Hi there,
recently I came across a catalogue of questions about "healthy and unhealthy structures" in Buddhist Groups. It was published by the DBU (Deutsche Buddhistische Union), the DBU is sort of an umbrella organisation of various Buddhist traditions in Germany. The list is not even aimed at SGI, but I guess more against some cult like groups of Tibetan Buddhism. So its a look at cult like phenomena from a Buddhist point of view, which I find quite interesting and must admit that I could relate to quite a few points in respect to you all know who.

- What is my motivation on my path?
- What fascinates me about Buddhism?
- Do stories about holy men or the promise of holiness impress me?
- What role does the need for a feeling of security, affirmation and approval
play in my life?
- Do I have the impression that I can leave the group as easily as I joined it?
- Am I given the opportunity to keep up my contacts outside of the group?
- Am I allowed to voice criticism without being discriminated for doing so?
- Are within the group the teachings of the Buddha or the teachers themselves
in the centre of attention?
- Are the teachers qualified by the means of a thorough study of Buddhist
teachings and own experience?
- Are the teachers trying to live according to the teachings of the Buddha?
- Are the teachers and their respective groups embedded in their own Buddhist
tradition/school?
- Is there an exchange with other groups and traditions?
- Is there an authentication by other approved teachers?
- Are dependencies created by the teacher/disciple relationship?
- What role do titles, authority and "career opportunity" play in your group?
- Is there financial transparency within the organisation?
- Is munificence being taken advantage of?
- Have I become financially depended?
- Have I donated exceeding my financial abilities? Have I run into debts
because of that? Have others in the group done so?
- Are aggressive methods being used either for recruitment or appeal for funds?
- Is my man power being exploited?
- Are sexual relationships being encouraged that have an unhealthy effect?
- Is coercion and /or force being used against me or other members of the
group?
- Are occurring feelings of guilt exploited , amplified or is there help to get
rid of them?
- Is there defamation, misinformation, or depreciation of critics, different
opinions or of other groups, teachers or other traditions/schools?
- Are other teachers, ways of practice being mentioned in an appreciated
manner?
- Am I being encouraged to develop personal responsibility and self esteem?

