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corboy

Holly, its interesting that you express confidence in your ability to brew a proper cup of tea. Is it possible that you gave some hint that you enjoyed making tea for people, considered yourself competant to do so that perhaps, for that very reason, your SG supervisor knew that would be a good pressure point by which to instill insecurity?

ID a place where you felt confident in your abilities and rebuke you, so that you'd come to feel insecure right in an area where you formerly had confidence in yourself?

Thanks for your comments corboy. The person in question didn't know me very well so she wouldn't have known how I felt about my tea making abilities. In this case, I think she felt she had to be seen to be taking some sort of action, as (shock, horror) one of the beloved members wasn't quite happy with his free beverage, and us one of the main functions of a lilac was to protect the members - I had committed a bit of a crime - and she was in the vicinity so had to save face a bit.

But I think you have made a good point regarding leaders knowing things about their members that they can use against them to install insecurity. I learnt very quickly never to say that I felt confident about doing an activity, e.g. stepping up to do m/c, lighting a candle, leading gongyo, etc, etc because I knew from bitter experience that if I did I would probably be accused by one of the leaders or a fellow member of being complacent (huge SGI sin) and that having this arrogant attitude might be creating room for 'the devel of the 6th heaven' to intervene and cause huge sansho shima. So I learnt to always say that I was 'struggling' with this or that activity or that I was having a 'real challenge' with it. A bit manipulative I know, but I couldn't handle all that ear bending and I repeated it so often I ended up believing it most of the time - lol.

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corboy

And to rebuke you for not finding a better time to go to the toilet--that's a rebuke that is outrageous when directed at an autonomous adult. A big part of leaving childhood is gaining privacy and autonomy over our usage of the bathroom. Wonder if its standard in SG to mind fuck someone about bathroom habits, just to have something, anything to mindfuck them about.

I know!!! At the time I felt the outrage of it deep down but couldn't really articulate it and just suppressed it, blaming myself. I still can't believe that I didn't stand up for myself on this one but I was in the depth of all that conditioning.

Certainly, if I went on any SGI courses or even day meetings there was a heavy degree over the scheduling - when we were allow to eat, when we could have a break, when we could talk to our friends etc - this has been described a lot on this forum, the most recent example is Hitch's description of what its like to go on a Tozan NOT under SGI control and how different this is.

I always used to find myself becoming more robotic and automaton like throughout the day but I just got used to it all and took it for granted that this was the way it had to be.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2013 04:15AM by holly_golightly.

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corboy

If you cant find anything, scold a member for being wrong to go to the bathroom. Maybe there is a shame tripping class taught as part of leadership training?

Correct me if I am taking this too far. Am shocked that anyone would have the nerve to rebuke adults for going to the bathroom.

I can only speak from my perspective regarding this incident but I feel in this case of the leader 'politely' suggesting I rethink my bathroom timings that she herself had probably had a lot of fear drummed into her about the terrible sin of not protecting the gohonzon, and, as such a high up leader with a lot of responsibilities, she wouldn't have wanted to have been responsible for making a 'bad cause' (i.e a naughty lilac not at her post) as she was ultimately responsible. She certainly wasn't aggressive about it but rather calm and firm (a bit like a schoolteacher) it did the trick anyway - I hung my head like a naughty schoolgirl - lol

Anyway I can laugh about it now and hopefully it has taught me a valuable lesson to never, ever let myself be put into a situation again where I allow someone to belittle me in that way.

But it is an interesting point that you raise about the possibility of shame tripping being installed into the organisation as a conscious techique - it would be interesting to research the 'guidance' these top level leaders get.

Byakuren, Ikeda Kayo-Kai, $oka-han, Gajokai, ... all of these stupid names are just that, silly names given to manufactured groups with The Gakkai CULT Org. "YOUTH!" division, created for the sole purpose of manipulating and CONTROLLING (in gakkai cult-speak = "training") its most vulnerable members.

It was an understood "No-No!" that anybody give their bodily functions priority over any Cousin Rufus activities while they were going on. You had to "hold it", for Cousin Rufus, or (as I've shared the story before) wear Cousin Rufus diapers as they did in the infamous Kansai campaigns.

I have another incident to share on this theme. Same temple, same $oka-han post assignment, just a different time / different day / different campaign. A fellow $oka-han had to go number #1 really bad, but rather than risk incurring the wrath of a $oka-han superior cult "leader" (if he was spotted visiting the cult building porcelain god while Cousin Rufus was on the property), ....

.... he turned around, took a few steps out into the wooded area surrounding the dirt parking lot and quickly relieved himself. Us fellow $oka-han around him, were alternately laughing and appalled at such behavior (it was funny, but not something I would have done). Then again, I wasn't in his shoes ... and when you gotta go, you gotta go.

