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TaitenAndProud
"How can you tell whether what's now being taught is the same as what was originally supposedly taught, given that nothing was ever written down?" I asked. She did not reply.

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Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2013 11:40AM by Nichijew.

Great contribution, corboy.

Supposedly the first introduction of smallpox to Japan in the 6th century CE was catastropic--one third of the people were estimated to have died. Thi is comparable to the mortality rate produced by the 14th century bubonic plague pandemic in Western Europe.

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There have been three major outbreaks of plague. The Plague of Justinian in the 6th and 7th centuries is the first known attack on record, and marks the first firmly recorded pattern of bubonic plague. From historical descriptions, as much as 40 percent of the population of Constantinople died from the plague. Modern estimates suggest half of Europe's population was wiped out before the plague disappeared in the 700s.[8] After 750, major epidemic diseases did not appear again in Europe until the Black Death of the 14th century. [en.wikipedia.org]

It's interesting that so many sources only locate the Black Death in the 14th Century and later - perhaps that's because it wasn't called the Black Death earlier, though it was the same thing. Here is a chart showing the 18 outbreaks of plague starting in the 6th Century until the mid-8th Century:

[contagions.files.wordpress.com]

The Plague of Justinian was *precisely* where Christianity arose and around the same timeframe. For those not in the know, here is an old map showing Constantinople:

[theonlinebibleschool.net]

Note the proximity of Constantinople to Nicaea, as in "Councils of Nicaea" O_O

The area between Constantinople, Armenia, and Syria on that map is Asia Minor, home to some of the key players. What we now regard as the history of this region was composed by the Catholic Church to serve its own purposes; there was a vast Scythian empire that stretched across this area and on over toward Mesopotamia that left behind abundant archaeological artifacts but is not in our history. There is a problem.

But aside from that, I think that the correlation of savage outbreaks of disease with the advent of supernatural-saving religions, along with apocalyptic scenarios and a great, superlative, transcendent, untouchable founder can tell us a lot about human nature, the human psyche, and human tendencies, which are not necessarily productive, positive, or value-creative *ahem*.

To add to my previous post, this superlative founder must also be unquestioningly right about everything. If there's any doubt, well, then, one must *interpret* whatever it is so that it fits the reputation. Even if it means making it into the *opposite* of what the founder clearly wrote - as in the case where Nichiren demanded that the government burn those other Buddhist sects' temples to the ground and cut their priests' heads off.

Oh, he didn't *REALLY* mean that. He just meant that the government should forbid anyone from giving them donations! Yeah, that's the ticket! He just WROTE "burn their temples to the ground" and "cut their heads off" for...um...dramatic effect? Yeah, THAT's the ticket!

He *could* have written "forbid anyone from giving them donations", of course - if that's what he meant O_O

"The guest said: If we are to put an end to these people who slander the Law and do away with those who violate the prohibitions of the Buddha, then are we to condemn them to death as described in the sutra passages you have just cited? If we do that, then we ourselves will be guilty of inflicting injury and death upon others, and will suffer the consequences, will we not?

In the Daijuku Sutra, the Buddha says: "If a person shaves his head and puts on clerical robes, then, whether that person observes the precepts or violates them, both heavenly and human beings should give him alms. In doing so, they are giving alms and support to me, for that person is my son. But if men beat that person, they are beating my son, and if they curse and insult him, they are reviling me."

If we stop to consider, we must realize that, regardless of whether one is good or bad, right or wrong, if he is a priest, then he deserves to have alms and nourishment extended to him For how could one beat and insult the son and still not cause grief and sorrow to the father? The Brahmans of the Bamboo Staff school who killed the Venerable Maudgalyayana have for a long time been sunk in the depths of the hell of incessant suffering. Because Devadatta murdered the nun Utpalavarna, he has for a long time gasped in the flames of the Avichi Hell86. Examples from earlier ages make the matter perfectly clear, and later ages fear this offense most of all. You speak of punishing those who slander the Law, but to do so would violate the Buddha’s prohibitions. I can hardly believe that such a course would be right. How can you justify that?