Thank you Tsukimoto and Ithomas for sharing.
Even if my ‘friend’ had told me I didn’t have to quit my beliefs, it was already clear to me that I wasn’t supposed to talk anymore about God or Jesus (because the Buddha they were teaching was the only truth). She told me they don’t talk about Love, but respect. It was going to be very hard to combine my Christian beliefs about Jesus and a Loving God with what they teach. They seem like two totally different languages.
I read a book about Buddhism called, “Buddha in your Backpack” by Franz Metcalf, that seemed so good and that’s why I wasn’t afraid of trying Buddhism. But now I learned that SGI teaches different things that what I read in that book.
When I was about 20 years old I discovered that I could talk to myself in the mirror and everything I would say will come true. I became the smartest in college, I got great friends, I became popular, liked, loved and I got an amazing boyfriend I liked so much. Then I kind of lost it because I never did it again. I guess I thought that I just had to do it a month or so and then I’ve made it for life.
So I know that there’s an Infinite Power in the Universe and Inside of us that can make our lives better. But there’s not just one way to tap into that power. There are many ways!!
That’s why I couldn’t understand why my friend kept telling me that their chanting was the only way, because I’ve proven in my life that I could tap into the power just by talking to the mirror. And by the way, now I’m reading a book by the same title, “Talk to the Mirror” which is NOT a best seller but I found it free in the internet, and it called my attention because I know it’s a powerful thing to make things happen. Florine Mark who wrote the book built one of the most successful Weight Watchers franchisees in the world
My friend even says that many times they are broke, but insists that they are happy. And she is the one telling me that their chanting techniques work????
I’ve been studying Science of Mind for a while now (trying to bring that Power back). They teach that silent meditation, guided meditation, chanting or mantras are great to connect us with our Infinite Intelligence, God, or what SGI calls enlightment and change our thoughts to more positive ways. And if our thoughts make our lives, than we will have a more positive life. This might be something you don't like, but I personally love it. I have learned many things from SOM without pressure, blackmailing, manipulation or fear! And my life is changing in all aspects for the better! I’m also talking to the mirror again just because I found out that it worked in the past for me. Nobody is forcing me!
I just feel that SGI is using the knowledge that chanting works -because impresses our subconscious minds- to manipulate, make money, control and blackmail people to stay with them.
But there are a lot of mantras and meditations, silent meditations where you don’t even need music or anything at all, even affirmations, visualizations, talking to the mirror, scripting, etc., can help us tap into that Great Power. It is whatever works for you and whatever you feel more comfortable doing. And definitely we don’t need any object of devotion or worship at all!
SGI is brainwashing us making us believe that only their meditation works and we have to use their Gohonzon and everything they say we need.
I’m going to start my own religion: “Shelyn” (I’m making up a name) I’m going to invent my own mantra that it’s the only one that works, and I’m going to invent an object of devotion called “Shelyn,” and people have to buy everything I tell them they need from me, they can’t buy it from any other source. I’m the only truth and I’m going to scare people if they don’t join my religion, if they try to leave, or if they don’t bring new members!
Sure, SGI is a very smart 'money making' business!
I found a mantra on rapidshare, “Om Mani Padme Hum,” if somebody is interested let me know.
I personally would never try the Nam Myoho Renge Kio chanting again –and I think it works, there’s nothing wrong with it- but I was left with such a bad impression that at this point will hurt me instead of help me.
I also found a lot of good music from Steven Halpern for a more quiet meditation; if you want I can send you the link.
I’ve been learning a lot about listening to our feelings and that’s why when SGI didn’t feel right I was guided to find more information about it, and now with so much conviction I’m telling my ‘friend’ when she calls me that I’m not going back!!!!!!
In my second (and last ever) meeting I kept asking questions and questions and nobody would tell me what I really wanted to know; why in the… do you think you are the only truth in the whole wide world?
I was starting to even doubt my beliefs about everything I’ve been learning from SOM, but thankfully SGI didn’t have a chance to hurt me that much, I’ve learned something new, and just makes me stronger in knowing that I have to keep finding the ways that feel right for me!
It's awesome because I went through this with teenage daughter, and it's teaching her the kind of manipulation that exists in this world, so that if it happens again she can be more aware! This is the 10th church I've tried myself.
But I made mistakes, because the Jehovah Witnesses were able to manipulate me for about a year a long, long time ago. That’s another pushy religion that says they are the only truth, and they force you to go door to door to convert everybody.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR AWAKENING ME!
I LOVE YOU ALL!

Awaken, I'm really happy for you that you discovered this forum and decided for yourself what's right for you!

All that talk SGI leaders say about you can be a "Christian and a Buddhist" is pure B.S.! Sorry to be graphic, but I've seen them saying that to new members, and we regular members all knew it was with a wink-wink-nodd-nodd attitude, with the understanding that "Hey, let's just say that so the new member will start chanting." But I guarantee you, if you start becoming a member and still pray to Jesus or have Christian beliefs, somebody will berate you, "Why are you doing that?" if they catch you. Or, if not a berating, it would be in the form of gentler pressure, such as “Oh, let’s have two leaders come and do a home visit on you and talk about your other beliefs!”

>She told me they don’t talk about Love, but respect.

In my opinion, this "respect" that they talk about, I found out later on, really has to do with this kind of politically correct respect for "all" people's inner Buddha nature, regardless of whether they're killers or mass murders, as long as they're of the right ethnicity, religion, or political persuasion. The whole "dialogue will lead to world peace thing." They believe they can dialogue with terrorists even though they killed thousands of us Americans on 9-11. I don't want to get into a political thing, and I don't know what your political leaning is, but I just don't believe that talk solves everything just because we respect the other person no matter what, as SGI believes (except that SGI will not respect those who may have conservative belief: they demonize them as fascists, close-minded bigots all the time). Their respect is a very very selective kind of respect.

SGI never talks about Love. How can the Gohonzon love you back? How can Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo love you back ? They always avoid the topic by saying Love doesn’t matter, or use sophistry to steer you away from asking. I don’t even think I’ve ever heard them say “We love our fellow men” like Christians do. You are very astute for pointing this out. I think they probably will claim that love is an individual thing, that you are free to love your family and loved ones.

