses, Ive got a cold now, actually.
Is that how the entire "head smashing" thing begins?
Lol! Wouldnt sound quite the same, would it :
"thou shall have to drink plenty of fluids and eat soup, making sure to take the required medication twice daily."
I truly admire her tenacity, it shows real, sincere compassion for her to continue for the sake of peoples happiness, even when she was being stabbing in the back all the time. What a truly genuine person.
I tried, in my own way to "be the change you want to see". But I just came to realise that it was a lose/lose situation - like social workers who go into the profession intent on "changing the system" from within, but eventually getting all their principles eroded by a machine without any real heart.
You cannot reason with something thats been automated. Its like trying to persuade a virus.
How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Only one, but the lightbulbs gotta want to change (sorry).
Is there any point in attempting to help other members? Even those I really thought were friends?
Im sure I would just be seen as a subversive. There wouldnt even need to be any intervention from other members trying to prevent my doing this.
The entire SGI practise is geared so that anything that criticises the "party line" is automatically shut down or attacked by the mind for being bad for your life ( or "karma")
So yes, I admire Byrd, she tried desperately to salvage the possibility, under severely adverse conditions, that SGI could operate other than how it currently does, and I respect her integrity. For me, its more than a lost cause, its a cause that I should have never, ever entertained.
My impression of ND Buddhism has been forever tarnished by SGI. I dont wish to offend anyone that still chants, though.
But if there was ever a good example of a modern day Nichiren, then Byrd is it, 100%.
Speaking of viruses, Ive got a cold now, actually.
Is that how the entire "head smashing" thing begins?
Lol! Wouldnt sound quite the same, would it :
"thou shall have to drink plenty of fluids and eat soup, making sure to take the required medication twice daily."
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
DrJesusEsq
()
Date: December 26, 2009 09:17AM
@wayfarerfree, To tell the truth, I thought SGI was a benign cult for a long time. It finally hit me how deep this thing runs in Japan. World Tribune, the 3rd largest newspaper published in Japan!? J.F. Christ! If I ever go to Japan, I'll just pretend I'm a Hindu and keep on chanting "Om Namo Shivaya" to scare them off. As for the tarnished Nichiren image, I can't blame you. I also have problems with Nichiren and am questioning what kind of character he was, if he was as crazy as SGI made him out to be. In fact, according to the SGI gosho, he seemed pretty damn arrogant (I am the shramana of Japan!).
@tsukimoto
For awhile, I wondered why they changed the format. When I got my gohonzon, it would be a silent prayer for wishes first, then NMHRK, the prayer for the deceased, NMHRK again, then the final one. One day I got an email to not chant NMHRK between the prayers for the wishes and deceased. I never listened to them. If it's not broken, don't fix it! Now I don't even pray for the 3 prezzes, I substituted it with the Dalai Lama and other Buddhist teachers I respect.
Thanks for the link to Byrd's site. This is very inspirational. It's like the Human Revolution . . .. without the ego massage and true heart.
@tsukimoto
For awhile, I wondered why they changed the format. When I got my gohonzon, it would be a silent prayer for wishes first, then NMHRK, the prayer for the deceased, NMHRK again, then the final one. One day I got an email to not chant NMHRK between the prayers for the wishes and deceased. I never listened to them. If it's not broken, don't fix it! Now I don't even pray for the 3 prezzes, I substituted it with the Dalai Lama and other Buddhist teachers I respect.
Thanks for the link to Byrd's site. This is very inspirational. It's like the Human Revolution . . .. without the ego massage and true heart.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
tsukimoto
()
Date: December 26, 2009 09:52AM
Quote
RothausQuote
Tsukimoto
You can see why SGI wanted to break with Nichiren Shoshu. And now this -- Ikeda's alive, but he's still in the prayers...and members are reminded, twice daily that they "owe him a debt of gratitude.
:-) Nichiren Shoshu broke with SGI not the other way round :-)
So SGI says. And of course, we can always believe everything that our dear Sensei says. ;-)
DO be careful of pickpockets, friends.
SGI Attainment of Kosen-rufu, Chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo Ikedabot
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 26, 2009 10:56AM
There you have it, Ikeda inserting himself inside PRAYERS to be repeated everyday.
That is mental conditioning, that is a type of SGI brainwashing, to insert your DEBT to Ikeda to his "selfless" accumulation of billions of dollars for himself, and his buying of a few hundred fake-degrees for himself. How selfless!
And like I predicted earlier in the thread, there is the ringing of the bell, just like Pavlov's dogs.
They put SGI people in a trance-state through chanting, which is a form of self-hypnosis and induction.
