You are right Anticult, by chant, meditate, pray "constantly," I just meant 10 or 20 minutes a day, but every day.
It seems like the orders from SGI to chant harder and longer as Yzak says are very common.
I was thinking as Anticult says, to make my own Gohonzon with drawings of the things that mean a lot to me!
The fact that SGI owns the Gohonzon is a way to control its members and make them feel they have a bondage with SGI they can't break.

SGI broke up my relationship. My boyfriend and I officially broke up on May 15th. We've been dating for 3.5 years and we've lived together for 2 of those years. We are currently living in different cities two hours apart, so we’ve been LD for around a year now. We were planning to get married after I finished law school. After we went LD, we use to talk everyday on the telephone and we would visit each other as much as we could. However, things started going wrong back in February, when he joined SGI. My boyfriend was very upset with the condition of his life. His parents just divorced recently. He barely graduated from University and he has a crappy job. He’s been very unhappy with himself lately and he wants to improve himself and become better.

He was introduced to a woman from SGI by a family friend. This woman claimed to be a healer and a psychic of some sorts. She claimed that she had a family history of being “gifted” and that she could sense things and do readings. Upon meeting my ex, she impressed him by telling him what was wrong with his life. I think that she is really good at doing cold readings, and plus he was looking for something to believe in, so he was probably interpreting what she was saying to find truth in it. She didn’t bring up SGI right away. After a few meetings with her for “spiritual healing”, she started telling my ex that he had bad karma and the only way to change it is to chant “namyo horenge kyo”. After telling him to chant for a while, she started taking him to SGI meetings and showing him books by Ikeda. Eventually he joined SGI and got a gohonzo. Since he joined SGI, he had been spending all his time with SGI and neglecting our relationship. SGI was not good for him. He was neglecting his family and friends and he had changed drastically. He became more irritable, selfish and moody. He treated everyone so terribly after SGI, that his family and friends don’t want to have anything to do with him anymore.

He went straight to his “mentor’s” house every day after work. He spent all his time chanting in her house and going to the meetings. The woman that brought him into the SGI is teaching him that if he chants, anything and everything he wants will come to him. Obviously, to any logical person, you know that won't happen. However, my ex is so out of it that he believes everything she says. He believes she can "sense things" and "see the future". She keeps poisoning his mind. She tells him to stay away from his friends, because they are negative people and they will bring him down. She has told my ex that if her husband left her and her kids all died and she was broke and had nowhere to live, she would still be happy, because she has SGI. She’s nuts, but my ex thinks she’s amazing. He has been calling her his “second mother”. He even bought her the same Mother’s Day gift as he bought his own mother.

This woman was the one that ruined our relationship. She kept telling him that I was not right for him and she kept monopolizing all his time. If anyone has studied human psychology, you know that if you chant for hours on end, the critical thinking part of your brain shuts off and you’ll listen or believe anything anyone tells you afterwards. When I mentioned that he was spending too much time with her, he said he needed to spend time doing self-development. According to him, this woman helped him grow spiritually, so it was self-development. After joining SGI, his attitute and goals in life changed drastically. He said that he wanted to spend all of his free time with SGI, becoming a leader and holding meetings. He wanted to raise our children with in SGI and literally be immersed in it as much as possible. This disturbed me so much and I tried talking to him, but he wouldn’t listen to anything I say. If I said anything negative about his mentor or SGI, he would get extremely angry with me.

My ex wanted out of our relationship, because his mentor told him that I had bad family karma and that if he stayed with me, it would affect him and drag him down. My ex tried to make me join SGI with him, but I refused. I did attend a couple of meetings, but I was very reserved at the meeting, which didn’t go well with the senior members, so they told him I was being rude, which put a further rift between us. I told him that I didn’t mind chanting with him and I did. I woke up at 6 am every morning to chant with him on the phone. We did gongyo together every morning, until his “mentor” caught wind of it. I don’t know what she told him, but he decided to stop chanting with me. I think part of the reason is he kept staying out really late at his mentor’s house and couldn’t wake up in the morning anymore.

