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sixtyseven
The woman in the middle, don't know who she is, looks rather unaffected by Sensei's charisma.

[forum.culteducation.com]

That picture shows pretty well the Ikeda that I remember seeing in person --> a short, marshmallowy, greasy haired guy who could pretty much blend in to a sea of Japanese salarymen and just disappear. The guy also exuded none of the warmth and inviting feelings that you'd normally expect from a "religious" figure; in fact, it was exactly the opposite, a feeling of coldness and distance. (Oh, I remember, he's got short arms and pudgy fingers, too.)

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rattyboy
That comment about the 'experience video' posted recently ending with a Gakkai 'Bye-Bye' might seem like a strange detail to point out, but I agree. That cute sing-songy delivery has the SGI TM (trademark) on it. Even if the individual is inherently nice and cute and sincere, there's something about it that smacks as disingenuous .

Bingo! That is the typical gakkai cult YWD trademark obligatory and feigned sign-off that you hear from all the automatons at the end of their "experiences" or as you exit the doors leaving any of the kaikan venues. It's 100% hollow, a reflex, and done as natural and second nature as breathing for them.

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rattyboy
"Refreshed" after FNCC or what have you. It always sounded to me like they took a shower with some brand new shampoo. All that dirt of critical thinking washed out of the pores. The chanting and average SGI activities alone obviously couldn' t
be powerful enough to keep you going. What an opportunity to do shakabuku at the airport and on the plane, before and after the FNCC 'refresher'. Being a world traveler like your mentor.
Sorry about my writing of little snippets. The feelings about this shape my delivery, I think.

Perfect analogy. It got me thinking, I never felt "refreshed" after any of the meetings that I ever attended. They should have broke out the industrial strength scrubbers for me.


- Hitch

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the typical gakkai cult YWD trademark obligatory and feigned sign-off that you hear from all the automatons at the end of their "experiences

I learned early to do this - no one had to instruct me. It was just the norm. Finish the experience, then in a voice several notches higher and louder, as if you're excited to get out of there, "Thank you very much!!" Also, at meetings, if someone started rambling or was talking too long or about something you wanted to shut down, the protocol was to burst into applause and, again, in that higher, louder voice, announce "Thank you very much!!"

Something I observed early on still haunts me. I practiced for 5 years as YWD in Minneapolis, then married and moved to St. Thomas. After a few months there, I was too busy to do any SGI activities, so I practiced on my own. I was cut off from everyone I'd practiced with before. After 3.5 years there, we moved to my parents' home in Kansas for about 2 months before moving to North Carolina. It was in Kansas that I exchanged my Nikken Gohonzon for the SGI green-bordered one (which I really think is prettier, but that's the only distinction for me). While there, I met a woman who'd been practicing about 30 years. She was from Kansas, but was visiting for a coupla months, her visit coinciding with mine. She was living in this motel. When she joined the SGI, she was in her teens, a beautiful blonde swimmer and model. She was then living in Colorado, I think. How she met her husband was interesting - he was YMD, and she and another YWD were on their way to an activity when she realized they were passing by his apartment, so they knocked on the door to invite him to come along with them. At that moment, he knew he would marry her, because he had been chanting for a beautiful blonde to knock on his door. On her way to an activity, she was in a left turn lane preparing to make her turn, when this older man made a last-minute decision to turn left, and he ran right into her. She was injured, but didn't realize it due to being in shock. It turned out that her head was fractured in 7 places. You'll recall the part in Nichiren's writings where he says that anyone who betrays (him) will have their heads broken in 7 pieces. She tormented herself terribly over this - "What must I have done in a previous lifetime??" She was truly in anguish. From that accident, her life careened downhill. Her jaw "chalked" and had to be removed, and was replaced with one of her ribs. It was too big for her face and changed her looks - when I met her, she was a rather average looking middle-aged woman (about 45). I saw a picture of her when she was young - I wouldn't have known it was the same woman. She had trachea problems too and had to be intubated before anesthesia - I'm a little fuzzy on that part. She chanted *endlessly*. She was in chronic pain and completely disabled. When I met her, she was preparing for her final appeal. She had been given guidance early on to NOT take her case to court and sue for damages, because of some gosho where Nichiren says "Do not take this matter to court." One of the HQ leaders, in fact, came out with an announcement at a Kosen Rufu Gongyo (the largest monthly meeting) that that gosho thing was about a specific situation and not a blanket statement - where there is wrong, members should be free to seek redress in the courts just like anyone else. So many older members had been giving her "guidance" not to take it to court, you see, and citing that gosho. She was a wreck! Can you imagine, this kind of pressure when you are already in constant pain and having surgeries??