When you are tranced-out from chanting, then they make you insert the Suggestion that you OWE Ikeda a debt.
Then you ring the BELL, to install and condition the conditioned stimulus.
Repeat everyday for months and years, and you too can brainwash yourself to be an Ikedabot.
That is mental conditioning, that is a type of SGI brainwashing, to insert your DEBT to Ikeda to his "selfless" accumulation of billions of dollars for himself, and his buying of a few hundred fake-degrees for himself. How selfless!
And like I predicted earlier in the thread, there is the ringing of the bell, just like Pavlov's dogs.
They put SGI people in a trance-state through chanting, which is a form of self-hypnosis and induction.
When you are tranced-out from chanting, then they make you insert the Suggestion that you OWE Ikeda a debt.
Then you ring the BELL, to install and condition the conditioned stimulus.
Repeat everyday for months and years, and you too can brainwash yourself to be an Ikedabot.
Quote
tsukimoto
--------Beginning of Quote, SGI USA Website--------------------------------------------------------------------
...
THIRD SILENT PRAYER
For the Attainment of Kosen-rufu
I pray that the great desire for kosen-rufu be fulfilled, and that the Soka Gakkai International develop in this endeavor for countless generations to come.
I acknowledge my debt of gratitude and offer appreciation to the three founding presidents—Tsunesaburo Makiguchi, Josei Toda and Daisaku Ikeda—for their eternal examples of selfless dedication to the propagation of the Law.
Chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo three times.
.....
Sound the bell and chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo three times to conclude (group chants in unison).
-------------------------End of Quote----------------------------------------------------------------------------
...
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
dragon14
()
Date: December 26, 2009 12:58PM
Quote
sushigrl
Hi everybody. This forum is interesting. I joined the SGI (NSA) in 1974 when I was 15. I was indoctrinated like everyone else, and had some pretty nasty experiences along the way with activities and the leadership etc. I left about 15 years ago in 1994 having developed a mental disorder which I believe was partly due to the unreasonable expectations of SGI tenets.
If I was an active member, any problem I had was due to my karma or my imperfect "faith". Any paranoia or disillusions I had about leaders was only due to my own "dirty mirror". Honestly, I'm amazed that I didn't commit suicide at some point because the level of gossip due to trusting unscrupulous leaders with private and very painful information for "guidance" purposes was almost too much to bear. During all my years with SGI, I think I met one or two people that I could possibly trust, and even they betrayed my confidence.
In all sincerity, the manipulation and fawning over a young woman who was admittedly very vulnerable showed to me the sick side of people and the SGI. One experience which defined this was that once after a chapter meeting, the young people were encouraged to jump naked into a pool during a "pool party" by the shibucho. We of course declined, but what a thing to do given the "precious" status we had as YWD.
Many other experiences led me to distrust leaders, especially when we learned that the general director was having an affair with the then national YWD chief, and they both subsequently "disappeared".
Everyone is human yes, but that same YWD leader had given me guidance to be a "good girl" and don't do anything she wouldn't do, as I confided that I had some personal problems with a YMD.
How laughable!
Sorry for the rant, it's been pent up for a while.
Because I wouldn't follow guidance, I was "disowned" by my HQ chief, who was a japanese transplant. Consequently, I was shunned by many of my fellow members. I guess they wouldn't be following guidance either if they associated with me.
It was a rocky ride at best, being praised as a wonderful byakuren and then ostracized as the worst Byakuren because I got lost..
My most poignant memory was as a kotekitai, we were marched for HOURS in blazing hot sun with few breaks. When we arrived back at the kaikan, I collapsed with heat exhaustion. My japanese territory leader scolded me over the PA system for not being better "prepared" and asked if there were a doctor in the house. This made me feel like the lowest of the low. I also gave many hours of service as a byakuren(what would be the english term for this...andy frain maybe) going without food or water for hours at a time in horrible conditions, only to be scolded that I had not chanted enough daimoku to get me through.
I'm sure this type of abuse is not as bad nowadays, but that it even existed was so dangerous.
Sushigirl, your experience is similar to one I had when I was practiciing up in Boston. The Boston brass band went to Flushing Meadow park in Queens to hook up and prepare for yet another convention/culture festival with the rest of New York Joint Territory brass band. The head honcho was Shunzo Ono. Just like with your Kotekitai practice, Shunzo drove everyone into the ground; people were starting to keel over. I got mad, walked up to him and told him he should take a water break. He then tried to make an example of me and scold me in front of the whole brass band for being weak. I didn't care what he said - it just made me madder.