As for me, I crave the love of something or someone I worship. That's why I am investigating other religions with a personified deity or deities. I'm reading the Urantia Book now and find its message to be comforting and convincing to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2009 09:48AM by Mav.

Quote
lthomas
No matter what it is that I do, it is never enough.

If I am sad or having a bad day, I am considered to be not practicing correctly when it is perfectly normal to feel these emotions as a human.

I remember a few times being told that if I ever left SGI that, "my life would never be the same" and that life would be even harder with only a semblance of happiness. At that point I became scared to leave given that I do not have enough family close to where I live and that most of the members are my friends given that they live close to me. I feel very brainwashed. Even though I know some to the things that they have said to me is hoopla, I still fear that life will be bad if I decide not to practice. However, I know in my heart that the time has come to move on and that eventually, I will start to realize that I knew how to be happy all along.

lThomas, I experienced this too while I was in SGI. No matter how much work I was doing for the organization, no matter how much I chanted -- leaders insisted that it was never enough. If we members were sick, depressed, or being treated badly by someone -- it was somehow always your own fault. You weren't chanting or working hard enough, or with the right attitude.

And of course, if you ever even think about leaving...well, your life is really going to go to hell in a handbasket. It's been interesting to look around this site and see how many different groups there are -- who are also threatening members with doom if the member leaves! They can't ALL be right.

There's a woman in my city who has lost over 200 pounds (she weighed over 400 at one point) and she now writes about overeating, addictions, dieting, changing habits. She writes that she used to think that life would be perfect once she lost the weight. She'd be slender, happy, loved and food would no longer be an issue. She says now that it's not that simple. While she enjoys being thinner, she finds that life still has its ups and downs. Sometimes she does well at sticking with a healthful diet and exercise plan -- sometimes she doesn't. She says her life is a work in progress, like a roller coaster -- ups and downs, and you just hang on and enjoy the ride.

That sounds like a good description of my post-SGI life. It's better than when I was in SGI, and still has its ups and downs. Sometimes I wish it were less bumpy, but mostly I enjoy the ride.

Awaken, it seems to me that SGI's "Chant and you can make it happen," is similar to your mirror self-talk. It's an idea that has been stated in many different ways, from Norman Vincent Peale's "The Power of Positive Thinking," to "The Secret." It's true that there has to be something to it. If you believe that you can achieve something, you're likely to persist until you do. If you believe that you're likeable, then you may act more relaxed, confident and friendly with others, and thus get more positive responses from them.

Still as Mav said, "Chanting doesn't get you a job." I didn't like how SGI leaders twist the inevitable ups and downs of life into some kind of evidence that you're practicing well -- or badly. Things are going well? It's a benefit because you worked hard for SGI. Things are going badly? It's all your fault because you are not dedicated enough to SGI -- or you may even have done something bad in a previous life. You blame yourself for something awful that you must have done in some previous life that you don't remember (and that you may or may not have even had.)

Quackwatch.com had an interesting article that relates to this: "Why Bogus Therapies Often Seem to Work," by Barry L. Beyerstein. Beyerstein is writing about alternative medicine and health, but I think that what he writes also applies to chanting and overall life.

1. Some illnesses or problems simply run their natural course or are cyclical. Your immune system fights off the infection. The irritating person gets tired of bothering you and finds someone else to annoy.

2. The placebo affect -- you expect that things will get better, so they do -- or you just perceive things as better.

3. People who hedge their bets may credit the wrong thing. You're using both alternative and mainstream medicine. You get better and think it was all due to the alternative medicine, though it may have been the mainstream medicine. You chanted and spent a lot of time looking for a job. You get the job you wanted, and think it was because you chanted, when probably your job-hunting had more to do with it.

