I don't know why the forum hasn't notified me of new posts this past week! Been super busy with work (which is great in these troubled economic times WITHOUT chanting :) I've been missing tons of great responses.

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Yzak
And like you mentioned Awaken7, when people come to you saying that their philosophy is the ultimate experience you will have, it is because something not quite right is happening. The last time I had to do Gajokai, there was a technical issue, but it was rather no big deal, the meeting continued smoothly. Well, after the meeting was ended, the leader of the Gajokai was so furious(I mean, someone could not see his head getting red, but the way hi showed his discomfort with the issue troubled me a bit), he was like THE MEETING WAS SPECTACULAR, BUT BECAUSE X HAPPENED THE WHOLE MEETING WAS A CRAP! I wasn't even close to where the problem happened! After that, this gajokai leader took me a ride(one of the so nice rides....) back home. In that trip he was kind of insulting me, with nice words but insulting, that I wasn't chanting good enough, that we have to work hard for Pres. Ikeda, I feel you are not doing enough for yourself, i feel you are not happy enough,YOU WANT TO BECOME HAPPY? YOU HAVE TO CHANT EVEN MORE! (that was the alert that hit my mind telling me something is wrong here) and he forced me to PROMISE ME YOU WILL CHANT MORE AND HARDER!....
I never saw that guy even with a smile, always prepearing things that the next meeting and the meeting after that were coming. He is younger than me and he is devastated with debt, and here he come and giving orders to me to become happier.
Thats crazy, but thankfully I realized this sooner than later! otherwise where I might be >_>!

Oh man, Yzak, you mention Gajokai and that strikes a personal chord in me because I did it for years. First of all, I'm glad you found this group and it has helped you! Your story just shows how out of touch a lot of these young guys in SGI-USA are. These aren’t the old NSA days where some Gajokai chiefs thought it was the military or something and ordered their Gajokai assistants around. Those guys talked just like your guy, and yet they were in debt and had huge personal problems. That's back in the 80s and 90s. Now, those guys are in Men's Division and their lives are no different than people who don't chant. Probably not too shabby but not so great. They used to say you'll get sooo much fortune doing Gajokai and Soka groups, and you'll be great successes in society. But those guys are just middle-aged average people now. So, what's the use of putting so many hours into chanting? In fact, the successful people I see in LA are 99.9% don’t chant.

This kind of uptightness, holier-than-thou attitude was all pervasive within SGI volunteers. They think that going to the community center and volunteer for a couple of hours per month is such a serious and important activity, that you can't be yourself while you’re there, it's such a joke. I'll give an example. Last year, at LA Friendship Center, I was still volunteering once a month on a Tuesday night to help out. As a Men's Division (MD), I would show up and sit in the lobby room to support the two Gajokai young men who do most of the work and provide security. A byakuren (young woman's division) also sits there to operate the switchboard and answer calls. There's really not much to do for the MD, it's just really a courtesy to help out the youth, pretty boring actually just sitting there and chit-chatting with the girl and the guys when they’re in the room. The last time I did it, I was chatting with a particular byakuren I had never met for about an hour, just shooting the breeze, talking about our lives, work, etc. She was about 25. I told her that night was my last planned shift as I was becoming real busy with work. I didn't tell her that I was having serious doubts about SGI at the time and just wanted to back off. She seemed cool. Then, my buddy Tom called on my cell and, of course, the conversation turned to women, our usual topic :), and I talked about dating this girl, that girl, or whoever I was trying to chase at the time at salsa clubs since I'm a dancer and was really in that scene. Just guys' stuff. Well, when I hung up the phone, the byakuren girl started acting weird, and told me I'm not supposed to be talking on the phone, because my "duty" was to be on the alert, in case something happens. I was like, "What the heck are you talking about?" So, she gave me this mini-lecture about how the volunteers on shifts are supposed to put aside our personal business and be ready at any moment's notice to answer the members’ concerns and to attend to their needs. I said, "Well, a few people have been coming up to ask what room is so and so meeting is in, or whatever, and you and I have been helping them, what's the big deal? Besides there are two gajokais here." I also pointed out that she and I had been talking about personal stuff anyway before I was on the phone, now was that off-limit, too? Needless to say, she didn't like my answer and said that I didn't have faith. I kind of got pissed, and went off on her about how serious and uptight she was, why doesn't she act like a regular young woman then, instead of enacting this serious, robotic role. Needless to say, she got upset and resentful at me. I just said “Fine, whatever,” and waited till the end of my shift and didn’t even say goodbye. I was so glad to be out of there. At the risk of being presumptuous, I think the truth was that she was just pissed that I was talking the “playa” stuff with my buddy and maybe that brought up insecurities within herself. She needed a boyfriend was what I gathered about her.