The last few months of our relationship, he stopped being there for me. I would call him and he would always be busy. Then, something terrible happened and I called him for support. I called him all night, but he didn’t respond. It turns out he was at that woman’s house chanting and didn’t bother to return my calls. So, I couldn’t stand it anymore and I asked him to come see me, so we could end it.

I haven’t talked to him in two months. However, I found out that he had to do a presentation at one of the SGI meetings he had. He had to write a seven minute speech about his experience with SGI. Basically, he wrote about how SGI helped him realize that he and I weren’t meant for each other. He describes that SGI made every part of his life better, except for his relationship. He was very troubled by this, so he consulted the senior memebers, which told him to chant for my happiness. He mentions that he tried to get me to join SGI, but I was deadset against it, so in the end through chanting, he realized that there were too many “personality” conflicts between us that he no longer wanted the relationship. It was obvious to me from his speech that he was bending the truth to fit his “inspirational story” and that he didn’t break up with me, because of personality conflicts. He broke up with me, because I refused to join SGI and I was telling him it was not going to help him. He called me unspiritual, cynical and negative.

A friend of his talked to me recently and I found out that he lost his job recently. This was due to SGI. A week after we broke up, he went to a SGI retreat. He took time off work to go and called in sick after his vacation, which really pissed off his managers. On top of that, he kept staying at his mentor’s house very late at night and waking up early the next day for work. He would be sleep deprived at work and he would make a lot of mistakes, so he was fired. I had hoped that this would make him realize that SGI isn’t good for him, but I only fear that this would make him immerse himself deeper into SGI. My ex had always wanted a guru to guide him in life and that is definitely what SGI is providing him. I came here to look for similar stories and I have to say I am extremely saddened by what I found. It looks like he could easily waste a good twenty-thirty years with SGI, or even the rest of his life. It drives me nuts that there are organizations like SGI out there that prey on innocent people. I loved my boyfriend so much and he loved me more than anything else in the world, but SGI convinced him that only SGI could bring him true happiness, so he had to remove me from his life. I don’t think he needs SGI right now. He needs a therapist to work out all of his issues. His life has gotten so much worse since joining SGI, but I don’t know why he doesn’t realize it. He lost his family. He lost his girlfriend. He lost his job. He’s broke and has no money. What needs to happen before he will leave SGI?

If there is anyone reading this thread who doesn't know what a Gohonzon is -- it's a scroll with Chinese and Sanskrit characters. Nichiren Buddhists look at the Gohonzon when they chant. The Gohonzon is usually kept in a Butsudan, a container. Mine is a small wooden box with doors that I can open when I chant, though Butsudans can also be large and elaborate. You usually put the Butsudan on an altar.) Some members also get small Gohonzons in a case that they can take with them when they travel.

I received my Gohonzon when I joined this sect of Buddhism. I did pay a small fee for it. I was told that this was not buying a Gohonzon, but just reimbursing the temple for the cost of the materials and shipping it. It's expected that you will return the Gohonzon to SGI or your temple if you quit practicing -- or that your family will return the Gohonzon after your death. Also, if a couple marries, and they both have Gohonzons -- the woman is expected to return her Gohonzon to the Soka Gakkai or her temple. As a wife, she'll chant to her husband's Gohonzon.

We are told that you return the Gohonzon so it can be disposed of properly, rather than just tossed in a trash can or hung on the wall as a decoration. It's the same principle, I suppose, as burning an old, worn-out American flag rather than using it as a cleaning rag. As an SGI member, I was taught that if you damaged your Gohonzon, whether accidentally or deliberately, you were creating bad karma for yourself.

I read a sad story on another website about a troubled young man, an SGI member. While he was cleaning his altar, his Gohonzon fell into the pail of water and was badly damaged. His leaders berated him harshly, and told him that would have terrible karma. This was a push over the edge for the poor guy, literally. He committed suicide.