The host said: You have clearly seen the sutra passages that I have cited, and yet you can ask a question like that! Are they beyond the power of your mind to comprehend? Or do you fail to understand the reasoning behind them? I certainly have no intention of censuring the sons of the Buddha. My only hatred is for the act of slandering the Law. According to the Buddhist teachings, prior to Shakyamuni slanderous monks would have incurred the death penalty. But since the time of Shakyamuni, or One Who Can Forbear, the giving of alms for slanderous monks is forbidden in the sutra teachings. Now if all the four kinds of Buddhists within the four seas and the ten thousand lands would only cease giving alms to wicked priests and instead all come over to the side of the good, then how could any more troubles rise to plague us or disasters come to confront us?" -- On Securing the Peace of the Land Through the Propagation of the Right Law

Nichijew

All the Nembutsu and Zen temples, such as Kenchoji, Jufuku-ji, Gokuraku-ji, Daibutsuden, and Choraku-ji, should be burned to the ground, and their priests taken to Yui Beach to have their heads cut off. If this is not done, then Japan is certain to be destroyed! - from The Selection of the Time [www.sgilibrary.org]

The government did not do what Nichiren demanded.

Japan was not destroyed.

Nichiren was wrong.

The End.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2013 01:16PM by TaitenAndProud.

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[www.google.com]

Nichijew

So you're expecting us all to *ASSUME* that people unnamed and unrecorded by any accounts somehow had these anomalous "perfect memories" and thus, whatever people now are saying was the original teaching of Shakyamuni is therefore the original teaching of Shakyamuni?

In the *complete absence* of any confirming evidence?

Without even knowing *anything* about these supposed "perfect memory" individuals who didn't even merit a *mention* in any text?

Sorry. That's just too much. No sale.

corboy, I missed this earlier post of yours (I don't know why some posts insert within the thread while others post at the end):

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Taiten, I hope your sister get some help or surcease.

RE: my sister - I think she's too *attached* to the "perks" that go along with being the wife of the most wealthy man in town (though nouveau riche in an old town of old money), and if she doesn't do as he says, he'll be ruthless in cutting her off. I have seen hints of his capacity to be ruthless, and, frankly, he kind of scares me. Though he's always nice as pie - know that type? So she won't be seeking any help O_O

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It is strange that her physician husband has not hired a top notch adminstrative assistant to keep the books and order drugs. If he ever faces a court action, it would look strange for him to have to confess that he requires his wife to do a job that most MDs hire a professional to do.

I know, right?? And she has no special training or credential that would qualify for her to do that sort of work - keeping in mind that she's in charge of ordering his chemotherapy drugs! She's got a degree in Latin and Antiquities, for goshsakes, and a *teaching* certificate!! She's a high school teacher! And yet she's expected to meet with the pharmaceutical reps - it's deuced odd!

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And one should be up until two in the morning. Its bad for health and much too easy to make a mistake with that kind of work, too.

Keeping in mind that she's in charge of ordering and keeping track of CHEMOTHERAPY DRUGS!! Some cost $10,000 per MONTH!

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And that your nieces and nephews may have some encounters and make some friends that can help them find a peaceful and happier way to live.

It's 4 girls. The eldest is 17, and homely as a muddy boot. She's got an extremely long torso and short legs (got the worst genetics for conformation). The second daughter is (so far) the prettiest - she has light brown curly hair and blue eyes (compared to the others' more Puerto Rican coloring), but she's got the same strange body shape, only her torso is boxy, tending to overweight, whereas the eldest is more slender. The two youngest - the third daughter looks 100% Puerto Rican - straight dark hair and brown eyes - and the youngest, I think, will grow up to be lovely - wavy dark hair, large brown eyes. While they were/are young, they were/are nice, but as they get to their teens, they become bitches. I wonder how much of that is due to the fact that they're so much in the care of non-parents...and the fact that they know their father is the richest man in town. No matter how homely they end up being, they'll never long for dates, as there will *always* be young men courting them because they know their father is rich. While it's better to be rich than poor, to always have in the back of your mind that people only want to be friends with you because of what YOU can do for THEM must be kind of icky...

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I spent some years in the activist part of the nonviolent peace movement. One thing that made me very sad was to discover that some of our most admired members, persons who did vast good in public, had private lives that were troubled and their spouses often felt ashamed to complain or protest.