When the members used to come up to ask questions of us volunteers, I remember a lot of them acted like babies. They have this instant-gratification kind of mentality when it comes to SGI. They live in a neighborhood and want to find a meeting near their house. Instead of doing their own research, they call the volunteers and expect us to do all their work for them. Even when told that the nearest meeting is 20 minutes away in another neighborhood, they whine. Instead of telling them, “Well, I’m sorry but there’s nothing we can do about it right now,” the volunteers are taught to try “do the impossible” and call leaders or whatever to help the members find a meeting right in their neighborhood so that they don’t have to drive the 20 minutes. In fact, you’re encouraged to chant with this whining member and create such a meeting. I always shook my head and wondered how these people survived in the the real world when, let’s say, a local store tells them “No, I don’t have such and such product, we have to order it.” Start whining? I don’t think so. But they think the rules are different in the organization. I hated babying them.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2009 01:14AM by Mav.

The ‘friend’ who invited me to the only 2 SGI meets I attended NEVER called me back (maybe she got the message after I returned 2 booklets from SGI to her through my daughter). But yesterday I got a call from the woman who hosts meetings at her house inviting me to come over for Chanting.
I told her that I love Christianity and I wasn’t going to change my beliefs; but she told me that I didn’t have to quit my faith. Now I know she is lying after everything you have posted here.
I told her that I didn’t think SGI was the only truth; and she said that their chanting was the only that works fast, that I should give it a try for 90 days and see the results, but now I know that people from SGI aren’t particularly successful.
Then I told her that I searched the Internet and found out that I had to recruit more members; and she told me that it was because their chanting was so great that they wanted to share it with others. I told her they shouldn’t push it on others and she wasn’t going to push it on me!
She finally stopped insisting. But I felt the big manipulation that SGI uses to bring new members. I can imagine how much worse it must be once you are a member!
I didn’t want to get on a big fight with her, and that’s why I never told her the whole truth about what ex-members say about SGI. But if she had insisted more about me joining SGI, I could have told her.
I want to thank all of you again because this time she wasn’t able to convince me and manipulate me to get involved with SGI. I knew there was no way I was going to buy into it. And I did it with confidence after all things you have taught me. It’s not nice that you had all of those experiences, but now you are doing something great posting this and letting us know the truth! I hope more people would do their research before joining cults like this.
I WILL FOREVER BE THANKFUL TO ALL OF YOU!!!!!

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Awaken7
The ‘friend’ who invited me to the only 2 SGI meets I attended NEVER called me back
I want to thank all of you again because this time she wasn’t able to convince me and manipulate me to get involved with SGI. I knew there was no way I was going to buy into it. And I did it with confidence after all things you have taught me. It’s not nice that you had all of those experiences, but now you are doing something great posting this and letting us know the truth! I hope more people would do their research before joining cults like this.
I WILL FOREVER BE THANKFUL TO ALL OF YOU!!!!!