But at each trial (she's been through the original and then 2 appeals), the jury simply did not accept that so much damage could have resulted from that accident, immediately after which she appeared *fine*! She was laughing and wondering if they could still make it to the activity on time! She told me about how she'd gotten guidance earlier that year (this was the summer of '95) from a leader visiting from Kansai. Ever-victorious Kansai - you remember O_O

She said that, when she told him her story, he jumped to his feet and exclaimed, "You so inju-ed - no money????" He couldn't believe it!

Then she had her final appeal, her last chance to get redress through the courts. And she lost. That was the end. She would not get *any* reimbursement for having her health ruined.

Last I heard, she spent most of her time in bed, chanting.

I could never forget that glaring example that you do NOT get what you chant for. Even when, by all measures, you should be able to get it even WITHOUT chanting! What kept me in was the "promise" that you could get things normally unavailable to you by chanting for them, that you could "bend the rules" of life and the universe, get promoted to the front of the line or the head of the class without having to earn it. How seductive that "promise" was. And how false.

Great story TaitenAndProud, another one spended most of her life in delusion.

I have found that blog, the internet has become a rich cattle range to lure curious or desperate people into the cult. When you do the Chant with Jamie video you have to endure the crescendo chanting until mark 12:00, Voila- here we are. We all know why Jamie hasn't opened the wooden box for the newbies, the kool-aid drink is waiting.
Blog Get rid of despair

We all should teach our children: don't talk to strangers and people who show you a closed wooden box.

Chanting NMRK in the shower, a nichiren monk shaves his head [www.youtube.com].

Whether it be "Myohomama" Jamie (typical deluded looney-tunes gakkai cult member, btw) or the chanting in the shower monk, they all sound insane to me.



- Hitch

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Hitch
Chanting NMRK in the shower, a nichiren monk shaves his head [www.youtube.com].

Whether it be "Myohomama" Jamie (typical deluded looney-tunes gakkai cult member, btw) or the chanting in the shower monk, they all sound insane to me.



- Hitch

The razor fetish monk is AWESOME!!! That pleads for psychiatric treatment, I recommend wholeheartedly.

I never heard the word 'encouragement' used by a member without feeling infantalized. A life coach or affirmation junkie might use that word in the course of an adult conversation, but not with as much syrup as the Jamie video where she makes a fitting transition from the preschool classroom to Munchkinland with her chanting.
(I have to go back to see if she uses that word 'encouragement', but it is the same feeling I get from that one word as when they are trying so hard to pile it on).

That monk in the other video is TOO MUCH. Wow!

- and notice in the Jamie video, especially at the end of her introduction near the one minute mark- she has that mon-o-syll-a-bic del-iv-er-y that the women's division excelled in. Where did that come from?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2013 11:45PM by rattyboy.

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rattyboy
I never heard the word 'encouragement' used by a member without feeling infantalized. A life coach or affirmation junkie might use that word in the course of an adult conversation, but not with as much syrup as the Jamie video where she makes a fitting transition from the preschool classroom to Munchkinland with her chanting.
(I have to go back to see if she uses that word 'encouragement', but it is the same feeling I get from that one word as when they are trying so hard to pile it on).

After a while every point they tried to drill into us just started making me so angry. They've ruined what were once good words and now I can't say things like "experience" without thinking of all this stuff and just getting so angry.

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TaitenAndProud

I could never forget that glaring example that you do NOT get what you chant for. Even when, by all measures, you should be able to get it even WITHOUT chanting! What kept me in was the "promise" that you could get things normally unavailable to you by chanting for them, that you could "bend the rules" of life and the universe, get promoted to the front of the line or the head of the class without having to earn it. How seductive that "promise" was. And how false.

This is such a sad story and awful that she didn't get the proper support and guidance to help her through such a traumatic experience. Those leaders who told her not to go to court because of some line of the gosho should feel ashamed of themselves but they would probably view it through the SGI frame of it being her 'karma', and 'a wonderful opportunity to change things'.

I like your image of 'bending the rules of life' - it is certainly how I used to feel. The other side of the coin is that one starts to feel that they cannot do the simplest of things without chanting, otherwise dreadful things could happen. I got to the stage where I couldn't have the most normal of phone calls or social encounters without feeling like I had to chant first. If, on a rare occasion, I ever had to leave the house without doing morning gongyo first I would feel a dreadful sense of foreboding, as if I was tempting the universe into creating a disaster to punish me. There is so much superstition tied up with the idea of doing morning and evening gongyo/daimoku.

