The Master & Disciple (I like the term, "follower" better, too) thing is a significant cognitive dissonance trigger for many members. In fact, that's precisely why the cult org. rewrote history (again) and changed it to the less loaded baggage terms "Mentor-Disciple." For most of my time in, it was always referred to as "Master." I remember well, because it often caused me to physically wince. It caused too many problems for the cult org., so they changed it to the softer "mentor" label.

It still causes problems, too, because here's the gakkai cult org.'s special (and official) kool-aid video dealing with it, [www.youtube.com].

That gentleman, doth protest too much. His over-the-top affirmation efforts merely detract from the credibility that he is so desperately trying to convey.

[i1.cpcache.com] "Sensei nara, dou suru deshou?"


- Hitch



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2013 02:47PM by Hitch.

Quote
Hitch
The Master & Disciple (I like the term, "follower" better, too) thing is a significant cognitive dissonance trigger for many members. In fact, that's precisely why the cult org. rewrote history (again) and changed it to the less loaded baggage terms "Mentor-Disciple." For most of my time in, it was always referred to as "Master." I remember well, because it often caused me to physically wince. It caused too many problems for the cult org., so they changed it to the softer "mentor" label.

It still causes problems, too, because here's the gakkai cult org.'s special (and official) kool-aid video dealing with it, [www.youtube.com].

That gentleman, doth protest too much. His over-the-top affirmation efforts merely detract from the credibility that he is so desperately trying to convey.

[i1.cpcache.com] "Sensei nara, dou suru deshou?"


- Hitch

Notice the way he slightly laughs at himself when he recounts asking his senior leaders perfectly reasonable questions. That's what I used to do myself when I was at the height of my indoctronation. During that time I thought it was amusing that I previously didn't understand why Ikeda was so revered in the organisation. Little did I know that I was slowly having every aspect of my independent thinking supressed.

In reality, the concept is more like Master/"Slave" psychologically and economically.

How many SGI members do years of unpaid labor for SGI, which is worth countless billions of dollars?
SGI has billions in the private asset holdings of the Ikeda family, all made off the backs of unpaid labor of SGI followers.

What is unpaid labor called?

Definition of SLAVE
2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence


So in reality its Master/"slave".
Then it became Master/Disciple, which sounds more biblical, like Ikeda is Jesus, and the SGI followers are his "Disciples".

Then for western corporate whitewash propaganda, SGI call it Mentor/Disciple.
Notice SGI kept the word Disciple, as that means a follower who does NOT QUESTION the Master.

In reality, if you are doing UNPAID LABOR for a multibillion dollar private company controlled by the Ikeda family called SGI, that is Master/"slave".

With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

Except if you run a cult. IMO one sign of a cult (or at very least a seriously screwed up business or relationship) is one in which the powerholder shifts the feeling of responsibility/accountability away from him or herself onto those who dont possess sufficient agencyl--the underlings.

Responsiblity is not satisfying unless one possesses the following sources of agency/power

*Respect - those affected by your work not only consent but support your efforts
*Resources -- needed to complete tasks to satisfaction of all concerned
*Respite (Rest and recreation so that one isnt living or working under hectic pressure.)

Further reflections on the Master Slave situation

Unlike cults where one isnt told up front what one's obligations will be, in adult consensual kink community, the master slave (Dom/Submissive) relationship is consciously negotiated. People voice their expectations to each other before negotiating the scene and what will be transacted.

I have not engaged in any of this, but did a bit of reading because I was curious to see what if any differences there were between cults that generate harm reports and the BDSM kink community where one rarely hears of trouble.

Another difference between the adult consensual kink community vs cults/abusive relationships is that the master/powerholder is the one who carries the burden of responsibility. The master is expected to make sure that the underlings/ emerge unharmed in the long term. --

Let us repeat: In the kink scene, its the master who carries the burden of responsibility.

By contrast in cults, its the submissives who are guilt tripped into feeling responsible if anything goes wrong.

BDSM Kink: Masters have responsiblity as well as power. It is proverbial that there are very few willing to enter the master role.

Cults/High demand relationships: Masters get adulation and are protected from consequences of wrongdoing--its the submissives/slaves/underlings who give up personal agency yet are made to feel responsible for the master's wrongdoing.

So in the cult world, we have lots of people who are in the master role, seeking more and yet more disciples onto whom they can shift the onus of responsibility

--

from a book I found at a garage sale.

Its title is Painfully Obvious: An Irreverent and Unauthorized Manual for Leather/SM by Robert Davolt, published in 2003

(SM means sado masochism)

Mr Devolt writes:

Quote:

Slave, boy or--puppy--a submissive's capability, strength, intellect and wits are submitted to a master to make the master stronger and more capable. Submissive therefore does not mean inferior.