The Skeptic's Dictionary (skepdic.com) also talks about confirmation bias and selective thinking (under their logic and perception section). Basically, we all notice what confirms our beliefs, and ignore evidence against our beliefs. For example, Sam left SGI and then his wife left him. Bad things happen to people who leave SGI! Don't leave SGI! The truth could be that Joe, Mary, and Fred left SGI and their lives are fine. Maybe from Sam's point of view, the wife leaving was actually a good thing too...but SGI leaders would just spin it and make it sound like a sad thing. Or maybe Sam is initially very sad about losing the wife, but later meets a much better woman. Just the ups and downs of life that everyone has, Buddhist or not.

I am just going to share a little bit more as to why I chose to leave SGI. I can recall about two years ago, I was dating a member who was emotionally and verbally abusive. To make a long story short he dumped me in a way that was extremely cruel, almost to the point that I am sure that he is a sociopath. I remember telling one of the members and the only support that I got was: Kiesha this is buddhism working in it's way for you. You must chant for his happiness. A long time ago a woman was at a meeting and there was a guy who was sitting across from her she felt a connection to him so, she introduced herself to him and asked if he would like to come over and chant with her. The man ended up raping her. [This member later ended up telling me that it was meant for this to happen because she chose this life in a past life]. I was shocked and appalled but yes I did stay. I stayed because I was in tremendous pain and really depended on these people. This was about two years ago. I never really was quite the same after that and in the back of my mind somewhere knew that I would end up leaving, I just did not know when until the day after yesterday. A few of the young women struggled as a result of being in relationships and were basically told the same thing. That they should chant for someone else's happiness who had treated them so badly. I swear to God it was like being in a soap opera that I could not get out of, but I sincerely wanted to be enlightened. I tried my hardest. I will say this, the only thing that the chanting has done has, subdued my anxiety and made me feel better. Has it made me feel happy? I don't know and don't think so. It's ok though, because I believe that happiness is a concept that is sometimes abstract and very concrete. I get happy if I hear a song from my past, see a smiling baby, etc. etc. It's kind of sad to me that a quote such as Nam Myo Ho Renge Kyo is used for ulterior motives instead of what it should be used for and that is to make people feel at ease or happiness if they choose to. Nam Myo Ho Renge Kyo is a good thing, at least I believe, but other people have taken it and have chosen to turn it in to something else. Once again thanks for everyone's support who've responded to my messages. This is somewhat of a difficult time for me but I know that I can be happy in this lifetime without the SGI.

Soka Gakkai head Ikeda allegedly raped follower
[www.culteducation.com]

Woman accuses Japan Buddhist leader of rape
[www.culteducation.com]

Soka Gakkai [www.culteducation.com]

Quote
lthomas
I was dating a member who was emotionally and verbally abusive. To make a long story short he dumped me in a way that was extremely cruel, almost to the point that I am sure that he is a sociopath. I remember telling one of the members and the only support that I got was: Kiesha this is buddhism working in it's way for you. You must chant for his happiness.

A long time ago a woman was at a meeting and there was a guy who was sitting across from her she felt a connection to him so, she introduced herself to him and asked if he would like to come over and chant with her. The man ended up raping her. [This member later ended up telling me that it was meant for this to happen because she chose this life in a past life].

A few of the young women struggled as a result of being in relationships and were basically told the same thing. That they should chant for someone else's happiness who had treated them so badly.

lthomas, I'm sorry that this happened to you. This kind of "guidance" just seems to be given over and over again in SGI. Leaders give it to members, until the members are repeating it to themselves and eachother. Gingermarie, a few pages back, posted about having to work with an abusive male leader, and just being told by her leaders that it was her karma, and that she should chant for his happiness!

The basic premise of SGI, is that you can change ANYTHING by chanting. Anything! If you follow this line of "reasoning" to the end --EVERYTHING that happens to you or your loved ones is your fault because you could have chanted it away -- if you were chanting properly and enough.

"You can change anything by chanting." This is a faulty premise, and the source of a lot of bad conclusions, lousy advice, and personal suffering.

Also, I think an important thing to remember about SGI leaders -- is that you don't need any particular qualifications to be a leader. (I should know, I was one.) Also -- you don't get training in how to be a leader.

At the lower levels, where I was, almost any person who was willing to do the work would be chosen as a leader. I was willing to make phone calls and plan meetings -- so I was asked to be a group leader.