Keep in mind, our "official" $oka-han uniforms were white pants, white long-sleeved shirts, red N$A ties, white or black shoes and a light blue windbreaker with a $oka-han Cult Secret Service Wanna-be Agent logo on the left breast area. Only the top cult $oka-han got the walkie-talkies and ear-pieces. Your average $oka-han's weapons were your flashlight, juzu-beads in your pocket and "faith" for Cousin Rufus. Lots of YMD, $oka-han amongst them, had tell-tale little yellow spots in the zipper area of their usually dirty cult uniform. Why? Because when you did have time to go to the bathroom, you did it just like everything else when you are a cult-org slave --> on the run, & quickly.

The gakkai cult org's charter says something about respecting "human dignity." Well, as is always the case, more hypocritical duality in the way things really are in reality in the gakkai cult org..



- Hitch



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2013 05:32AM by Hitch.

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holly_golightly

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Hitch
You can either laugh, cry or give respect after watching the following clip [www.youtube.com].

I give my respect to the lady in the front, wearing a gray t-shirt, off to the left side of the room when the camera pans around (she shows up a few times, at 0:25 seconds, 1:13, and 2:14 minute marks, before they stop including her in the pan around).

I know exactly how she feels. Bless her heart. My respect goes out to her for having the courage to not partake in the behavior regressing and thought-stopping cult org. rituals. There's always one or two in the crowd (thank goodness).



- Hitch

I agree about the lady in gray - Respect due! It takes a lot of inner strength not to go along with the herd. Hope she gets out.

Absolutely!

It's always been one my biggest gakkai cult org. pet-peeves, the bizarre, foolish and embarrassing things they pressure the members to do at activities. Even at the height of my time in, I never understood it and never fully got onboard with it. Once you realize it's a cult org. emotional-mental-behavior regressing & thought-stopping ritual, it's easy to understand what's going on and why. I'm hoping current cult members reading this mb will see it, too.

I've walked in that lady's shoes. It takes an immense amount of inner strength to go against the grain in the gakkai cult org.. I guarantee you that she has also been identified by other hardcore brainwashed members and "leaders" as somebody who needs to be targeted for "guidance" and (to their twisted cult minds) "helped." There *are* consequences to what she is doing (in reality, nothing wrong). This is a subtle cult org. crime that *will* be addressed, eventually. Once you are labelled as a "negative", you either bend to the pressure or remain content being on the fringes, eyed suspiciously, and never being fully accepted (basically, uncomfortable and unhappy due to peer pressure).

More power to her, indeed. I, too, hope she gets out. If I could, I would shake her hand and give her advice. At the very least, maybe somebody reading this board now, is also in her shoes and can be helped out eventually.


- Hitch

@Hitch=since I still cannot download the videos, what exactly is The Lady in Gray doing that speaks volumes for her individuality?

Thanks to you and holly_golightly for your thoughts on the 300 degrees. I had forgotten reading in the WT that Sensei accepts the degrees on behalf of the SGI membership. More Frames, more justifications.

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First, is there a hidden, esoteric doctrine in SG that even relatively high ranking members dont know about?

Or at the very least a mandate to instill self reproach and eradicate self confidence in all members, no matter well the members perform their assigned tasks?

That getting the task done isnt the goal, its breaking the member's confidence thats the actual goal, and the assigned task is merely a pretext, a set up for shame tripping the member/s?

I don't think we need to be able to point to some SG-specific "doctrine" to this effect, as it is ubiquitous among cults:

The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

- Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

- Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

- The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

- The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

- The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

- The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

- The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

- The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

- Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

- The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

- The group is preoccupied with making money.

- Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

- Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

- The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. [www.csj.org]

And from [www.enlightened-spirituality.org]:

Dr. Arthur Deikman, a spiritually minded psychiatrist and cult-expert in northern California, has identified...

"four basic behaviors found in extreme form in [destructive] cults: compliance with the group, dependence on a leader, devaluing the outsider, and avoiding dissent. These behaviors are not distinct and independent but interrelated. In my view, they arise in part from what I refer to as the dependency dream, the regressive wish for security that uses the family as a model, creating an authoritarian leadership structure (the parent) and a close-knit, exclusive group (the children).... A continuum of [cultic] behavior exists, from the People’s Temple... to rigid religious groups, corporate cultures, professional societies, [and certain political parties and nations!] and ordinary us/them categories."

Warning Signs of Dysfunctional Cults

* Excessive demands on the time and energy of the group members. Slave labor, overwork, or sleep/food deprivation demanded on behalf of the group as proof of loyalty. Obsessive scheduling, such that every moment of one’s waking life is controlled by the group.

