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I disagree. Many SGI members and every single leader above Chapter Chief is pernicious. - Nichijew

I was a YWD HQ chief, Nichijew. And I can tell you for a FACT that I never held *ANY* malevolent intent, I never deliberately misled or pressured anyone, and I wanted to help people. I wanted the position because from there I could help more people.

What does this revelation do to your theory? Am I obviously lying, because no one who isn't evil could ever manage to be promoted to HQ-level leadership? I was a Chapter YWD chief for a while, too O_O

How do you think your blanket accusations make me feel? You've *never* met me, you know *nothing* about me, and yet here you are, declaring that I was "pernicious." Is that fair? Is that honest? Is that helpful, to just *assign* derogatory labels to people and dismiss them with a wave of the hand?

Is this kind? Is it magnanimous and benevolent? Or is it more like the SGI's attitude toward those who are "taiten", that they're all evil and overwhelmed by fundamental darkness and short-sighted and foolish? That they want only to destroy the beautiful unity of the most family-like organization in the world??

As we all know, Taiten, youth division leaders are not real SGI leaders.

Spart, sansho goma was an inside joke. You weren't supposed to take it seriously.

Youth division leaders may not be REAL SGI leaders, but if I have understood Spartacus's memoirs to this point, it sounds like he was, at the very least, a Chapter MD chief, and I don't think HE sounds particularly "pernicious".

Now what's YOUR story, Frederick? I notice you're freshly minted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2013 08:37AM by TaitenAndProud.

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Frederick
Spart, sansho goma was an inside joke. You weren't supposed to take it seriously.

Seriously Frederick, are you kidding me? How would you know? Were you there? Were you a senior leader in Texas during the early seventies? Where and when did you ever get the idea that it was a joke?

Sansho Goma was no joke, Sir! Guess you didn't see the distorted faces of those Japanese Women's Division senior leaders or hear the tone and timbre of their admonshing voices. Guessing again that you didn't know members who were drummed out of the Sgcult by leaders whose attitudes were "screw compassion, we've got power and "a good leader makes their members resentful". You obviously didn't have to suffer the punishment and ostrasization heaped upon MY head by my SGcult senior leaders for "ruining" one of "their" kotekitai jr. leaders (as if it was my fault they had to run her out of town on a rail).

No one was laughing. Sansho goma (have sexual relations with another member) was considered a serious offense to be avoided at all costs. Any discerning up and coming leader knew getting caught having sex would cost any future advancements up the SGcult leadership ladder, and would also include various degrees of subtle punishments for the offense.

Not very long after that incident, I did escape their cult clutches and left the organization and my stinking senior leader position (slipped away in the middle of the night and disappeared to another state for a while so SGcult HQ couldn't once again track me down and brow beat me into submission, forcing me to return against my will as had happened before when I tried to leave). SGI is by definition A CULT !!! Its no joke.

Spartacus

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(slipped away in the middle of the night and disappeared to another state for a while so SGcult HQ couldn't once again track me down and brow beat me into submission, forcing me to return against my will as had happened before when I tried to leave)

If you do not finish your memoirs, I will track you down myself and do terrible things to you!! >:(

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the punishment and ostrasization heaped upon MY head by my SGcult senior leaders for "ruining" one of "their" kotekitai jr. leaders (as if it was my fault they had to run her out of town on a rail).

That reminds me of what our local pioneer (we had only one) told me in rather hushed tones, about how there had been a YMD HQ leader who'd gotten his girlfriend, a YWD, pregnant. And dumped her. She got herself an abortion, and he was immediately squiring another YWD around, to all the activities, right in the first YWD's face. So the adult leaders stripped him of his title, demoted him to a general member, never to hold another leadership position again, apparently. Beyond that, I can't remember if a man from the other HQ (there were 2 in Minneapolis/St. Paul) was pointed out to me (someone I didn't know) or if he was no longer around - it was a long time ago, and the point wasn't WHO he was, but, rather, WHAT he'd done - and how he would never recover from the stigma.

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TaitenAndProud
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Shall we talk about the Inquisition now? That's WAY worse than anything the SG has ever done! But how is that relevant to what's going on right now? How are reports of bad stuff that happened before many of those reading the reports were even born going to help people get out right now? Two young women locally just received an award for rushing in to stop a Christian man from killing his two children - he was yelling that they were all "going to Jesus" and had already stabbed the boy. And so what if SG members are "coached" on how to do "shakubuku"? It's no different from how Evangelical Christians are coached on how to introduce their friends to jesus, you know. "Lead off with 'Friend, are you saved?' Follow up with 'Have you heard the Good News?'" That's what organized religions do. Except for Buddhism - Buddhism isn't known for that. But we aren't talking Buddhism here, are we?