First, these so call "friends" seemed to have erased me from their SGI world, and I think is great! its been 2 weeks after I officially quit SGI and I feel more human, or should I say more alive, being myself and allow myself explore more. It was sad to think leaving SGI at first, but I had to make an effort, to realize that the "kosen rufu" cause is just a self interest profitable scheme from SGI. And it is sad to know that 12 million PEOPLE actually believe they are doing something good for world peace when is not. It just had to happen, these "friends" weren't really friends, we were just comrades in SGI, but in the outside world, or REALITY we were no one. Just like a member said before, I don't remember who sorry >_> but "WE DIDN'T REALLY MEET AS FRIENDS, THEY ALWAYS CALLED ME FOR MEETINGS, NEVER FOR, YOU KNOW, JUST TO HANG OUT AND HAVE A COFFEE. WELL YOU MIGHT SAY WHY I DIDN'T DO THAT TO SHARE WITH THEM, BUT I WAS AFRAID TO HANG OUT WITH THEM TOO, FOR THEY MAY KEEP TALKING ABOUT SGI INSTEAD OF OURSELF, OUR LIVES OR SOMETHING ELSE" totally agree! (Its not exactly what the user said, but sort of). I also was afraid of trying to socialize with SGIers outside SGI, but it seemed impossible to me.
One experience I had was with a SGI graduate student from a UC, that I wanted to chat with him about how universities work here in the US and all of that. He invited me to Starbucks to talk, OK thats fine. When I was talking about my academic interest, and that I was(and still am) very motivated to do something great with my life but don't know actually what is it, Guess what? he's only advice was to read Pres. Ikedas guidance, in his newspaper and try to apply it, and CHANT MORE! YOU WANT TO FIND THE ANSWER TO THAT? CHANT EVEN MORE!!
Finally I dared to ask this SGI member nicely
"WELL YOU KNOW, LIKE IT OR NOT, PRES. IKEDA IS KIND OF OLD, AND HE MIGHT DIE SOONER OR LATER, SO..." and even before finishing the question he went:
"THATS WHY WE HAVE TO STUDY IKEDAS LECTURE, WE HAVE TO APPRECIATE THAT WE HAVE A MENTOR THAT IS ALIVE, THATS WHY WE HAVE TO STUDY AND UNDERSTAND HIS GUIDANCE AS MUCH AS WE CAN, FOR THE MOMENT HE MAY DIE, WE WILL FEEL SORRY ABOUT IT."
At the time I felt very encouraged by his words, but now I feel that the conversation we had at the time lead me to nothing, totally pointless, didn't conclude anything new but with the same idea of to love Ikeda and chant more.It is sad to know such smart people being naive, with such great skills being wasted for the well being of a corporation. This proves that "intellectual smartness is not everything in life", but society somehow makes us think that it is.
My guess is that when Ikeda dies, things will get waaaaay nastier! I want to see that ceremony, and hopefully that might bring some doubts among SGI, but maybe I'm expecting too much. I don't meant to see this man dead, but as seeing it outside SGI its kind of predictable. Now that I'm writing this, I feel, like many members here in the forum have told, a gap of nothingness during my 2 year period in SGI. While my primal purpose of joining SGI was to simply have friends and share a same philosophy, I was being carried away from my purpase. While I think if I weren't in SGI for that period of time I wouldn't learn these things, at least I learned something good out of this, a unique experience. I don't regret leaving SGI and loosing so many "friends", when I know the only person I was lying or "betraying" the whole time was myself.
This is my personal advice; if you are interested in any culture, say as an example, in Japan, and you want to learn something about the culture and society, DO things from that country that won't limit of being yourself, for example, PRACTICE ANY MARTIAL ARTS, LEARN HOW TO COOK SHUSHI OR RAMEN, LEARN IKEBANA, LEARN A JAPANESE INSTRUMENT, TO READ JAPANESE CLASSICAL LITERATURE OR TO SIMPLY STUDY ITS HISTORY,whatever, but NEVER EVER, ALLOW YOURSELF JOINING SECTS, in this particular case, Soka Gakkai!

Yzak:
Thank you so much for your response.
The reason I agreed to go with my "friend" to the Buddhist meet was because I had heard very good things about their practices of meditation and mantras. I even saw a video on the Internet from another Buddhist church that was excellent!
But SGI was certainly a big disappointment!