Considering that a slave reflects his training (and therefore his owner) to the rest of the community, he is also a walking billboard displaying the triumphs or failure of the master.

The idea that a slave is a worthless piece of trash does ont reflect well on any master that would own such an object.

Quoted by Corboy from Painfully Obvious, page 60

One man who writes a general relationship advice column has crafted what is termed
the 'Campsite Rule' for older or more powerful persons who have younger lovers.

Rules for use of a campsite are: Leave a place in as good condition or better condition than before you camped there.

The socially more powerful partner should leave his or her partner as well off socially and emotionally, or better off, socially and emotionally, than before the relationship began.

Anyone or any group claiming to oversee spiritual development should be held to the campsite rule as well.

Very interesting, corboy - you devil!

Even when they changed it from "master/disciple" to "mentor/disciple", I always recoiled from the usage - it didn't matter how they sugarcoated it, it didn't suit me. One time, my mother, trying to find some common ground, I guess, with me-the-Buddhist said, "So you're a disciple?" I immediately gasped, "Of COURSE not!!"

You'll notice if you watch the old "Kung Fu" tv series, which actually presents REAL Buddhism quite adequately, the young acolyte Caine isn't expected to just accept things or do as he's told. His teachers prompt him for questions and then guide him toward understanding. For example, one time when he encounters the blind elder Master Po:

Master Po: [after easily defeating the boy in combat] Ha, ha, never assume because a man has no eyes he cannot see. Close your eyes. What do you hear?
Young Caine: I hear the water, I hear the birds.
Master Po: Do you hear your own heartbeat?
Young Caine: No.
Master Po: Do you hear the grasshopper that is at your feet?
Young Caine: [looking down and seeing the insect] Old man, how is it that you hear these things?
Master Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?

Very gentle, simple teaching designed to guide the young student on expanding his mind and addressing his assumptions and self-imposed limits.

Something you won't find in the SGI *ahem*

Excellent points and perfect analogies, Corboy & Anticult. "Slave" is definitely a much more appropriate term.

This is one of my favorite quotes, that I've shared before, which sums up perfectly what I saw in the YMD
and how people were treated:

Quote:
Elie Wiesel
"A slave runs. And we were exemplary slaves, therefore you had to run."

Getting screamed at, putting fear and subjugation into your heart, and running to obey and please your "Masters", is exactly what took place.


- Hitch

Master Po didn't need to buy 300 cheesy fake "degrees" to try to get some respect either!

Master Po also didn't run a private for-profit Ikeda family corporation the size of Walmart.

"Master" in those terms, is a leader who has "mastered" his discipline, like a martial arts master, or anyone who is a master in their field.

But with SGI, Master is used a technique to demand the followers give blind obedience to the SGI Org, and do their unpaid slave-labor, and to not think, and just chant harder.

and of course the Mentor/Disciple "union" thing, is a psychological technique to get SGI followers to FUSE THEIR IDENTITY with the mental concept of Ikeda and SGI.
This is why years later, former SGI people still have Ikeda in their minds/brain. They FUSED him in there, with all of the psychological techniques used by SGI on them.

It looks to be similar tech used by most modern personality 'cults' like Byron Katie.

IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever [forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
The Anticult
In reality, the concept is more like Master/"Slave" psychologically and economically.

How many SGI members do years of unpaid labor for SGI, which is worth countless billions of dollars?
SGI has billions in the private asset holdings of the Ikeda family, all made off the backs of unpaid labor of SGI followers.

What is unpaid labor called?

Definition of SLAVE
2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence


So in reality its Master/"slave".
Then it became Master/Disciple, which sounds more biblical, like Ikeda is Jesus, and the SGI followers are his "Disciples".

Then for western corporate whitewash propaganda, SGI call it Mentor/Disciple.
Notice SGI kept the word Disciple, as that means a follower who does NOT QUESTION the Master.

In reality, if you are doing UNPAID LABOR for a multibillion dollar private company controlled by the Ikeda family called SGI, that is Master/"slave".

YES!

Gakkai Cult Org. slave labor = $oka-han outside of cult venues, standing around in parking lots, on street corners, late into the dark evening hours, with nothing more than a flashlight (if you were lucky to have brought your own) - sometimes in dangerous areas / Gajokai staffing cult buildings, overnight when I was in, answering the telephone, doing all the building errands and maintenance / Byakuren, serving as door flowers, serving tea, water, hot hand towels to leaders, tending to the donation envelopes / Ordinary members who "volunteer" to clean the cult buildings, serve as unofficial gakkai-mobile transportation for half a dozen people at a time, to and from cult venues, long distances away / & the list goes on.