The leaders who were in the middle or senior levels, were the SGI loyalists. They didn't necessarily know anything about anything, not even Nichiren Buddhism. I'm no expert on the teachings of Buddhism, but even I knew more about that than some of my senior leaders. These people DON'T have any training in psychology, finance, marriage counselling, raising kids, medicine (unless they just happened to be a financial advisor, marriage counselor, psychologist or medical person by profession).

Yet we were always urged to "get guidance from a leader." WHY? The leaders did NOT know any more than the rest of us -- they were leaders because they supported SGI and President Ikeda unquestioningly -- and believe that you can change anything, from diabetes to an abusive relationship, by chanting. Which suggests to me that their judgement is pretty flawed! You'd probably get better "guidance" from stopping the next stranger you meet on the street and asking him or her for advice.

SGI leaders simply do not know what to say, other than, "It's your karma, chant more, work more for SGI." Whether the problem is that you're sick, in debt, someone is bullying you -- same response for everything.

I think people may be inclined to trust leaders and people in religious organizations in general. Even now, I can find myself thinking, "Well, so and so is in a position of leadership; surely they were chosen for a reason, some knowledge or insight." I find myself wanting to trust someone because they're religious. Then I think about the Catholic priests who've abused children, and the church officials who've covered up for them, the shenanigans that some of our elected officials have gotten into, the evangelists who take their followers' money and live in luxury, the SGI leaders whose lives are a mess, and yet they're out giving guidance to everyone else.

I have to remind myself that leaders are not necessarily walking in the right direction, and religion can be a great hiding place for scoundrels.

Anticult, as far as the allegations of Ikeda raping the women's division leader, I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. No doubt Ikeda would feel entitled to do anything he wants to any woman. Still, the alleged victim waited years to come forward, there is no physical evidence, and she and her husband want money. I don't see how anyone could prove or disprove it at this point.

Hello, everyone. I have been reading this forum for a few weeks. I appreciate your comments. Currently I have a real problem. I have been a member of SGI/NSA for nearly 34 years! Now I'm having some significant doubts, and have become less and less active. But after 34 years, it's my life! How can I give up everything that I believed in for so many years? I don't have many friends outside of SGI. I don't know where to turn.

I strted chanting when I was 23 years old. I was pretty shy and didn't make friends easily. I was always in the background. I found that chanting really gave me a feeling of happiness. I didn't like NSA at first, but after I got used to their strange ways, I really started to have fun and make good friends. After about 8 years I met my husband, we got married and had first one girl, and then 8 years later, another girl. My husband was a district leader, and then became a chapter leader. I was a hancho on and off (I was working and raising children, and besides, I'm not the leader "type"-I'm too quiet) so I wasn't asked to be anything more. My oldest daughter was a YWD district leader before she went off to college. For years we had tons of meetings at our house, sometimes several per week! I was a really good and faithful member. I went to Tozan (a "pilgramage") three times, and even had my experience published in "Dawn's Early Light". Anyone remember that book?

A few years ago everything seemed like it was changing. First the temple issue. It made me so uncomfortable. The situation with the temple seemed terrible at first, but after a while it seemed like no big deal. Why did SGI dwell on it? It made me have some real doubts. Sometimes I thought that SGI had even made the whole thing up. Maybe they wanted President Ikeda to look like he was persecuted, like Jesus Christ. As an American, I believed in freedom of religion. Why was SGI saying that the temple religion was bad and "evil"? Why were they always saying that we had to "fight evil?" It seemed so un-Buddhist.

A couple of years ago, the "Mentor-Disciple" relationship started being cramed down our throats. I always enjoyed reading President Ikeda's writing, but I never was a fanatic, not even close. Actually, I didn't understand why people were so nuts about him. It just got worse and worse. Articles in the World Tribune focused on subjects like "when I first accepted President Ikeda as my saviour-opps, I mean mentor". About a year ago or so, I went to a big meeting, and Danny Nagashima said "The only way to true happiness is through the mentor-disciple relationship." So many people at that meeting looked enthralled. I felt very alone. I was a member of SGI, not a disciple of President Ikeda! I liked to chant and do gongyo. Those are two subjects that SGI doesn't talk about much anymore.