What does my Gohonzon mean to me? Well, I remember the phrase from Nichiren's writing, "Never seek this Gohonzon outside of yourself." In my opinion, I look at the paper Gohonzon to remind myself that I, as a human, have the potential for enlightenment. I chant without the Gohonzon when I travel. I can chant looking at a plant or a wall, but I find that I focus better when I look at the Gohonzon. I DON'T believe that anything bad would happen to me if my Gohonzon should become damaged. I'm sad, though not really surprised, that the young man's leaders valued a piece of paper more than they valued him.

The SGI leaders I've known seem very bothered by any other religious symbols. Shortly after I joined SGI, two women's division leaders visited me, and were horrified that I had a statue of the Virgin Mary on a bookshelf. I told them that I wasn't praying to the statue; I had just been given it as a child by a family friend who had been very kind to me. When I look at the statue, I think of this woman, who was like an aunt to me, not Mary. I mean, really! My father forced me to go to Mass for the first eighteen years of my life. If THAT didn't turn me Catholic, a little statue certainly wouldn't. The leaders still insisted that I throw it in the trash! (I just put it in the closet when they came over.)

SGI members were also told not to keep statues of Buddha, or Kwan Yin (Kannon). Now that I am out, I have three Buddha statues, as well as a statue of the Hindu goddess Sarasvati and a fertility god. They share the shelf with Mary. (She's probably horrified.) To me, they're beautiful pieces of art, not objects of worship.

Anticult's point, that a Gohonzon CAN trigger associations with SGI, is certainly something that people who leave SGI need to consider. For several months after I left SGI, I couldn't chant or open my Butsudan because it made me think of SGI -- and feel anger and loss. I can chant now and feel peace, rather than the anger and grief. I feel that my Gohonzon and my chanting belong to me, rather than SGI. How to explain this? Maybe it's like having had a reading teacher who was nasty and manipulative. Does that mean you have to give up reading? The skill of reading doesn't belong to that teacher. In the end, you're not reading for that teacher, you are reading for yourself.

I realize that everyone's situation is different. For some ex-SGI members, returning the Gohonzon may feel very freeing and empowering.

If you are an independent member, not affiliated with a Nichiren sect, it is possible to purchase a Gohonzon, or download and print your own. This site gives more information on that:

nichirenscoffeehouse.net/Gohonzon/HowTo.html

tsukimoto, the posting of the young man who committed suicide are bringing back memories of the pressures that I an others endured for the sake of happiness, while being in the SGI. I remember when I first started practicing a young woman who is now an area leader, who lives around the corner from me had a big hole in her wall above her alter. One of the young women who was visiting her asked her how she got it. She stated that, "a member got angry and ripped the picture from her wall because he had told her on more than one occasion that she must not put anything above her Gohonzan. She also stated that this person was her friend and was looking out for her best interest. I could not believe that. While there were certainly things that I put up with within the organization. Another incident with this young lady happened when she decided to have a toso at her house. For those of you that don't know, a toso is when daimoku (chanting) last for an hour or more. To me she went overboard by chanting for 6 hours straight. After her 4th hour, she looked up to that same person who ripped the picture from her wall and his girlfriend and said, "I've done 4 hours, I am doing a good job, aren't I". Looking on the outside, none of this has changed her life significantly. She's still the same looking for approval. As a member for three years, I never did anything that I felt would take me out of my comfort zone. Yes there were times that I was pressured, but my heart was not in it 100%. I really wanted it to be because I believed in the promise of enlightenment, but every time I thought that things would be different, my leaders disappointed me and left me with a lot of doubt. It was like being on a roller coaster. One minute I hear of an experience that someone had and I would vow to put 110% of my heart and soul in the SGI. But then after being brought down to earth I would always realize that that was not going to be the case. I still loved to chant though because I felt that it was a beautiful thing. Since leaving I haven't chanted but maybe tomorrow for 30 minutes I will.