WHY is there so much problem in acknowledging that there are decent, nice people who happen to be in thrall to the SGI's manipulative con? How does being a victim make them guilty? I don't understand.

I thought that same thing when I'd be looking up the organization online. "How was this all relevant to the current situation?" Especially since this was so far removed from my location and experience. It may not seem to be relevant at the time but glossing over of those details and that history like I did, wasn't a good thing.

I'm finding that even that kind of information can serve us as well. I will take the word of a true news source than a sensationalist tabloid, and I am sure I am not the only one who feels that way either. It would have been a lot easier to find had I not had to go through all the obviously extreme stories that were nothing like my current experience (at the time).

There is probably a reason those videos and news articles have not been taken down -- because they confuse the situation and people don't know where to look, so they give up and go along anyway because the picture being painted online is a vastly confusing one. Say if you were to look up for example, the issue of fluoridation of the water. If you look online you will be confronted by a confusing picture. Between the conspiracy theorists' view of the issue and medical doctors, people's own experiences, it can be a daunting task to find any truth. What is the truth? No one really knows, it's all theoretical right now just as is the climate change issue. Does that make me wrong for not wanting to look through all the garbage and just trust my dentist, whom I feel is the only expert I can trust currently on the subject? I would say no, it seems like that is completely up for interpretation. What works? I feel other people's experiences are helpful no matter how they differ, they still should all count.

I don't know why there is a feeling that all people who've been in the organization are completely screwed up permanently. I can see if they were in for over 20 years and did absolutely everything they were supposed to do, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable painting everyone the same way. I would rather take people on a case by case basis. It isn't hard to test someone who has either been in or is still in. All you have to do is slight "sensei" (say he's a crappy writer and TNHR sucks, for example) or the organization (they're a cult) and see what happens. If they go off on you like has been reported, you're probably not dealing with a sane individual and should probably stay away.

I am saying all of this because I don't like the idea of being slighted for having been part of the organization at one time even though I am no longer in. I also don't like to think of myself as beign victimized by the organization because I went along with what I did on my own, no one forced me to do anything. Yes there was abuse from some leaders, not at all helpful "guidance", but I am no victim. I did this to myself. Maybe that is what makes me feel I am different.

Your last post just now made me think of that is probably just another way to manipulate the female members to not have relations with the male members with an "or this could happen to you!" scare message. All in the name of harmony, which is understandable but they could at least be honest about it if this is the case. I think I hate that kind of manipulation the most. It's treating adults as children, as if they can't handle the truth and they need to be coddled. This adds more support for the argument that they keep you in an infantile state though.

@frederick: Hello and Welcome! I'm happy that you've made the first step to the other side of the fence and every post and aspect is so helpfull to me!

The sansho goma term is completely new to me, I've not heard before but I've noticed some pretty subtle manipulating and controlling techniques from the leadership (higher ups ) about peoples sexuality. A districts leaders couple in Trets was treated like pubescent kids and at that time, it was 2011, I for myself had a lot of sneers about it. There I found their behavior, the slights and tears, I thought it's just ridiculous. With hindsight I can see that the cult handled their sexuality privacy as a menace to the brainwashing the sheep flock. We own your lifes including sexuality.
Your aspect of ' not take that for serious' is a good one. The couple in Trets could have had packed their lagguage and say Bye -bye, but they had not done so- instead of going to a bedandbreakfast in a nearby village they had gone for guidance to their oppressors. I mean, they had wanted only a room for themselves, at least they had paid for it and the house was not full at that course.

The $cientology Cult has its "Operating Thetan" (OT) levels (I-VIII), [en.wikipedia.org] and ...

The $oka Gakkai International (USA-branch) has its "YOUTH!" 2030 "Buddha System Levels (I-IV) -

I. Hope - is just like a flower [www.youtube.com]

II. World Peace - we all "own" it [www.youtube.com]

III. Friendship - true friendship is a relationship [www.youtube.com]

IV. Courage - a powerful asset [www.youtube.com]

"Chant Fast, Chant Strong! Learn the system."

And it sounds just as meaningless.

On that note:
Brainwashed "YOUTH!" self-tozan to Gakkai Cult HQ. ($oka Bunka Kaikan under construction, mentioned in my earlier post) in Shinanomachi-Shinjuku and recites a hardcore cultic poem [www.youtube.com], overflowing with cult-speak, YMD classic cult behavior, speech inflection and mannerisms.

Quintessential Gakkai Cult YMD indoctrination (the above poem).

KANPAI!! >> XL Ice Cold Glass of Extra-Sweetened Gakkai Kool-Aid << KANPAI!! "Refreshing, indeed!!"




- Hitch