* Craving for followers; seductive recruiting strategies or heavy-handed tactics of proselytizing or conversion (including “love bombing,” that is, showering prospective recruits with friendly, but strategic, attention).

* A hidden agenda that becomes known to a group member only after s/he is heavily invested in the cult membership. ("President Ikeda is the new JEEEEZIS!!!")

* Intimidating indoctrination procedures that psychologically break a person down (suppressing old behaviors, attitudes, and relationships) so that s/he can be rebuilt according to the group’s ideal of a docile, unquestioning, compliant member.

* Trapping or holding onto members. People should be able to leave the group at any time for any reason without fear of damnation, reprisal, scorn, or being pursued or shunned by cult members.

* Turning cult members into watched objects who have no privacy in their solitary behavior or relationships with others. Manipulative system of rewards and punishments. Totalitarian structure of permission and non-permission regarding basic behaviors including personal hygiene, interpersonal communication, etc. Orwellian system of informers who convey information to leaders about persons behind their back. Machiavellian techniques of setting members against each other or against outsiders.

* Ganging up on individual members to criticize or humiliate or coerce them; “working on them” to violate their own sense of conscience or autonomy. Brainwashing or mind-control techniques or high-pressure group dynamics coercing members to conform to a worldview, agenda, or code of conduct. Physical or psychological violence. Giving and withholding of love or praise as a manipulation technique. Frequent testing of members for loyalty, commitment, or obedience.

* Blind obedience to harmful or unwise directives from on high. Abusive, domineering top-dog leadership. In healthy groups, the leader(s) functions more as an advisor and inspirer rather than as “control freak” dictating how members should think and act. Members are never threatened or subordinated in ruthless, bullying manner. There may be a period of time where an authentic spiritual director/abbot/guru needs to test the disciple, but this is done within the overall context of genuine love, trust, and emotional safety, not as a power-trip by the leader. Any tests must be for the sole purpose of strengthening the student’s own skills and virtues, not demanding obedience and loyalty.

* Suppression of dissent, doubt, critical thinking, sincere questions, discussion or independent judgment. Regarding of leader’s or sacred text’s teachings as infallible. Attachment to doctrinal certainty. Members should be free to follow their own informed reason and moral conscience in preference to the directives of the leader, group or text. Yet healthy spirituality also challenges one to develop the conscience to its utmost through ongoing learning and maturation.

* Irrational thinking or magical thinking. Among healthy, empowering groups, supra-rational thinking and use of paradox is fine, in accordance with the mature mystical traditions as found within circles of Christianity, Judaism (Hasidism), Islam (Sufism), Vedanta, Buddhism and Taoism. These authentic mystical traditions are based in rationality and proceed from that into the "trans-mental" realm. By contrast, in unhealthy groups, there appears to be very little rationality anywhere in their attitudes and behavior, and the group dynamics are rife with dysfunctional thinking.

* A “uni-level” obsession with health and wealth on the material plane (Richard Anthony).

* Crusading agenda to save the world or convert all souls to “the true way.”

* Chronic group feeling of righteous anger, revenge, turmoil, anxiety, shame, guilt, self-pity, fear, despair, mindless euphoria, ego-excitement, adrenaline rushes, self-inflated fervor or futuristic anticipation.

* Proud feeling of being the chosen people, of possessing the exclusive truth or means of salvation, or being superior to those outside the group. Heavily polarized “us-them,” adversarial thinking, projection of one’s own shadow qualities onto others, seeing outsiders as homogeneously negative, devoid of positive qualities (“they” are “bad” and “we” are “good”). Rigid boundaries and isolation between insiders and outsiders. Petty criticism, stereotyping or devaluing of outsiders.

* A chronic need to find and persistently maintain enemies inside or outside the group. Targeting or isolating of anyone inside or outside the group as a source of evil or contamination or “bad energy.” Negative thought-forms aimed at others. (The priesthood, anyone?? Danto members??)

* Expensive entry fees or initiations. In fact, the less the group has to do with money, the better. The greatest spiritual masters charge no money whatsoever for sharing their love and guidance. Their work is supported via voluntary donations from those who can easily afford it or are inspired to give without being asked. Beware groups that demand from members much or all of their assets. (Presently some 500 cults in the United States, most of them Christian, demand all assets from members.) A small tithe isn’t necessarily exploitative if all monies serve reasonable purposes and can be accounted for upon request.

* Cultivation in members any attitude of childish dependency upon exploitative, authoritarian leaders who require absolute, exclusive devotion.

* Intellectual parochialism or isolation from other worldviews; censorship or control of what people read; prevention of studying sacred texts from other traditions or visiting other genuine spiritual masters. A healthy spiritual group is open to spiritual truth from whatever source, and knows how to distinguish wise from unwise teachings.