Hi, everyone. Obsidan, I'm one of those people that has spent many years in SGI. My experience was not as negative as what you describe with your ex-boyfriend, but over the years there were troubling things that I experienced. It also seems to me that the organization of SGI has changed quite a bit (for the worse) in the last few years. I wonder how many old-time members are going along with everything but are troubled inside? When I first joined, I liked the things that SGI stood for. I wanted my life to get better, and it did! Everything in my life seemed to be going in the right direction. I liked the idea of world peace through individual happiness. I was able to tolerate a lot of bullshit from NSA/SGI because of the things I liked. I also had a lot of fun doing NSA activities. I met my husband, who was also a member, and we have two great children and a long-term marriage. But for the past few years, the emphasis on the "Temple Issue" and the "mentor-disciple" has become too much for me! Now, when I look back on some of the weird things that happened, I wonder why I didn't come to my senses sooner! I appreciate reading everything that has been contributed in this forum, it really makes me think!

I mentioned in a previous post that my husband was "fired" from being a chapter leader a few months ago. In our area, other leaders also were fired at the same time. For those of you that haven't been around SGI recently, SGI came out with a "Code of Conduct" that leaders are supposed to adhere to. It was a list of rules for leaders to follow. Every leader was supposed to sign it. The rules were about leaders not taking money from members, not taking sexual advantage, etc. Everything seemed ok, except one of the rules. It was that leaders were supposed to respect others' opinions, especially men respecting the opinions of women. Some people didn't like that (isn't everyone supposed to be equal in SGI?) Anyways, some of the leaders in our area leaders refused to sign it, so they were fired. This included our area leader, a chapter leader, and 2 district leaders. My husband signed it, but got fired anyways (for political reasons, and he was beginning to have too many questions about SGI!). Our area really cleaned house! These people that were fired did not know what to do or where to practice. So they started to have "neighborhood" meetings. They get together once a week. At these meetings, they chant, do gongyo, and study. Sometimes they study a gosho. Sometimes they study writings of shakimuni. Other times they study writings of others, such as Emerson. I have been to some of these meetings (sometimes they are at my house), and they are great. Becasue they are not led by a leader of SGI, everyone participates, and they are very lively. What is discussed is very interesting--not just SGI's dogma! The meetings are open to everyone. Even a couple of current leaders of SGI have attended--they wanted to see what was going on! The feeling in SGI is not very positive. A member (and old friend) called up by husband recently and reported that she was told by a leader NOT to call my husband or talk to him! I don't know what is going to become of these meetings, but for now they are helping the members to experience some comradery and to continue to chant consistently.

Quote
obsidian
...If anyone has studied human psychology, you know that if you chant for hours on end, the critical thinking part of your brain shuts off and you’ll listen or believe anything anyone tells you afterwards...

It would interesting to try and find some references about increased suggestibility in people after chanting. It does make sense.
For example in "hypnosis", one goes into a state of focussed attention directed inward, and then Suggestions are more powerful and effective.

So it would make sense that chanting creates the same type of inward-focussed attention, and then the SGI suggestions and beliefs would take hold more effectively.
After group chanting, are there then readings from SGI literature, or videos, etc?



Also, just on a technical point.
If someone even paid $1 for a Gohonzon, then they would legally own it.
It really is quite clear that SGI uses the Gohonzon as yet another way to try and make people stay in SGI.
The fact they are actively promoting such superstitions that if it gets damaged, your Karma goes bad, tells a lot. Frankly, that is very abusive to manipulate superstitious people using FEAR.
It seems they are using the Gohonzon as yet another tool to try to create more of a permanent bond with SGI, and to create more control by FEAR. One assumes if one did damage the Gohonzon and their Karma went bad, then there is a way to make the Karma better, by doing MORE things for SGI... ;-)

Firings:
Its interesting about those SGI firings. Is that happening in other locations too?
Maybe they are having trouble, and want to clean house. Or maybe they just purge the ranks once in a while.
Very interesting SGI talks about "not taking money" in the Code Of Conduct. Seems SGI fears some local leaders are scooping up some money?
And the part about not taking sexual advantage, also points to abuses at the local level.

Maybe someone can post that new SGI Code Of Conduct in the thread?