Of course we always used to get the guidance that we should practice this buddhism in a balanced and not a superstitious way, but in the same breath we would then be told an experience about someone who didn't 'prepare properly' (i.e. chant) on the morning of an activity and how this created dreadful negativity and suffering for themselves and others - more double-speak. For a person such as myself, who always tried to do the right thing hearing all this guidance would fill me with fear about the consequences of slacking.

I must say that I am glad to have broken this pattern of thinking, after all there's enough stress in everyday life without creating all these extra dramas!

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I like your image of 'bending the rules of life' - it is certainly how I used to feel. The other side of the coin is that one starts to feel that they cannot do the simplest of things without chanting, otherwise dreadful things could happen.

For me, magical thinking was the last to go. It was the last thread tying me to the SGI and the practice. All these things that tie us to an organization like this reside in our subconscious; once we can *see* them for what they are, they lose their power to drive us around like little Shriner cars. When I faced it, I realized that I was harboring a subconscious delusion that I could not survive without "outside assistance". I *needed* some supernatural crutch or intervention in order to make it in life; I simply could not possibly make it on my own. Without supernatural assistance, not only would I never be successful, but I WOULD DIE.

So unless one has some means of "bending the rules", one will be forever locked out - on the outside looking in - always a bridesmaid, never a bride - etc.

I have to tell you, the few months I practiced with the SGI organization on St. Thomas (US Virgin Islands), they had taken the crazy and put it on steriods! When I got my confirmation that I was accepted to the university there, I immediately found the address of the highest level local leader there - a MD Chapter chief - and sent him off a nice letter of introduction. I was surprised that I never heard back, but you know, people are busy and stuff. When I got there and connected with the members, I found that, just before I sent my letter, he had been home when armed robbers burst in to rob him, and he dropped dead of a heart attack! His family gave him a lovely Christian funeral. o_O

I was typically struck speechless at least one time in every meeting. Here's one of the best ones - one of the local pioneers, an older black lady (no Japanese members there), was telling us how her son had this girlfriend that she did not like. AT ALL. And they had a child together, so she was pretty much stuck with her. Well, sir, she chanted, and found someone in New York who would *LIE* that this young woman had been living there in New York for 2 years (or whatever it took to qualify), and could get her right on welfare and into subsidized housing! Mamasan put her on the next plane out! Yippee - THANK YOU GOHONZON!!!

O_o

At this, I went home and called a Jt. Terr. leader somewhere in the US - can't remember where. Since I'd been a HQ YWD leader, I was already experienced with cold-calling Jt. Terr. leaders. "Is it okay to commit welfare fraud if you get a 'benefit' for doing so?" I asked. The leader sighed heavily and said, "We have so much trouble with this there. We have explained to them over and over and over, and they keep doing things like this."

Here's the best one, though - at a meeting, one leader gave the "experience" of a YMD who had now moved away. Like me, he'd been a student at the University there. Well, he woke up late, and had to rush in to make it to an exam! But he hadn't done gongyo yet! So he decided he was going to do gongyo *no matter what* (ugh - remember THAT??? >.<) . So he did gongyo - this was back in the day when the rompinest gongyo you could do *still* took a half hour - and when he got to class (late), he discovered that the professor was ill, had canceled class, and rescheduled the test! THANK YOU GOHONZON!!!

Was *I* going to count on something stupid like that?? Nuh UH!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2013 05:12AM by TaitenAndProud.

taiten and proud, in regard to your....ahem, these events you posted above, I can relate to the magical thinking of the professor not showing up. I would totally buy that like that member did... One of my biggest hang-ups still is imagining those voices of those still 'in' and what they would say about my objections. That they would try to counter any argument I posted here, or, maybe its that I would like to see them cave in to some points I'm making on this board.. This whole 'win' or 'lose' thing. I'm caring too much about what others think. (Well, if you were still chanting, all this would clear up and you would be happy). But its a cult! (You've been deluded by the devil of the sixth heaven or one of the 8 winds). Well I'm angry about...(Anger is one of the lower worlds!) Yeah, but anger can be medicine, too, by your philosophy (Well, President Ikeda says,or, you are stuck in your head, why don't we do sancho?) No! (You should talk to so and so. They had the same feelings of doubt...only worse and now they're chapter leader and blah blah benefits after challenging negativity).

All that stuff. its a minor nagging, but its there.