Oh, I've heard of that. The busy person's activity is so "noble", so "virtuous", so focused on helping humanity that to even mention that you, the spouse or the children, are being neglected or at least put in second place is just so *SELFISH* and so *INSENSITIVE*! Can't you see how *hard* the noble, virtuous person is working to help others??? What sort of monster *ARE* you???

Another example (can't remember if I mentioned) - they invested in vacation properties at this resort in Alabama. It's a 5.5 hour drive. They drive down Friday night and return Sunday afternoon O_O Me? Not a chance! I wouldn't commit to that much driving for such a paltry down-time in between! But my sister does it - without question. Three weeks after she gave birth to their 4th child, her husband decided they were all going to drive down to Orlando and go to Disney World. Fortunately, my parents were available to convoy down with their RV and help out - can you *imagine*??? It's like a 12 hour drive!

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Years ago, in some satirical poem, I read a line "Would you presume to heal others, full of sores yourself?"

Went for a google search and found this.

Euripedes has, "A physician for others, but himself teeming with sores," (Frag.
1086).

This was written over two thousand years ago, but whether one is describing workaholic doctors or preachers, its the same thing. They didnt yet know about addiction, but knew the human picture.

AKA "Physician, heal thyself" (Luke 4:23)? There's *nothing* original within Christianity - it's *ALL* copied from elsewhere.

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Am sorry for the many spelling mistakes in my post from yesterday. Too often thats what happens when I dont have enough caffeine in my system when typing in the morning.

I didn't notice :}

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Part of what was on my mind yesterday was the reported suicide of 27 year old Matthew Warren, son of the empire builder pastor who wrote The Purpose Driven Life.

I thought a lot about that myself. Supposedly, if yer doin it rite, everything in your life will be perfect. You will be wealthy, your children will be obedient, etc. Especially in Christianity, where the children's obedience is supposed to be the proof of a man's fitness for church leadership:

1 Timothy 3:2-13 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

You have to wonder, given how backstabby church people tend to be, whether anyone had the nerve to say anything to Pastor Warren's face, or if his money and power silenced all observation. It's no different in the SGI - "leaders" feel free to comment upon details of the members' lives, but members are not to say boo about their leaders! And if anything bad happens to a member, leaders feel free to make any assumptions they wish about what horrible failure it was on the member's part that caused the tragedy, but if it's a LEADER who experiences the tragedy, oh, isn't it shocking? Isn't it sad? How could such a thing have happened? How tragic! As I'm sure you read on this thread, I observed exactly that with SGI leaders.

And the ones who make millions in the name of Buddha forget that, so the story goes, he was heir to clan leadership, had princely life and amusements--and chose to walk away from all of that when he saw the realities that face us all--sickness, old age, and death.

It appears he was the only religious leader to do so O_O

Lest anyone forget, Jesus supposedly wanted everyone to treat him like a king *eye roll*

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People running, running, running, on dopamine dont want to face their own humanity.

So how can they teach anything deeper to the rest of us.

It's interesting, isn't it? What you see when you know what to look for? We can't see things if we don't understand them - have you noticed that phenomenon? They don't even register in our consciousness! But once you know what to look for, you can *SEE*...

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But since the time of Shakyamuni, or One Who Can Forbear, the giving of alms for slanderous monks is forbidden in the sutra teachings.

No, it's not. Go ahead - prove it. Sutra sources, please. Nichiren need not apply.

Let's think this alms thing through. So priests deserve to receive alms. If alms are withheld, then the priests cannot survive as priests and will have to find some other sort of livelihood. So cutting off alms is the same thing as making it *impossible* for priests to be priests.

And this is what passes for "tolerance" and "plurality" and "inclusiveness" in your mind???

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Now if all the four kinds of Buddhists within the four seas and the ten thousand lands would only cease giving alms to wicked priests and instead all come over to the side of the good, then how could any more troubles rise to plague us or disasters come to confront us?

What a bunch of crap. Nichiren was saying, in other words, "Everybody should instead give all their money TO ME!"

You support that sort of selfishness, self-aggrandizing, graspingness, and naked ambition?? In the name of Buddhism???

And you REALLY think that what belief system someone embraces or which charities a person chooses to contribute to will have *any* effect on an epidemic of disease????????

Highly recommended reading-Plagues and Peoples by McNeill.