From my point of view and what I've seen of SGI, my biggest problem is their "mentor-disciple" method of teaching. You don't get to choose your mentor and the mentors don't need to have any qualifications or training as far as I know. On top of that, there is no regulation on what the mentors can and cannot do. My ex's mentor for example is using SGI to back up her claims of having psychic powers and is using it to control my ex. She is extremely controlling. She went over to his house and literally made him throw out momentoes of his life and rearranged all of his furniture. She even started lecturing his mother about how to become a better mother (which his mother was not too pleased about). She's controlling who he sees and what he does with his time. As well, I'm not sure how much of what she is teaching is actual Nichiren Buddhism and how much of it is her own interpretation or her own beliefs. For example, she told my ex that I had bad family karma and that if he continued to associate with me, my family karma would drag him down. As far as I know, your karma is your own and is not related to others. What really drove me nuts the first time I met her was she wrote "nam myoho renge kyo" WRONG. Then she started asking for rides to the local SGI centre. It was literally 50km out of the way for my ex, but he would drive her EVERYDAY. He said it was good for his karma. On top of that, she had him drive her to a local casino, so she could use her "abilities" to win spending money. I'm not kidding. Her husband has been laid off. One of her kids is deathly ill in the hospital and her other kid is going to court and might even end up with jail time and she is currently not working. She refuses to do small odds and ends jobs to make money, so she has to resort to exploiting her "abilities" at casinos to make money. I don't understand how someone like that can be a district leader and a respected member in SGI.

obsidian, I can relate to what you have said! One of the problems that I have always had with SGI is that sometimes our "leaders" don't seem to have their lives together at all! My husband and I are well-educated and we both work very hard. We have a nice house and are able to provide well for our children. But we both really work hard-we went to school to get a good education, and then work very hard at our jobs. Some of the people who are supposed to be looked up to can't hold onto a job. Their kids may be messed up and they may live in poor housing. Unfortunate things may happen to them. They don't work hard, and just chant to change their "financial fortune" instead of trying to work hard, plan, and trying to establish consistency in their jobs and lives. Planning is looked down on in SGI. Leaders say to use the "strategy of the lotus sutra" instead of using the stategy of your mind and thinking things out. Certainly not all leaders are that way, but many are. They have no ability to work hard and stay focused. I have been offered financial advice (not asked for) by a leader whose financial sitution is totally messed up. I think a good, strong work ethic is important to succeeding in life, not jst chanting for miracles. You have to take action (actually, Pres. Ikeda says that, but I think that most of SGI ignores it).

By the way, I'm sorry about what happened to you and your fiance.

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lthomas
I was wondering for those that have quit SGI, and continue to chant, do you still chant with the same Gohonzan the organization gave to you? Or have you gotten another one? The reasons as to why I ask this question is because, from time to time I would still like to chant. Not twice a day but maybe once a day or 4 to 5 times a week. Please get back to me ASAP
possible with this answer. I was also wondering because, an Area Leader who comes to my district meetings sometimes says that, the Gohonzan is not really ours it belongs to the organization. I really don't want to give it back.

Thanks
lthomas

If you feel a connection to your Gohonzon, absolutely, under no circumstances should you feel compelled to give it back to the SGI-USA. It's BS for them to claim it's really theirs, and that you've just got it on loan.

I say this even though I handled things differently. When I decided to withdraw from the SGI once and for all, I packed all of my stuff, including Gohonzon, and left it at the entrance of the community center. I wanted nothing to do with SGI, so it felt better to me to give it back to them. I haven't felt the need to chant with any regularity, nor to have a Gohonzon. But there are ways of getting them from other sources.

Tsukimoto:
I laughed so much when I read that three Buddha statues, a statue of the Hindu goddess Sarasvati and a fertility god, and Mary share the same shelf!
Many Christians would object because many believe that Jesus (and Mary) are the only truth.
I'm Christian, but in Unity and Religious Science (my favorite churches) they have taught me that there are many paths to God or many paths to find our connection with the Infinite or our enlightment.
That's why the idea of SGI being the only truth didn't make sense to me.
I hope we all find the path that is right for each of us!!!!
I still got a good laugh imagining Mary with Buddha and a Hindu goddess in the same shelf!
Thank you :)