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Awaken7
Yzak:
Thank you so much for your response.
The reason I agreed to go with my "friend" to the Buddhist meet was because I had heard very good things about their practices of meditation and mantras. I even saw a video on the Internet from another Buddhist church that was excellent!
But SGI was certainly a big disappointment!

sure it is. The person who did shakabuku to me, was, i believe, the only one who truly understood Nichiren's lessons and have been able to put it into his own life. I was like "WHOW! People who practice seem to have something good", but that was the mistake, to assume that all SGIers will interpreatate and manifest this Buddhism the same way he did it. Unfourtunately, it didn't happen that way. And great business men like Toda and Ikeda really knew how to make real profit out of this.

So yes, I'm also grateful to find this forum, just to make me feel that I'm the only one "betraying" SGI or the only one who thinks SGI methods are a little creepy. Its quite disappointing to know that members itself hire other members to look for webpages that just want to express their disconfort, I'm pretty sure the excuse will probably be the same, "YOU WILL BE DOING GOOD CAUSES FOR SGI" ....... once again to congratulate the people who were more than 10 years in SGI and realized the truth, I can't imagine myself being consume for more than 10 years, so you really are someone to be proud of =)

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Yzak
One experience I had was with a SGI graduate student from a UC, that I wanted to chat with him about how universities work here in the US and all of that. He invited me to Starbucks to talk, OK thats fine. When I was talking about my academic interest, and that I was(and still am) very motivated to do something great with my life but don't know actually what is it, Guess what? he's only advice was to read Pres. Ikedas guidance, in his newspaper and try to apply it, and CHANT MORE! YOU WANT TO FIND THE ANSWER TO THAT? CHANT EVEN MORE!!

At the time I felt very encouraged by his words, but now I feel that the conversation we had at the time lead me to nothing, totally pointless, didn't conclude anything new but with the same idea of to love Ikeda and chant more.

This is why I've found it impossible to have real friendship with SGI members. The conversation ALWAYS turns into "Chant more and study President Ikeda's guidance."

I have friends who practice other religions. We talk about faith sometimes, but they're able to discuss other things too. We can talk about school or careers -- WITHOUT them saying things like, "You should recite the rosary for an hour a day," or "My rabbi has written some books -- you should read them and take him as your mentor."

SGI members just seem programmed to say the same things over and over -- chant more, go to SGI activities, follow President Ikeda's guidance. Once you get out of SGI and spend more time around non-members, it just seems so obvious...and unhealthy.

When I was a little girl, I had a "Chatty Cathy" doll. You pulled a string and the doll would "say" one of the few phrases that had been programmed into her. "Hello!" or "I love you." or "Wanna play?" or "Will you be my friend?"

A toymaker could make an "SGI Chatty Cathy." Pull the string and the doll will say, "Hello! Wanna come to an SGI meeting?" or "Let's chant more daimoku!" or "I love President Ikeda!"

Hello everyone!
I was so lucky to find this forum, may be some of you would be so kind and give me pieces of advice on the matter.
To make the story shorter, my bf is a SGI member since his birth (he was introduced to the cult by his parents). I knew he’s a member of SGI and, what’s more, I knew some dirty facts about SGI and Komeito. I personally think religion that has direct connections with politics is not a ‘true’ religion and this was my first objection to SGI. Then i got to know SGI members frequently visit his house if he doesn’t attend meetings and he regards that as ‘they kindly worry about me’. Once we had a big argument on SGI matter and he was deeply hurt and said he wished I’d have had a wider outlook.
I decided to let him happy as he wants to be. I never said anything on his meetings at SGI in the evenings or his everyday quite loud chanting. I was eager to be a ‘wise woman’ and not to intervent in his religious life knowing how important this is for him.
I feel things are going to change as I have to find a way to get him out of it. I don’t know if he makes donations to local SGI or not, but he does the work for the community, especially before the elections. To make matters worse, he is ready to go to another city which is quite far to ‘give support’ and leave me alone in this country (I am visiting him now).
I don’t get why SGI members share details of their personal lives with the leader. What does it have to do with the religion? Why do they consult him on personal issues? I didn’t find that leader wise enough even to arrange his OWN life, he was just a person in charge of organizing local meetings.
SGI ideology seems so inoffensively simple. ‘we work and pray for all people to become happy’, ‘if everybody is of the same religion, there’ll be no wars’, ‘if SGI is so bad, why so many followers’.
Of course, there is nothing bad in working for something what you believe. However, my heart is saying this is merely brainwashing, there are people behind of the religious side.
What I do understand clearly, nobody can FORCE him to leave. I am lost ………
I don’t even know how to start, how to prepare him for realizing life is more complicated than SGi suggests. I think I should sow grains of doubt in his mind, but how ?
P.S. Of course, the problem can’t be solved by ultimatum ‘if you love me, leave the cult’.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

These links may be somewhat helpful.