My husband started to have doubts and questions about the same time I did. A few months ago, he got fired from being a chapter leader.

I could go on and on. This has helped me vent. I still don't know what I'm going to do. I like the spiritual aspect of Nichiren Buddism. I like chanting. I like many of the people that have been so much a part of my life for the past 34 years. But I don't know how I can be member of this cult anymore.

I have to agree with tsukimoto about the rape allegation. It came up during the split from Nichiren Shoshu, a time when a BIG load of dirty laundry was washed on both sides. The Japanese yellow press was quite engaged in that.
The list that I posted earlier contains quite a number of points that are valid even for SGI'lers to ask themselves. It is not Buddhims, not Nichiren Buddhism that is being practiced in SGI.
Another point that was raised was the role of Leaders in SGI, the "guidances" handed out are not based on a thorough knowledge of Buddhism. Secondly they can be dangerous at times when those guidances contain "adcive" on life in general - those people are not therapists. Its not like talking to a friend and opinions and advices are exchanged.

Happy 4th everyone! Hope all of you are enjoying a wonderful day with friends and families, even those outside the States!

On a day like this, I feel really appreciative of being alive. And I feel that without chanting or attending SGI meetings! :) Like quiet one, I enjoy the spiritual aspect of the Nichiren Buddhism and enjoy chanting. I can really relate to her about not wanting to cut the spiritual connection completely. Does anyone feel like that? One thing I have to say that SGI does (or did) well is that they are good at getting you to practice your spiritual faith on a daily, consistent basis. That’s what I feel is missing from my life now that I’m not a member anymore. I have a need to “hook up” with the spiritual or the universal mind/power, but can’t motivate myself to do it alone. My girlfriend is a Christian and used to go to church actively in Ohio, but out here in LA she hasn’t gone to church in years. I also don’t know if I’m ready to just show up at some Christian churches here. Maybe the rock-n-roll church in Hollywood since I’m near there. lol I think I’ll just chant on my own since I still have my Gohonzon up.

@lthomas: I really feel for you that SGI leaders were giving you that kind of guidance about that guy you were dating. I got pissed off all the time about that stupid guidance that “you must chant for his/her happiness” when it was them who clearly was emotionally cruel. It’s almost like SGI-USA (don’t know about SGI-Japan) takes this concept of not judging the other person at all so far that they will never ever condemn their behavior. Instead, they blame the victim. Only their interpretation of Buddhism seems to do this! Other forms of Buddhism, like the one I grew up in, always warned people to not do this or that or else they’ll get bad karma. A dose of good-old fashioned warning like that that would be good in SGI-USA. Maybe that’s my simplistic interpretation of Buddhism, but that’s how I feel. The “bad” guys overall in the SGI-USA are not admonished enough.

Quote
tsukimoto
The Skeptic's Dictionary (skepdic.com) also talks about confirmation bias and selective thinking (under their logic and perception section). Basically, we all notice what confirms our beliefs, and ignore evidence against our beliefs.

tsukimoto, you have very good insights about what goes on in SGI, and I enjoy reading them. The Skeptic’s Dictionary is helpful, I’ve found, to get general information. However, I don’t trust everything in there. For example, I’ve been reading the Urantia Book and found its concepts ring very true and comforting to me. Yet, the Skeptic’s Dictionary completely knocks the Urantia Book based on very flimsy quotes, taking them out of isolated contexts, and engaging in very superficial analysis. OK, I understand that the Urantia Book, or any given religious or spiritual practice is not for everyone, but to me, based on reading many other articles on the Skeptic’s Dictionary, the Dictionary seems very biased toward a materialistic, atheistic point of view. It does not seem any religious or spiritual phenomenon would pass the Skeptic’s test. The author, Robert Carroll, finds a way to knock any spiritual belief as unreal. Yet, I can tell you that my faith in the Gohonzon was real when I was in SGI. I suspect that your faith was real, too, to you, when you were practicing. Just like my faith now in the Urantia Book now is real. It’s a very personal experience, of course, that can’t be easily explained to another. But, isn’t that what faith is all about.

Peace.