Shunzo, like Arnold Kawasaki before him, was a Gakkai dead-head. I've never heard two guys scream so much, and over stupid things. And they drove everyone into the ground. In hindsight, I'm surprised someone didn't die due to heat exhaustion and dehydration.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
dragon14
()
Date: December 26, 2009 01:14PM
Quote
tsukimoto
And the song "Higher Than the Sky," which we also sang a lot -- "Forever Sensei," "Ring the Bell," and "Higher The Sky," were the big three -- we sang at least one of them at every meeting I attended, and even after over three years out of SGI, I could still sing any of them and get most of the lyrics.
Higher Than The Sky
Together, always, we must fight.
Together, we must win.
Happy together, side by side,
sharing tears of happiness.
Shining within our hearts,
is hope for all mankind.
Tomorrow's golden dreams
[are] always higher than the sky.
Higher -- than the sky.
[repeat 3X or 5X]
I swear once we went through Higher Than the Sky about 25 times. I played trumpet in brass band, and my chops felt like they were lying on the floor. And I remember thinking, "WHAT ARE WE DOING??"
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
sushigrl
()
Date: December 27, 2009 02:00AM
Dragon14, I think the Brass Band and the YMD had it harder than we did. It's ironic that Ikeda says "don't be careless", and then has dumba**** lead the youth in such a way as to endanger their lives. It happened countless times. Over and over, and because they could blame the individual for having "bad karma" to experience "accidents", the Gakkai thugs could get away with it. It makes me angry just thinking about it.
It happened to me more than once. Once as a Byakuren at Sea World, I was outside in the blazing hot sun just standing there for at least 8-9 hours before being given a break; no water or food. A park employee asked me if I was ok, and wanted to take me to an indoor rest station because I was becoming disoriented. I said no that I had a "mission". She thought I was nuts. A similar scenario happened to me in Japan. Both times, the leaders blamed my faith, not their insane practice schedule. Also in Japan, I had to buy water for my whole section; nothing was provided for us for a 6 hour practice. NOTHING.
Oh, the horrors. The hours and hours and horrors.
It happened to me more than once. Once as a Byakuren at Sea World, I was outside in the blazing hot sun just standing there for at least 8-9 hours before being given a break; no water or food. A park employee asked me if I was ok, and wanted to take me to an indoor rest station because I was becoming disoriented. I said no that I had a "mission". She thought I was nuts. A similar scenario happened to me in Japan. Both times, the leaders blamed my faith, not their insane practice schedule. Also in Japan, I had to buy water for my whole section; nothing was provided for us for a 6 hour practice. NOTHING.
Oh, the horrors. The hours and hours and horrors.
Predators on campus: cults in New Jersey, SGI Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 27, 2009 03:29AM
There is an article that lists SGI as one of the cults on Campus.
Predators on campus: An inside look at cults in New Jersey
[www.newjerseynewsroom.com]
There are some standard cultists attacks in the comments, and some SGI members also chimed in.
There is some direct lies in what the SGI members wrote like...
QUOTE "Members of the Soka Gakkai are not pressured to contribute financially".
That is another lie by the SGI. SGI members are constantly guilted, persuaded, manipulated, pressured, lied to, to give SGI money, even ALL their money, as has been proven in this thread many times.
Its interesting how the SGI internet progagandists never even try to post those lies in this thread, as they know if they did, the FACTS would become even more obvious to the public.
SGI is a cult, and for vulnerable people who get lured all the way into SGI, SGI is a very destructive cult, that can take over a person's entire life, and ruin their life.
There are some good rebuttals too in the comments from former SGI members.
Predators on campus: An inside look at cults in New Jersey
[www.newjerseynewsroom.com]
There are some standard cultists attacks in the comments, and some SGI members also chimed in.
There is some direct lies in what the SGI members wrote like...
QUOTE "Members of the Soka Gakkai are not pressured to contribute financially".
That is another lie by the SGI. SGI members are constantly guilted, persuaded, manipulated, pressured, lied to, to give SGI money, even ALL their money, as has been proven in this thread many times.
Its interesting how the SGI internet progagandists never even try to post those lies in this thread, as they know if they did, the FACTS would become even more obvious to the public.
SGI is a cult, and for vulnerable people who get lured all the way into SGI, SGI is a very destructive cult, that can take over a person's entire life, and ruin their life.
There are some good rebuttals too in the comments from former SGI members.
Re: Predators on campus: cults in New Jersey, SGI Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: December 27, 2009 04:02AM
This has been covered before, but perhaps if some folks could click through all of the different pages of the archive of the website Sokacult.com there might be some missed information in there?
Sokacult.com
[web.archive.org]
Sokacult.com
[web.archive.org]
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