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Deltide
Hello everyone!
Of course, there is nothing bad in working for something what you believe. However, my heart is saying this is merely brainwashing, there are people behind of the religious side.
What I do understand clearly, nobody can FORCE him to leave. I am lost ………
I don’t even know how to start, how to prepare him for realizing life is more complicated than SGi suggests. I think I should sow grains of doubt in his mind, but how ?
P.S. Of course, the problem can’t be solved by ultimatum ‘if you love me, leave the cult’.

Welcome Deltide. I was never a member of SGI, but my ex-b/f was/still is. I was in a similar predictament as yourself. If you go back a few pages, I posted about my problem. My b/f wasn't a lifelong member. He just joined back in January. However, he was pulled in very fast. By April, he was no longer himself. When I contested SGI, he would say that I was closed-minded and negative. I never gave him an ultimatum, because he recognized it himself. He knew that it was either SGI or me. Sadly, he decided that SGI was what he wanted in his life. He loved me, but he couldn't be with me anymore, because our "personalities" were too different. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but the chances are slim to none that you will be able to get him to leave the cult. All of my b/f's friends and family were against the cult, but it still didn't stop him. Your b/f's family is all part of SGI, so he would probably leave you, before he left SGI. That's the unfortunate truth. If you give him the ultimatum, he will go seek advice from senior members, who will tell him to chant for your happiness and advise him to let you go. That's what happened in my case. The senior member told my b/f that I wasn't right for him and he should just chant for my happiness. We broke up in May, because I couldn't take it anymore. SGI is the only important thing in their lives. You don't want to be in a relationship with someone like that. Even if you accept him being in the cult, would you want your children to be raised in the same environment? I wouldn't think so. It may be extremely painful, but there's not much you can do. He has to realize it on his own and sadly from reading the posts on here, sometimes that doesn't happen for years, or at all. I've been where you are and I know how painful it is. Feel free to msg me, if you need someone to talk to.

This is part of what makes SGI a type of cult.
The members have been programmed over and over using repetition, to focus on SGI-chanting as some type of Miracle Cure for everything, and to focus on Ikeda's personality, and to try and COVERT others. All of that is even written into their new code of conduct above.

They indoctrinate people to think that converting others to SGI is "good karma" for them. So it turns others into objects, in essence. If they can covert others to SGI, they think on some level their own life is going to get better.

But all of that is programmed into the SGI members, over and over, constantly. And that is planned out specifically from the top, from Ikeda.
Some of them are very old-school group indoctrination techniques.

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tsukimoto
This is why I've found it impossible to have real friendship with SGI members. The conversation ALWAYS turns into "Chant more and study President Ikeda's guidance."

I have friends who practice other religions. We talk about faith sometimes, but they're able to discuss other things too. We can talk about school or careers -- WITHOUT them saying things like, "You should recite the rosary for an hour a day," or "My rabbi has written some books -- you should read them and take him as your mentor."

SGI members just seem programmed to say the same things over and over -- chant more, go to SGI activities, follow President Ikeda's guidance. Once you get out of SGI and spend more time around non-members, it just seems so obvious...and unhealthy.

When I was a little girl, I had a "Chatty Cathy" doll. You pulled a string and the doll would "say" one of the few phrases that had been programmed into her. "Hello!" or "I love you." or "Wanna play?" or "Will you be my friend?"

A toymaker could make an "SGI Chatty Cathy." Pull the string and the doll will say, "Hello! Wanna come to an SGI meeting?" or "Let's chant more daimoku!" or "I love President Ikeda!"