Incidentally, I knew of a lady in the motherland (Japanese WD) who was a hardcore, really gung-ho, Ikeda devotee who managed to land a paid position with the $oka Gakkai in her area. She cleaned cult HQ bathrooms, polished cult HQ butsudans, vacuumed cult HQ Gohozon rooms and halls, wiped cult HQ tables, served cult HQ tea, hot towels to cult leaders, and routinely tended to cult paperwork office duties. Guess how much she earned from the multi-billionaire Ikeda cult org., ... legal minimum wage, not a Yen more. In fact, she also had to have a second job, working at a food factory to make ends meet for Cousin Rufus. She also volunteered (no pay) to deliver the cult propaganda newspaper to her area every morning around 4 or 5 a.m.. Doing so also entailed the responsibility that she had to go around to collect the subscription fees for the cult org. every month. If for some reason, members didn't pay up on time (or not at all), guess who had to come up with the $-money-$, ... yep, *HER!*. Still had faith like a sparkling diamond for The Dear Leader, though.

UNPAID LABOR AND THEN SOME, TOO!!


- Hitch

Quote
holly_golightly

Quote
Hitch
The Master & Disciple (I like the term, "follower" better, too) thing is a significant cognitive dissonance trigger for many members. In fact, that's precisely why the cult org. rewrote history (again) and changed it to the less loaded baggage terms "Mentor-Disciple." For most of my time in, it was always referred to as "Master." I remember well, because it often caused me to physically wince. It caused too many problems for the cult org., so they changed it to the softer "mentor" label.

It still causes problems, too, because here's the gakkai cult org.'s special (and official) kool-aid video dealing with it, [www.youtube.com].

That gentleman, doth protest too much. His over-the-top affirmation efforts merely detract from the credibility that he is so desperately trying to convey.

[i1.cpcache.com] "Sensei nara, dou suru deshou?"


- Hitch

Notice the way he slightly laughs at himself when he recounts asking his senior leaders perfectly reasonable questions. That's what I used to do myself when I was at the height of my indoctronation. During that time I thought it was amusing that I previously didn't understand why Ikeda was so revered in the organisation. Little did I know that I was slowly having every aspect of my independent thinking supressed.

I've saw many people like this in the USA gakkai cult org., especially white, middle-class, caucasians (usually married to a Japanese, but not in all cases), who gave in after years of being resistant or noncommittal. I remember one guy who gave in so much to the kool-aid that although he never learned how to correctly pronounce Ikeda's name (he always pronounced it with a long "i" and long "e"), he fully embraced, accepted in his heart and spoke glowingly of The Dear Leader, practically over night. I was shocked by how quickly he turned a complete 180 and suddenly became a district leader. Prior to that, he had always been a normal, nice and level-headed guy. After the "Master" kool-aid cup, he was just like everyone else (fully assimilated and integrated into the cult borg collective, speaking the cult-speak expertly, too). Like I said, it was a dramatic and sudden change. I think I was the only one who even noticed it and was bothered by it.

Thought reform, when you see it take place like that, right in front of your eyes, is a scary thing. He remained like that until the day he died. Mother, of course, always practiced and the son eventually became a hardcore member. There were two kids and as far as I know, until today, the daughter has resisted the kool-aid. Still, 3 out of 4 for the cult org., that ain't bad (unfortunately).


- Hitch

Interesting research coming out of Switzerland says that it is the FATHER's attitude toward religion that determines the children's attitude. The mother's attitude is either not influential or *negatively* influential. In other words, if the mother is devout while the father abstains, MORE of the children will abstain than if the mother is lukewarm! Given that all the modern religions are heavily female-dominated, this is a terrible forecast for their existence. Already, different surveys have revealed that young men in particular avoid religions - the Mormon Church, in particular, is seeing an unprecedented exodus of young men, to the point that there aren't enough left for the remaining young women to be able to have the "church-approved" kind of wedding!

In my experience, the SGI was likewise female-dominated. All the pioneers I knew were women. If anyone is interested in this research, here is an article to get you started: Swiss Study on Father Effect

And since I referenced the Mormon situation: The Reality of What's Going On in LDS

There's no reason to think that the SGI should be either significantly different or immune to the forces adversely affecting Christian membership across the US and beyond. The fact that, in 2007, the SGI tried to implement a "membership cards" system with a membership card for every member AND a membership card for every person in a member's household, including those who did not practice and had never joined or shown any interest in the SGI, speaks volumes to the fact that the SGI's membership is collapsing and they are trying to get creative to prop it up, however artificially.

I hope Ikeda ends up bankrupt. I know that's mean, but it's also cause and effect.