* Orwellian double-speak (Deikman: “manipulating language to suggest a meaning and value opposite to the real situation”). Codewords or buzzwords. Excessive use of slogans to bypass critical thinking. Manipulative rhetoric based on cunning or emotionalism. Reinvention of language—e.g., excessive amount of jargon—to widen gulf between insiders and outsiders and exert mind-control. Adopting new names and titles for members can also be suspect, especially when it is done to create insider group-dynamics.

* Beware enforcement of conformity in apparel and external behavior.

* Legalistic obsession with myriad rules. Enslavement to authoritarian, military-style organization and procedure.

* Obsession with invisible or other-worldly entities or forces other than God.

*snork* I don't know why they need the "other than God" in there - that "God" concept seems to fit *perfectly* with the other things which are apparently *not* fit targets for obsession O_O



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2013 08:06AM by TaitenAndProud.

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Shavoy
@Hitch=since I still cannot download the videos, what exactly is The Lady in Gray doing that speaks volumes for her individuality?

Sorry about that. She's a younger (20's?), short haired brunette, asian (?) lady in a packed Gohonzon (magic chanting) room full of members. The stage is full of a dozen or more ladies all leading a pre-school-like cult exercise-dance to incredibly asinine music, while the whole room imitates their movements. It really is hard to describe adequately, because I've never seen anything like it my entire life. It's like preschoolers who have just discovered use of their fingers and have found joy in the different kinds of ways they can move them.

The lady is the ONLY one in the entire room who isn't participating. In fact, she looks downright embarrassed and disgusted by what's going on all around her. Very uncomfortable and not a smile on her face, unlike the rest of the room. She looks like she wants to go crawl under a rock. It's because she stood up like everybody else. Like I said, I've been in her shoes. It helps if you don't even stand up to join them half-way. I always remained sitting and found it more comfortable (and rebelliously enabling) to endure those moments of cult insanity.



- Hitch



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2013 08:23AM by Hitch.

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I had forgotten reading in the WT that Sensei accepts the degrees on behalf of the SGI membership. More Frames, more justifications.

Yeah, well - I never got one of them to display on MY wall >:(

If he wants to do something "on my behalf", why does he never ask what *I* want to be done??

It's kind of obnoxious when someone does whatever he pleases and then says, "Oh, that was for YOU" as if I'm supposed to think differently about it/as if that makes it somehow different from just him doing whatever he pleases *eye roll*

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corboy
Maybe (we need some former high ranking insiders who can tell us if I am taking this too far) --Maybe there are instructions given to find something, anything, to make a member feel shame, so that he or she can be shifted off balance.

The Japanese WD (Women's Division) were the queens of this kind of stuff. Info. was usually obtained either by a) direct, unannounced, spy, home-invasion-visitations or b) by "confidential" personal guidance sessions with senior "leaders." The Japanese WD are the proverbial flies-on-the-wall for the gakkai cult org.. They *live* for this kind of stuff and all the juicy gossip that goes with it. They were the "go to" gakkai gestapo with the dirty trick information bag.

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corboy
A shame ridden person is more amenable to indoctrination. And in a group already bound by shame, a confident person would create discord, remind them of what they have lost.

Robbing someone of confidence and getting them to feel shame would boost the group solidarity.

I've found the gakkai cult org. merely to be an extension of the Japanese mindset and group herd mentality. The cult org. just takes it much, much further and uses it in completely evil and controlling ways.


- Hitch

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holly_golightly

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Hitch
You can either laugh, cry or give respect after watching the following clip [www.youtube.com].

I give my respect to the lady in the front, wearing a gray t-shirt, off to the left side of the room when the camera pans around (she shows up a few times, at 0:25 seconds, 1:13, and 2:14 minute marks, before they stop including her in the pan around).

I know exactly how she feels. Bless her heart. My respect goes out to her for having the courage to not partake in the behavior regressing and thought-stopping cult org. rituals. There's always one or two in the crowd (thank goodness).



- Hitch

I agree about the lady in gray - Respect due! It takes a lot of inner strength not to go along with the herd. Hope she gets out.

Holy macarena batman! That video clip makes Assembly of God holy rollers speaking in tongues and writhing on the floor look, well, ah, almost normal?

I may laugh in between cringes now, but if I had to actually be there, I would probably commit hare-kiri (ritual suicide by disembowlment), because it would be less painful than that horrible song (and dance)!

Kudos to the unintimidated lady in the grey shirt for not being a sheeple and following the crazed herd. I think she was a guest, and not a member, or there would have been more direct pressure on her to conform. The camera lackey finally wised up and kept her disgrunted face out of the shot.

Spartacus