[www.google.com]


Mcneill mentions the lethal epidemics in China and Japan. They were frequent. He suggested that world renouncing belief systems such as Buddhism may well have become more appealing in a world seemingly saturated by death.

The city of Athens was demoralized by an epidemic (400s BCE) that, according to Thuycidides, had no precident, caused shockingly high mortality, and contributed to the defeat of Athens by Sparta in the Pelopennesian War. According to Dodd, in The Greeks and the Irrational, it in the wake of these crises that the Athenian government turned more authoritarian and archeological evidence turns up for a new phenomenon--curse tablets. And these are most numereous in Attica, right at this time.

In and around 180 CE, a series of epidemics, possible an early form of smallpox, led to great economic and military stress for the Roman empire. High death rates made it more difficult to support the army and collect taxes. It is from this time that the empire slowly began to shrink, right at the time more military action was needed to protect boundaries.

Smallpox begins to appear around the time of Mohammed's appearance. Smallpox may have been introduced into Europe from the East. Gregory of Tours records smallpox in terms that match descriptions of the disease today.

And, around the 7th Century BCE is when the first of the known great plague pandemics appeared in Egypt, Constantinople and the eastern Mediterranean basin. After that time, Western Europe's population shrank and there was not enough population density to support large epidemics--a situation that did not resume until the 14th century, when the great bubonic plague epidemic began in Asia, some time in the 1330s, followed the Mongol roads and trade routes, and at last reached Western Europe.

And in his book, The Greeks and the Irrational, Dodds describes how astrology came into use among the Greeks--a time of social crises when people were desperate to know what would happen.

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About 280 BCE more detailed information on astrology was made available to Greek readers by the writings of the Babylonian priest, Barossus without (it would seeem) causing any great excitement. The real vogue for astrology seems to start in the second century BCE, when a number of popular manuals, especially one composed in the name of an imaginary Pharaoh, the Revealations of Nechepso and Petosiris begin to circulate widely, and practicing astrologers appear as far afield as Rome.

Why did (astrology) occur then and not sooner?

The idea was by then no novelty, and the intellectual ground for its reception had long been prepared by the astral theology which was taught alike by Platonists, Aristotelians and Stoics, though Epicurus warned the world of its dangers.


One may guess that astrology's spread was favored by political conditons.

the troubled half century that preceded the Roman conquest of Greece, it was particularly important to know what was going to happen. One may guess also that the Babylonian Greek who occuppied the Chair of Zeno encouraged a sort of 'trahison de clercs' (The Stoa had already used its influence to kill the heliocentric hypothesis of Aristarchus which, if accepted, would have upset the foundations of both astrology and the Stoic religion)

"But behind such immediate causes we may suspect something deeper and less conscious; for a century or more, the individual had been face to face with his own intellectual freedom and now he turned tail and bolted from the horrid prospect--better the rigid determinism of astrological Fate than the terrifying burden of daily responsibility.

Rational men like Panaetius and Cicero tried to check this retreat by argument, as Plotinus was to do later, but without perceptible effect; certain motives are beyond the reach of argument.

Dodds The Greeks and the Irrational, page 247

Resembles the conditions in which Nichiren lived and prophesied.

More from Dodds about the anxious 2d century BCE

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"Besides astrology, the second century BCE saw the development of another irrational doctrine which deeply influenced the thought of later antiquity and of the whole Middle Ages--the theory of occult properties or forces immanent in animals, plants, and precious stones.

Though its beginnings areprobably much older, this was first systematically set forth by one Bolus of Mendes, called 'the Democritian' who appears to have written about 200 BCE. His system was closely linked to magical medicine and with alchemy; it was soon combined with astrology to which it formed a convenient supplement.

The awkward thing about the stars had always been their inaccessibility alike to prayer and to magic.

But if each planet had its representative in the animal, vegetable and mineral kingdoms, linked to it by an occult sympathy, as was now asserted, one could get at them magically by manipulating these earthly counterparts.,,,from the first century BCE onwards, Bolus begins to be quoted as a scientific authority comparable in status with Aristotle and Theophrastus, and his doctrines became incorporated into the generally accepted world view.

Dodds 247

Nichiren commbind with various search terms

Exploitation of Political

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Nationalism

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Apolcalpticism

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Millenarians

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Eschatology

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Fascism

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Imperialism

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Social unrest

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Social upheaval

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